When flat rate movers won't answer your calls
145 comments
·May 3, 2025londons_explore
This is exactly what small claims is designed for.
You write the claim, give the evidence, and if they don't show up, you win by default and can hand the judgement to the insurance company to get paid.
teeray
But if they do show up and know how to play the game, buckle up. You’ll be in and out of there for years. The judge will ask you to settle for a fraction of what you’re owed. When you finally do get the judgement, they won’t pay it. Then you need to drag them back to court to get them on a time-payment plan… then they make a few payments, stop paying and move to another state. Then you need to domesticate your judgement in that state, and maybe you can start to think about garnishing wages or drafting from accounts of theirs. By then, you’ve wasted so much time and money, you’re doing it mostly for spite at this point.
Ferret7446
I don't think this applies for small claims? Small claims are a single court session after which a judgement is delivered, though collection is still your problem. Of course, the threshold for small claims is fairly low.
icelancer
When they don't pay the judgment, where do you think you end back up?
lurk2
Are you speaking from experience?
Der_Einzige
Frame them as a “suppressive person” and get the Scientologists going after them. They’ll end up shot in a ditch somewhere and you’ll get the money from their estate. /s
Jtsummers
Small claims courts typically have fairly low limits, much lower than what the insurance might pay for damages to a house or furniture and art (as described in the write up).
You might get the cost of the move restored, but that doesn't cover the cost of repairs, replacements, and restoration.
kevincox
In this specific case it does seem that the insurance company paid for the damages to property, so recovering some or all of the moving costs would be exactly what is needed.
486sx33
Many jurisdictions have doubled their small claims max in the past decade. It’s worth looking into.
bookofjoe
"I was only ruined but twice in my life — once when I lost a lawsuit and when I won one." — Voltaire
akerl_
It's not clear to me that a default judgement in a civil case against a moving company would be something their shipping insurer would pay out.
As is demonstrated in this blog post, the insurer paid out directly on a claim of damages, no civil court required. But above & beyond that, to recoup costs paid for the move based on a dispute about the service rendered, my understanding is that you'd end up with a judgement against the moving company and the same struggles chasing them down as you already had.
Jtsummers
Issues like this are why I used PODS for my last move. Hire a local packing and unpacking crew at each end yourself, it's a lot less expensive and you get more control but assume more responsibility. Alternatively a rental truck, but you can still hire local crews for the labor.
hx8
I moved a lot.
* If there is something of high value, either handle it yourself separate of the movers, or package it yourself if it's too large. Make sure it's adequately insured and take photos.
* If it's a one day job, hiring a crew with a truck is fine. Keep an eye on the crew and the truck throughout the process.
* If it's a longer job, you can rent one or two trucks and hire a crew to load and another to unload at the destination. If everything is boxed, and you have good access to the front door, then a crew of 3 or 4 should be able to fill a large truck in 2 or 3 hours. Unloading goes quicker.
* I've always regretted using PODS. They are small, and I tend to keep them in the driveway way longer than you should. With a truck rental the time urgency helps me complete the project faster.
rattray
Any tips on hiring movers?
andy99
We moved recently, and admittedly lucked out getting a good mover, but the main difference that made me pick the one we did was that they were going to use their own truck and crew. We only talked to 2 companies, and the other one, despite owning their own trucks, for an out of town move was going to subcontract to someone, under which circumstances all bets are off as happened to the OP.
When I moved I just assumed there would be problems with the movers because it seems like that kind of industry. Turns out we got a great crew, no tricks or gimmicks, and no damage to anything. It actually felt weird seeing how "normal" something like that could be, when you almost expect something like what the OP got.
hx8
Unless it's a 1bedroom apartment don't accept less than 3 guys. Anything heavy really benefits from multiple people. Get three quotes for the job, talking to someone on the phone for each quote. Ask questions during the phone call. Ask about the company and the service they provide, treat it like a short interview. Select the company that sounds the most professional, unless their price is exorbitant compared to the other two.
When the crew arrives, let the leader of the crew know you'll tip cash for good service.
btilly
When my wife and I moved, we packed up the house over several weeks, decided what went, and what would be left.
We then rented the U-Haul recommended for a 3 bedroom apartment, picked two random Mexican volunteers, and paid them more than they asked for, for a very long day. It worked well.
But this did require having been well-organized before they came, having already found fragile stuff, and having our plan for how to protect those things.
abruzzi
Just still be cautious and carry some insurance on your stuff. My brother broke up with his girlfriend, she moved back east. She packed all her stuff up in a PODS and shipped it home, and the pod dissappeared. PODS completely lost it.
thephyber
Curious if an AirTag (or similar BTLE device on a mesh network) could mitigate some of this risk…
ajb
If this is a metal box like a shipping container, you'd have to attaching it to the outside somehow. However the website just says "steel framed" which suggests the sides might not be metal, in which case it might work.
However it's quite possible that something else happened to it that they don't want to admit. Like maybe their driver was DUI and crashed it.
gautamcgoel
That's crazy! How does something so big go missing? Did they ever find it?
rootsudo
Today I learned there is a national database (for now) so you can bypass and file appropriately. That is nice. I’m happy op got somewhat whole again.
But that sucks, luckily I’ve been able to just do U-Haul solo but lately (also facing a move) man - it is tiresome the older you get.
nunez
Agreed.
My wife and I did a move ourselves once. Never again. Movers ever time.
SoftTalker
Honestly the best way to move is to sell or donate everything and buy new for your new place. Get down to suitcases or stuff you can pack and ship via UPS.
Yeah some stuff has sentimental value but try to get past that as much as you can. It’s just stuff.
When my uncle moved when he retired he took what would fit in his car. I have never gotten that lean but I admire him for it.
the__alchemist
This is very situational. Many people have tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars of items, especially furniture.
B-Con
For me it isn't about the cost as much as it is that I've tailored my possessions to be what I like. If I have it, it brings value, and I probably like the details enough that it's hard to replace without getting an exact replica.
SoftTalker
He paid $14k for the movers. That would buy a fair bit of new furniture unless it’s really high end.
wyclif
It is very situational—I get that. But the fact of the matter is that most people have way too much stuff. This creates a huge amount of problems and headaches if you have to move.
kristjansson
At some life stages and situations, this makes total sense. I’d think those are predominantly when one is embarking on a new stage, and moving as a part of that. Graduations, retirement, marriage, divorce, … . But someone moving involuntarily (job change, new posting, …), perhaps with a partner, perhaps with children … it’s hard to begrudge that person bringing many of their things along to ease the transition.
There’s a reason the US military pays for movers.
Glyptodon
If someone gave me replacement value for my stuff I would not have an issue with this. But realistically nobody is going to give $50k+ to replace all your furniture, electronics, dishes, tools, and so forth. And it only really adds up if you either (a) are wealthy enough that it's not a meaningful cost, or (b) barely have anything in the way of furniture and tools. It's also complicated by things like decently made shelves that aren't wildly expensive being much harder to find than 20 years ago. Like if I could get equivalent shelves adjusted for inflation donating and replacing them would be fine. But I literally can't - I can only find cheap crap or rather expensive stuff that's moderately nicer than my old stuff.
pclmulqdq
Yes, next time I move I will sell or donate my $100,000 piano and simply buy a new one in the new place.
zeroonetwothree
Or just don’t have one? Most people don’t own $100,000 pianos and somehow they make do.
Der_Einzige
A guy near me literally gave away a Steinway piano. Like, a real one worth at least 8K (verified it online).
Me being too slow to get it is one of my great regrets in life.
barbazoo
That sounds super wasteful.
neom
I'm my 40s over here and in my life I've owned 3 full houses of...stuff, so much stuff, really nice stuff!!! Now I own almost nothing and life is much easier. I find the comments here really funny, now I am free I realize how trapped I was by my trappings, your uncle was a smart guy.
nunez
This works when you have cheap and/or limited furniture.
Better/more expensive furniture is difficult to sell but also valuable enough to keep.
ghaff
Selling stuff, especially if you're well outside of a major city, is sort of tough. Yard sales don't really bring in the cash and take some work. Most people probably don't want the stuff you don't want and even selling that takes effort.
TuringNYC
>> Honestly the best way to move is to sell or donate everything and buy new for your new place.
One problem is the delays on new furniture. I saw delays of 6-14 weeks on furniture when I last moved. I purchased a kitchen island from Ashley Furniture in 2021 which has still not fully arrived (the side-pieces are still pending in 2025) even though payments started as soon as the first item was shipped.
Also, you may find that furniture prices in 2025 are not what they were when you last moved given inflation.
declan_roberts
This sucks and I feel really sorry for OP. Every once in a while you stumble into a relationship with the company like this and you feel so impotent as to preventing others from falling into the same trap.
Good on OP for not giving up and for going after insurance over and over.
mud_dauber
Boy, if robotics could learn how to bubble wrap, tape, box and stack both hard and soft items… They could hitch a ride on the back of a panel truck. Somewhat similar to forklifts on the tails of Home Depot delivery trucks.
autoexec
Those robot movers would be recording every item in your home, evaluating the age and condition of those items, logging every member of your family, mapping out the floor plans of your old and new home, and streaming that data back to the moving company who would sell it to data brokers.
vemom
They'd racially profile you too, and maybe ICE will arrive and deport you. You won't get any 4th amendment, show me the body or similar "magna carta" protections, or even Miranda.
selimthegrim
Why do I feel like this was a Ray Bradbury story?
Scene_Cast2
I'd love there to be a catalog of all the stuff in my home that I could organize, or easily put up on eBay. The biggest hurdle of selling something, for me, is the work of photographing and uploading the photos. A one-click "sell this" would be amazing.
autoexec
With all the surveillance we live under, pretty much none of it benefits you in any way. I'd love to have access to all the data that's collected about me by the state and by corporations (including the inferences and assumptions they make by evaluating that data). I'd never need to keep a journal. They don't want to give you that data. They'd rather you don't think about it at all.
esperent
> I'd love there to be a catalog of all the stuff
Oh no, you wouldn't have access to that data. It belongs to the robot mover company, not you.
scarmig
Inevitably, companies would arise that don't sell your data, and charge a higher fee to compensate the loss in revenue. Then, they'd go out of business as customers decide they prefer to sell all their data for a couple extra bucks.
andrewflnr
What actually seems to happen is that the expensive company gains customers on the premise of privacy, then eventually succumbs to the temptation to start selling some data anyway.
hx8
If only we had a comprehensive set of data privacy laws that allowed users to request their data be deleted and limited what companies can do with people's data.
autoexec
> Inevitably, companies would arise that don't sell your data, and charge a higher fee to compensate the loss in revenue.
I've been waiting for that to happen in just about every product category I have ever used since the rise of surveillance capitalism and it hasn't yet. It's a fantasy.
Companies will always make more money by charging you as much as you're willing to pay and then also selling your data and/or using it against you for the rest of your life. No company is going to leave that endless flow of money on the table and settle for charging you a slightly higher amount one time. The shareholders won't tolerate that.
sgustard
Human movers have phones, they could be making some extra bucks doing this now?
akerl_
Does that harm me or my stuff? Because smashed furniture and banged up walls suck.
autoexec
That data would absolutely be used to harm you eventually. It'd likely haunt you for the rest of your life.
The most innocent use of that data would result in you getting endless spam from the manufacturers of every item in your home letting you know about the latest model you should upgrade to, along with spam from every competitor telling you why their product should replace what you have. Companies you've never even heard of would suggest you buy their stuff just because you happen to have something in your home that is somewhat similar to something they offer.
Maybe the IRS gets their hands on that data and starts wondering how it is you've managed to afford what you have? Maybe you divorce and your ex's attorney uses that data against you because you forgot to list an asset or to demonstrate that you should have to pay more in alimony, or to paint you as being less fit for custody of your children. Maybe you have something in your home that matches something that was used in a crime and you become a suspect when you wouldn't have otherwise.
Maybe you have things in your home that others would find offensive and activists and extremists target you because of something you have. Scammers and thieves will use that data to target you more effectively. Physiological profiles will be updated based on what you own and how well you maintain your possessions. How sentimental are you? How much do brands and trends matter to you? What do your items say about your values? Those insights will be used by people looking to manipulate you and your views.
It could impact the prices you pay when you buy things, factor into whether or not you get employed at a job you want, and it wouldn't just be happening to you either, but to everyone else in your household including your children.
There's basically zero chance of that data helping you in any way and lots of ways it could end up being used against you without you even being aware of the cause. Your health insurance company isn't going to tell you that they raised your rates because the sporting equipment you kept in your garage made it look to an algorithm like you're more likely to get injured. You just see the higher bill. Everyone who gets their hands on that data will try to use in any and every way that they can to benefit themselves and that will usually be at your expense.
vemom
Yes absolutely. By the loss of the founding principles and freedoms of your country using technology as an end run.
NegativeK
I don't think I'm alone in viewing it as theft of your personal data.
anovikov
How much one needs to make to justify the shocking $14K moving bill? I made north of $1M last year and never in my fucking sane mind i'd pay nearly as much! Worst case, it's a matter of renting a truck and moving things oneself maybe hiring asking some neighbour to help loading and unloading, and offering him a drink after. Because you probably won't pack as densely as pro movers will, and you can do packaging as good, do two trips instead of one.
$14K is a shock and a fucking ripoff even if it was done perfectly. How much time is needed to move otherwise? Two days, tops? One of which you spend anyway managing that move done by movers.
pilingual
They should report it to the New York Attorney General's office, especially with damning evidence like the insurance company being refused contact.
Also the author links to the moving company's website but the anchor doesn't have the rel="nofollow" attribute.
TuringNYC
>> They should report it to the New York Attorney General's office, especially with damning evidence like the insurance company being refused contact.
Does this work outside high-profile cases? A condo I lived in faced dozens of serious offenses from the builder (e.g., live electrical wires left dangling open in living areas during a construction dispute.) The lawyers filed complaints with the NY AG but were told it mostly adds to some aggregate and real action is taken when the aggregate is huge. Also, we were told that most AG attention is focused on Manhattan and not the outer-boroughs.
pilingual
If they have clear evidence with contract, email with company, email with insurance, then it may be worth it to try submitting the evidence to the AG. The AG may write a letter and the company may ignore it, but if other people are in the same situation and the AG's office hears about it they may take more serious action.
Was the builder in the middle of renovating and there was some contract dispute? Legal issues are always nuanced and construction can easily have misunderstandings. With builders I'd have either a good construction attorney draft a contract or just hire a reputable builder. (Matt Risinger, for example, won't deal with custom legal contracts, so you generally will have to choose one or the other. I'd go with a reputable builder and one that doesn't want to tarnish that reputation.)
dramm
I wonder how well flat rate movers is going to survive network partitions, clock skews, and quorum failures.
sandworm101
>> Flat Rate called to tell me a five-person team would arrive. When the crew arrived, it wasn’t Flat Rate. It was a team of two from Esquire Moving Inc
Yup. 1988 "Moving" staring Richard Pryor had a scene about exactly this. Freedom of contract. Whoever you think you have a contact with will no doubt sublet it to someone else.
FridayoLeary
this is the message i got when i clicked on the link:
>Unavailable Due to the UK Online Safety Act
The Online Safety Act imposes new compliance duties on web sites with the potential for staggering penalties. I'm concerned my blog might fall under the OSA's definition of a Part 3 regulated user-to-user service. It might also qualify as a Part 5 service which provides pornography. Unfortunately, Ofcom's guidance for small services has been exceedingly vague.
I don't have the time, money, or interest to set up highly effective age assurance on a personal blog; nor do I care to spend any more of my nights and weekends working through thousands of pages of guidance and writing up risk assessments. I'm geoblocking the UK instead; Ofcom indicates that's sufficient to comply with the law.
Geoblocking is not precise. If you are not in the UK and seeing this message, you can use Tor or a VPN service to access aphyr.com.
There's a lot of uncertainty among small sites regarding what the OSA means and how Ofcom will enforce it. If you run a web site and you're struggling to interpret the OSA guidance, you might want to reach out to Ofcom's Online Safety team at OSengagement@ofcom.org.uk.
I know it's off topic but i think it has some relevance since it shows how this poorly conceived law is actively degrading my experience online, as was predicted here on hn.
Drupon
Kyle is a peerless genius when it comes to his technical content about distributed systems, but he has a tendency for histrionics when it comes to this stuff.
CaliforniaKarl
Are you going to raise the issue with your MP?
FridayoLeary
No. I'm just a casual HN user and i assume few people currently in power have any interest in amending a law they only just passed. Also unfortunately there are other bills that this government is passing/wants to pass that will affect me far worse then this one, so whatever ettention i do have is directed at them.
bena
This sounds like something that would catch me too.
Because I also wouldn’t do the leg work to vet a moving company before contracting them. Because I’ve only done the “get a U-Haul and get to it” method.
A good removalist will come and quote and figure it all out. They'll discuss what you need to do to protect things and who will do it. You pay on delivery so at least there is the option to not pay.
Any company that subcontracts as a surprise is shit. My MO now is if I get a surprise subby for any job, from coding to paving to moving I am going to tell them to fuck off. It ain't a good sign.