Time to quit your pointless job, become morally ambitious and change the world
94 comments
·April 27, 2025jawns
PaulRobinson
You're taking care of your family right now, and that's great, but ask yourself: could you take care of them better by building something that makes the World a better place for them to grow up into, and for their children? Or are you OK with the status quo?
So I'll ask you straight out: why is the choice you've made salary man or nothing? Why can't you get started with a side hustle, and then if it gets traction, you can quit your job and it becomes your main living?
One of the big barriers to this is a lot of investors seem to expect founders to work for nothing in the early years, which is a pretty privileged place to be: most people with dependents just can't do that, so I hear you.
But you don't need VCs. You don't need to live on noodles. You can build something that replaces your day job, you just need to figure it out.
Wickedflickr
I think a better solution than a side hustle, is to gather your friends or coworkers to propose to create, collectively, a worker owned co-op (of whatever idea seems profitable).
As it's being done collectively, there's more of a chance of it getting off the ground, as people could take turns working on it in their spare time instead of a side-hustle dominating your time.
Once it's established, those people could then quit their job and work at the coop.
There are credit unions that could help with startup costs, as well as guides on how to structure it based on other successful coops.
PaulRobinson
I am a big fan of alternative ownership/governance structures in businesses, and this approach might work.
Potential issues: employers don't tend to like it if they get wind that a group of employees are doing something on the side, and may find reason to take ownership of said effort (which your contract might allow them to do).
theglenn88_
Gotta jump in here.
Working full time for someone and doing a side hustle is hard, from experience.
What I’ve found is that trying to do the side hustle takes away from a lot time spent with your dependants, which you will never get back, unless you are lucky enough to “make the break”
Not impossible, and you’ve got to try and find a balance. But it just may never happen.
PaulRobinson
Agree, it has to be time-boxed - burn out risk is real.
I'm fortunate that I don't mind getting up early and I hate morning TV/radio/news, so I can find an extra hour for myself each day.
analog31
The most efficient charity might be the expenditure of your taxes. I know this evokes a natural visceral reaction among many people, but my data point is that liberal democracies with bureaucratic governments seem to be better off in terms of overall human welfare, than countries that depend on private charity.
swat535
I don't think these are mutually exclusive.
In fact, I'd argue that taking care of your family _is_ a morally right and meaningful way of contributing to the world.
There's a reason traditional Christian ethical frameworks often prioritize responsibilities in layers: first to God (or core principles), then to family, then to the neighbor (broader community).
paddw
> Now, you might be thinking: that’s all well and good, but I’ve got a full-time job, two kids and a mortgage. I’m happy to recycle and eat some tofu now and then, but a “fundamental transformation”? No thanks.
In that case, moral ambition may not be for you. I mean, once you have a labradoodle, a set of cheese knives or a robot mower, there’s generally no going back
dreghgh
Did you have parents who looked after you when you were a child? Did they try to provide a reasonable standard of living for you? If so, do you wish that they hadn't done so?
bradly
Oof. Okay. I've done a lot of what is talked about in this article and I have three children. Is the implication that I'm doing something wrong?
dingnuts
I'm not immune to this kind of comment myself, but what is it about the comment section on this website that brings out these kinds of toxic comments? Like, this is just a cynical attack on anyone who succeeds in having a modestly comfortable life. What's the point? People don't like it when this website is compared to Reddit but honestly it's worse. You people are just mean.
frostiness
The entire comment is a direct quote from the article. I don't think it was meant as an insult, just a note that the author of the article already was exempting the top level poster from any of the suggestions the article was making.
candiddevmike
Your dependents will inherit this world
philipov
It's the children of the billionaires that will inherit the world. Your children will only get to rent it from them. Any inheritance you hope to leave them will be spent paying for your retirement and end-of-life care.
kadushka
Let’s forcibly take all the billionaires’ wealth, and distribute it equally among the working class people.
Oh wait…
buzzerbetrayed
Which is precisely whey GP should be spending time with their kids, providing for them, and raising them to be good humans.
adverbly
Did you read the article?
The author speaks to this directly:
> Now, you might be thinking: that’s all well and good, but I’ve got a full-time job, two kids and a mortgage. I’m happy to recycle and eat some tofu now and then, but a “fundamental transformation”? No thanks.
In that case, moral ambition may not be for you. I mean, once you have a labradoodle, a set of cheese knives or a robot mower, there’s generally no going back. But if that’s irritating to hear – and I imagine it might be – then by all means, prove me wrong. I have learned that there are always exceptions, and I want to show that you can be that exception. It’s never too late to step up.
pfisherman
So what is the difference between moral ambition and hubris?
To me limiting oneself to “idealistic but not ambitious” with a focus on fulfilling relationships and positive impact on family, friends, and local community seems like a good way to go.
“To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he's doing is good, or else that it's a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions... Ideology—that is what gives the evildoing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination.” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
spicyusername
It's discussions like these that make romanticizing our non-agrarian ancestors so easy.
Before the agricultural and industrial revolutions and our correct system of highly specialized labor, it feels as though everyone just hung out together, having a good time, and doing what was needed to feed the tribe. Minus the disease and war, of course.
There wasn't this need for an existential discussion about this job or that job, or whether you're lifestyle was morally justified.
There weren't power structures that existed on a scale larger than a single community, invisibly guiding everyone's lives in ways they couldn't control.
dreghgh
People also ran out of food a lot.
One theory about the Jacob and Esau story is that it's about a hunter gatherer (Esau) surrendering political power to a farmer (Jacob) because the farmer has much more reliable access to protein than the hunter, meaning that sooner or later, he can gain the upper hand in a negotiation with someone who's otherwise starving.
You might not ascribe value to this type of biblical 'economic history'. But the theory has explanatory power - if it wasn't for food shortages, why would our ancestors have given up 'hanging out together and having a good time' to embrace the toil of hoeing and herding?
lenkite
In the romantic, non-agrarian era, People very regularly bonked each other with clubs over the head - esp those of a different community.
kadushka
People do this today - all over the world, only with missiles and automatic rifles.
int_19h
When you look at the percentage of people involved in it and people who die to it, we're actually better off than pretty much ever before, even accounting for our vastly improved and devastating weaponry, and even when you look at massive conflicts like WW1 and WW2.
Thing is, a pre-agrarian society means hunters/gatherers, and for that to work out, you need quite a lot of land to provide for a single person (hence why those societies have such low population density). Thus, warfare in that era is all about directly reducing the number of people competing with you for those precious resources, either by killing them or by driving them off the land. And so pretty much all males are involved in it and regular mortality rates from constantly ongoing warfare can reach as high as 20%. Furthermore, warfare itself is explicitly genocidal in nature, e.g. raids of enemy villages, ideally while defenders are away so that you can slaughter as many as possible.
buzzerbetrayed
> Minus the disease and war, of course.
lenkite
I doubt they even considered it war - merely the price of living.
Artgor
> How you spend that time is one of the most important moral decisions of your life.
What if the work itself isn't "the most important" thing in the person's life?
zdragnar
Then you get to join the 99% of the rest of humanity that views work as something necessary to enable the things they enjoy and find purpose in when they're not working.
Finding purpose, fulfillment or joy in your work is nice, but as you grow as a human, or as the field you're in changes, or as the work dries up... well, you're left thoroughly adrift.
Loughla
I work in education, a field famous for attracting people based on their own willingness to do good work for good reasons.
And at the end of the day, a job is a job. I do it because it allows me to live a lifestyle close to what I want, while not being soul crushingly boring most of the time.
I came to terms with the fact that I'm not going to change the world. The best I can do is not fuck it up anymore than when I got here. That's about as good as most of us can expect, since most of us are average in many aspects. Without stunning amounts of genius or resources, I think that hoping just to fade into obscurity is the best you can do, really.
quicheshore
I feel this. I do think though, he mentions that this is the exact trap that is laid down for you when you enter society. You’re led to believe resources/genius is what separates do’ers, but I think he wants us to believe in the blind faith doing = progress. The other is option is doing nothing at all and succumbing to obscurity like you’re saying.
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quicheshore
Great read! I didn’t know about Clarkson at all. I know the article talks about all the evils in the world to choose to battle, I will say though as 21 year old it’s easier to be outraged rather than do something. The third category he mentions is what most of the world has become. One thing I did take away is belief in the power to change things is the basic requirement behind moral ambition. Something I intend to work on myself.
adverbly
Incredibly well written.
Do yourself a favour and actually read the article this time.
It is very convincing for me personally, and it's got me considering making some big changes.
iamsanteri
Amazing how we keep searching for meaning and purpose, a direction in our lives. I guess this is something eternal and universal.
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easeout
It goes to show that the common system of employment, in which we spend our time toward the purposes and meanings of others, tends to provide no purpose or meaning for ourselves.
Clubber
>It goes to show that the common system of employment, in which we spend our time toward the purposes and meanings of others, tends to provide no purpose or meaning for ourselves.
Work certainly provides meaning, you'll notice this when you can't find work for a while, ie. involuntarily unemployed. Also, you have to find deeper meaning outside of work: church, social clubs, raising kids, taking care of elderly parents, volunteering, etc. Getting paid to do moral work is rarely a thing and somewhat defeats the purpose.
everdrive
I think the author is confused about just how few jobs provide value to society. Individuals can pivot and take more meaningful positions, but this isn't possible en masse. Even if everyone were will to make bigger sacrifices, there just are not actually that many available jobs that are beneficial.
PaulRobinson
Yes, there aren't many jobs where you get to change the World. Go make your own, where you actually do.
Why are we all here, on this specific site, if we're not interested in building something ambitious and shaped on our own ideals of what we think the World needs? We might not be right, but it's each of ours, individually.
The people playing this game and winning at the moment are ambitious, but morally... I think we're starting to have some questions about their big ideas, more recently... and so you have the option: go do something to change the game and take the attention away from them.
Big changes come from small ones. If you don't like the status quo, figure out how to change it by building something better. And yes, it's hard, but you don't need to solve the whole thing, particularly when getting started, just a small corner of it.
dreghgh
Agreed. I don't exclude the possibility of large scale changes in society, but until that day, maybe 20% of people who need to work to eat and pay bills can do genuinely valuable work.
I'm sure many of the other 80% would like to do something more positive. Should we really be trying to start a culture war between the two groups, rather than acknowledge that the system isn't great for anyone?
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disambiguation
Yes the tech industry is really lacking people who want to "change the world."
But its an interesting thought exercise. Slavery seems like a cut and dry issue in terms of harm and human rights, yet overtime the "easy" moral problems are solved and you're left with the gray ones. What's today's moral equivalent of slavery that we need crusaders against?
usefulcat
I don’t know the answer but I like the question.
etcet
Factory farming.
almosthere
If all non profits went back to doing the mission instead of selling the mission then we'd all be happier at minimum.
ptero
Many of such "do the right thing and change the world" pieces assume that most people mostly agree on what "the right thing" is. They do not.
Pick people from different countries, different cultures, different backgrounds and they will have very different views on what would make things better. Not in the end state of "people should be healthy, happy and free to pursue their passions; and we should explore the stars, too", but in "what would be a worthy goal for me to work on, today and for the next few years". And acceptance of such differences is, to me, a good thing: anytime countries are remoralized into pursuing a common moral goal, gulags for those who did not drink the kool-aid are not far away.
In my book people should not work on things they find immoral. But I am totally fine if my neighbors or my friends are competing against me at work, in technological or in moral space. If they do not consider their work immoral, it is all good. I like hearing their arguments, too, either to steelman my views or to find cracks in them. This likely puts me into the "spineless amoebas, useless species" bucket of the author's classification.
Going on a moral crusade to change the world? No, thank you. They do not end well; not for the world, which likely will not even notice, but for the crusader who will likely become disillusioned, radicalized or bitter when the world does not budge. My 2c.
MeteorMarc
Rutger Bregman is so witty, even if sometimes annoying too.
This is written from the perspective of someone who doesn't have dependents.
I'm all about changing the world, but I also have an obligation to take care of my family, so my way of changing the world is working a traditional job, donating to charity from my earnings, and using my time/talent/treasure outside of work hours to make a difference.