Google is illegally monopolizing online advertising tech, judge rules
476 comments
·April 17, 2025megaman821
I don't think this article explains it well. Google sells ad space on behalf of the publishers and also sells the ads on behalf of the advertisers. It also runs the auction that places the ads into the ad space. See this graphic https://images.app.goo.gl/ADx5xrAnWNicgoFu7. Parts of this can definately be broken up without destroying Google.
hammock
And crucially, there are leaked emails, other evidence that demonstrate (at the very least historical and occasional) corruption of this dual- (multi?) agency arrangement. Among the allegations:
The Google ad exchange favored its own platforms, limiting the ability of other exchanges to compete fairly in bidding for ad inventory. https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...
In limiting the number of bidders, Google inflated the prices for ad inventory. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-26/closing-arguments-giv...
Google engaged in bid rigging where competitors agree on who will win a bid, again to inflate prices. https://www.justice.gov/atr/preventing-and-detecting-bid-rig...
Google entered market allocation agreements to create an unfair playing field. https://www.winston.com/en/insights-news/avoiding-antitrust-...
fn-mote
I'm willing to believe there's an issue with Google's ad sales, but this comment doesn't have the specifics I'm interested in - in spite of all of the citations.
> In limiting the number of bidders, Google inflated the prices for ad inventory. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-26/closing-arguments-giv...
I had a hard time finding any specifics in that article. It's about closing arguments and does not even mention the number of bidders.
The DOJ press release [1] would be a better citation.
> Google engaged in bid rigging where competitors agree on who will win a bid, again to inflate prices. https://www.justice.gov/atr/preventing-and-detecting-bid-rig...
Note that this link is just to the definition of bid rigging, not an accusation against google.
> Google entered market allocation agreements to create an unfair playing field. https://www.winston.com/en/insights-news/avoiding-antitrust-...
This is an article "Avoiding Antitrust Issues In Search Term Ad Agreements".
[1]: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/press-release/file/1563...
hn_throwaway_99
Thank you very much for your comment. It used to be my favorite saying was "lie with statistics". I think it needs to be updated to "lie with citations".
Frankly, I think what the parent comment is doing is flat-out lying. Or else they were doing some kind of test to see if people actually read citations.
The last two you quote are especially egregious. E.g. saying "Google engaged in bid rigging where competitors agree on who will win a bid, again to inflate prices. https://www.justice.gov/atr/preventing-and-detecting-bid-rig... gives the clear implication that the link supports the antecedent. hammock's comment is complete bullshit.
zombiwoof
Wasn’t part of the Double Click acquisition some sort of guarantee this exact situation wouldn’t happen?
andreimackenzie
> In limiting the number of bidders, Google inflated the prices for ad inventory.
This part doesn't make sense to me. Limiting bidders should drive the price down, because fewer advertisers are competing for the same potential ad impression. The article describes Google's influence as "Google controls the auction-style system," which is a bit more open-ended about the specific alleged practices.
InsomniacL
> It was argued that this approach allows Google to charge higher prices to advertisers while sending less revenue to publishers such as news websites.
It could depend on how they 'limit the number of bidders'. If they sell seats to be able to bid, then the bids are lower to account for that, and publishers get a share of the bid, not the fee bidders pay. I'm guessing though...
sgc
I think they meant that Google managed to limit the number of bidders for ad placement - they shut out other advertising groups -, so they could then charge what they want to those who need to advertise their business or perish, and take what they want from websites that publish ads as well (take a larger cut from the 'ad inventory' understood either as ad space or ads to be published). In this sense the linked article states:
"The US argues that Google used its financial power to acquire potential rivals and corner the ad tech market, leaving advertisers and publishers with no choice but to use its technology."
null
pyrale
If we're to compare Google's situation to that of finance companies on other markets, even a small part of what Google did would result in a significant part of their execs and maybe a few tech staff wearing orange jumpsuits for these companies. Given the nature of Google's transgression and the way they've been robbing their own customers, they'd deserve it.
There's a case to be made that on top of google being broken up, the market should be heavily regulated in order to restore trust for market participants.
thaumasiotes
> In limiting the number of bidders, Google inflated the prices for ad inventory. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-11-26/closing-arguments-giv...
Note that this link says absolutely nothing to support the sentence before it. Which isn't a surprise given that limiting the number of bidders could hardly drive the prices those bidders are paying up. But the issue isn't even mentioned.
null
econ
Im not sure but I think what they mean is that if you chose adsense the TOS says you may not display ads from other providers.
crowcroft
When a media buyer puts $1.00 in on one side of the system, on average only $0.60 makes it to the publisher. In some cases less than $0.50 gets to them.
Advertising is an intentionally complex system so that companies can clip the ticket at multiple stages throughout the process. Google should be broken up, but the whole ad tech system needs to go into the bin if these problems are going to ever get fixed.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/augustinefou/2021/02/15/how-muc...
aiauthoritydev
As someone who has worked in AdTech I would respectfully disagree. It is indeed complex but it is incredibly efficient. Also it is irrelevant of whether publisher earns 75% or 30% of the total revenue. What matters is how much they are earning compared to the next best alternative.
Some companies like Google are incredible at this. Google is not a "monopoly" in this space. In fact the world has far too many Google equivalents but absolutely no one comes close to Google in generating top dollars for publishers. I am saying this after working for 10+ years competing against Google.
crowcroft
In theory, I agree. In practice the whole system is rotten.
* Google unilaterally changing bid mechanics raising costs 15% https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-changed-ad-auctions-ra...
* Conversion attribution and cookie bombing fraud from both Criteo and Steelhouse https://finance.yahoo.com/news/criteo-versus-steelhouse-clic...
* Phunware click flooding fraud https://www.forbes.com/sites/augustinefou/2021/01/17/ubers-l...
* A nearly unending list of different mobile ad frauds https://www.fraud0.com/resources/ad-fraud-cases-of-the-past-...
* Viewability fraud https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/31/procter-gamble-chief-markete...
* Session hijacking fraud https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/craigsilverman/ad-indus...
This doesn't sound like a healthy and efficient industry. Not only do vendors clip the ticket aggressively, they divert dollars that advertisers are intending to go to quality media/real publishers, and siphon it off to fraudulent sites and apps where they generally take a higher margin.
InsomniacL
> Also it is irrelevant of whether publisher earns 75% or 30% of the total revenue. What matters is how much they are earning compared to the next best alternative.
Not if Google illegally monopolizes the market unfairly hindering 'the next best alternative'.
> Google is not a "monopoly" in this space.
You've made that comment on a post where a judge has ruled "Google is illegally monopolizing"...
> In fact the world has far too many Google equivalents but absolutely no one comes close to Google in generating top dollars for publishers.
They have not been able to compete in a fair market.
This comment has some great examples.. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43719246
whiplash451
> the world has far too many Google equivalents
No it doesn't. As explained by the parent, Google is in a unique position w.r.t to the publishers, the sellers and the bidders.
There's a ton of very talented adtech companies out there, but they only get to play an unfair game.
PaulHoule
It was 10 years ago when I was serious about it but I found every monetization venue other than Google was a joke. If you had the right kind of site you could make money with Adult Friend Finder but everything else paid somewhere between 0-10% what Google did and it wasn’t worth the brand destruction that usually resulted.
nitwit005
You're absolutely right, publishers are picking Google with cause, but if Google prevented competition, that's not a real choice is it?
There has to be some sort of competition for markets to be efficient, and you're essentially suggesting there hasn't been a viable alternative in a decade.
ksec
Thankfully HN is finally at a stage people can come out and talk about Ad tech without being harassed or attacked.
Could you explain more on this. What do you think makes Google Ad or DoubleClick so special? And
>What matters is how much they are earning compared to the next best alternative.
Correct me if I am wrong, you are suggesting even if publisher only earns 30% of the revenue they still earn more than on other alternative platform?
udev4096
Your opinion is biased from the fact that you worked on "adtech". How can you justify it? You are the reason the web is bloated and lost the true idea of it a long time ago. Luckily, there are people who run pi-hole and adguard who have my utmost respect along with countless people who maintain an upto-date ad-block list
xmprt
Perhaps Google does well for their publishers but do they do well for advertisers? Inherently it seems like it's impossible to do both because what's good for one group is bad for another. Fortunately with healthy competition we solve this problem since alternatives could be used.
But since Google is playing both sides and has so much sway over the market, they're able to manipulate things. Even if they're not manipulating things to their benefit, it's still not great to have a single party have so much control.
TZubiri
The argument here being that the fee is too high? I don't think prices being too high is a strong argument of the existence of a monopoly, but it might be of the exploitation of one.
secondcoming
Running a DSP is quite expensive if you have all the features advertisers want.
dboreham
Digital Signal Processor?
shortrounddev2
The (Open)RTB system makes things more competitive and reduces costs for advertisers by making unsold inventory available to an automated marketplace while also increasing revenue for smaller publishers who otherwise wouldn't have been able to create first party relationships with advertisers. The middlemen are various identity providers and other tracking/data enrichment services, as well as third party exchanges, DSPs and SSPs. Believe it or not this system makes it a lot cheaper than just having someone buy ad space directly on a website
> Three industry studies showed less than 50 cents of every dollar goes to showing ads.
Every penny of what is spent goes to showing ads, by definition. However, that doesn't mean that every penny goes to the publisher. The advertiser may look at the 60 cents being spent on everybody between them and the publisher and say "hey, I'm getting ripped off! I could be paying 4 cents/CPM instead of 10 cents/CPM!" but each middleman (usually) adds some kind of value to increase acquisition rate. For example:
* Identity providers who have lists of user IDs that belong to "high CTR" audiences (users more likely to click ads)
* Geo providers who tell the bidders where the User's location is so that they can target locally-focused advertisements to them
* User intent plugins, "abandoned cart" retargeting, product recommendation providers, etc. who look at user interaction events and build profiles of people who can be retargeted
* Exchanges which conduct auctions across multiple DSPs to get a better price for publishers while also making more inventory available to advertisers
At one company I worked for, we allocated impressions ahead of time. Based on prior years' data and viewer ratings of TV shows, we could predict the future, determining how many viewers a video or TV show would get, and then selling the advertising inventory based on that prediction. That shit ain't free!
All of these things are designed to increase your acquisition rate from x% to y%, where x > y. Sure, you could just pay $5,000 a month to a website to show a banner ad directly, but a larger % of your money would be wasted on users who are utterly uninterested in your banner.
crowcroft
> each middleman (usually) adds some kind of value
This is the argument that gets made, but very rarely is it true.
From Neumann et al in 2019 [1]
"When investigating gender (being male) and age (three different tiers: 18-24, 25-34 and 35-44 years) individually, we find that digital audiences for gender are on average less often correct than random guessing (accuracy of 42.3%)."
If the accuracy of targeting is worse than random guessing on average then it's value is less $0.00. Advertisers would reach more of their target audience by simply buying more media instead of spending money on 'targeting' even after you discount wastage to $0.00 in 'value'.
I agree with everything you're saying about programmatic *in theory*, but I would argue that in practice the whole system is just broken.
[1] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3203131
Nemo_bis
> Sure, you could just pay $5,000 a month to a website to show a banner ad directly, but a larger % of your money would be wasted
How do you know that the waste is higher with the banner ad?
tmtvl
> * Identity providers who have lists of user IDs that belong to "high CTR" audiences (users more likely to click ads)
> * Geo providers who tell the bidders where the User's location is so that they can target locally-focused advertisements to them
> * User intent plugins, "abandoned cart" retargeting, product recommendation providers, etc. who look at user interaction events and build profiles of people who can be retargeted
That's horrible! In a better world such practices would be made illegal and those involved would be hung, drawn, and quartered.
jt2190
Yeah I’m listening to a legal analyst on Bloomberg radio and there’s a lot of detail that’s getting lost under the headline. It’s not yet even clear yet that Google would need to divest from anything in order to address this.
Bloomberg Radio April 17 2025: https://www.youtube.com/live/iEpJwprxDdk?si=9WaFIJENUwyIJvpk
coliveira
Google can extract as much money as they want from this equation, up to the limit of available capital for advertising. They just need to squeeze more from publishers and at the same time increase click costs. They have been doing both of these for several years.
riku_iki
> They just need to squeeze more from publishers and at the same time increase click costs.
but publishers receive stable share of click cost (67%?), so they should be happy with this arrangement.
stasomatic
That’s assuming a click happened. Premium pubs prefer guaranteed fixed CPMs no matter the amount of real clicks. I’ve worked for a few years at one of the major native ad companies, I’m very familiar with how the sausage is made.
null
whatever1
At the very least the exchange has to be audited. Currently we have no idea whether the prices are a result of natural supply-demand dynamics or whether the exchange keeps artificially pumping the prices with lackluster demand
fidotron
Or design errors in the algorithms doing the bidding!
There's serious nerd sniping potential in asking how best to construct an automatic bidder, especially with the speed and scale requirements in place. It's an incredibly deep problem, and I don't believe there is a single right answer.
shkkmo
> There's serious nerd sniping potential in asking how best to construct an automatic bidder, especially with the speed and scale requirements in place. It's an incredibly deep problem, and I don't believe there is a single right answer.
The problem is that it is unwise to trust an bidding algorithm designer whose incentives are aligned against yours. Google benefits from higher winning bids.
shostack
There's a lot of unknowns at this point, but here's an industry piece for a more informed perspective on it.
https://www.adexchanger.com/platforms/google-is-found-guilty...
brikym
It's a lot more complex than that. Google has been caught putting their finger on the scale in the auction process. Not not entirely sure how they did it but I believe they were outbidding third party bidders by a cent because they're downstream in the chain.
glitchc
Decoupling the advertising marketplace from the platform would be a huge win for consumers. It would also help Google focus on products again instead of constantly bowing to the almighty ad dollar.
Frieren
This is necessary now, but it should have been done years back.
Nowadays, many companies backed up by investors with very deep pockets are doing this in all markets: start to buy middle-man companies in a space, it does not matter which one, dominate the market thanks to monopolistic power. Screw the clients making them pay too much, screw the providers paying them too little. Go for the next market.
Google does this for ads. But, with Apple, does the same for app vendors. Amazon does it for all kinds of brands with physical products. Uber does it for taxi drivers and their clients. All of them take a big chunk of the profit while making things more expensive, but they are the only real option to reach clients as they have used tactics to monopolize entire markets.
This should be impossible, because there are laws against it. If it is allowed the future of the economy is one big corporation with all workers working for it, and everybody buying from it. It looks like a scifi dystopia.
BirAdam
Monopolies die after a bit unless governments save them. Monopolies tend to stagnate, become too bureaucratic, and lose the pressure to perform. They then lose to more dynamic competitors. Sears is an example of loss, the banking cartel is example of government interference.
Laws, otoh, are not magic. Making a law doesn’t solve the problem. Laws require people with guns to go enforce them. The government has no incentive to use force against the people lining their pockets, and so laws tend to be enforced primarily on the poor and the working class. Only when the majority of the votes of the public could be swayed will government attack the donor class.
precommunicator
If you look at the actual decision, Google court cases are quoted there many times (Search, Play etc.) as the precedent of e.g. what monopoly is.
turtletontine
| This should be impossible, because there are laws against it.
That’s what so remarkable: we have a robust system of antitrust laws in this country, they just haven’t been enforced in decades. Thank god the Biden admin started trying to use them again, and that Trump hasn’t stopped these cases in their tracks.
lolinder
The first Trump admin started the Google search antitrust suit 3 years before the Biden admin filed this one. Attacking Big Tech is a bipartisan affair these days.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_...
foobarian
If only Marx et al. knew that the end game of capitalism is communism! Would have probably slept much better at night.
dragonwriter
> If only Marx et al. knew that the end game of capitalism is communism!
Using "end game" as it seems to be here -- for the natural ultimate result -- Marx argued that as a pretty central thesis of his work (through the mechanism of capitalist development -> proletarian class consciousness -> socialist revolution -> socialism -> <stuff mostly left as an exercise for the reader> -> withering of the state -> communism.)
OTOH, a single entity run for the benefit of a narrow group of stakeholders employing all labor, supplying everything, and effectively enslaving everyone through private control of the means of production is not Communism, or even socialism (defined by proletarian control of the means of production) but just monopolistic capitalism (and, yes, this is where a major non-Leninist Communist criticism of Leninism, and its descendants like Stalinism and Maoism, that feature totalitarian control of a command economy by a narrow self-perpetuating party elite stems from.)
dumbledoren
> and, yes, this is where a major non-Leninist Communist criticism of Leninism, and its descendants like Stalinism and Maoism, that feature totalitarian control of a command economy by a narrow self-perpetuating party elite stems from.
People always criticize that, and yet those systems delivered: They raised the Soviet citizens from mud huts to apartments within one generation. One thing that is prominent in the stories about the fall of the Eastern Bloc and its aftermath is how the Soviet citizens never thought that they could lose 'staples' like free education, healthcare, childcare, housing, food, paid vacations, maternity leave, guaranteed jobs etc in capitalism. They thought that they would have everything that Leninist socialism gave them in the USSR and an additional consumer economy. They were dumbfounded to find out that wasnt the case.
rfrey
Genuinely confused... How is anything in this scenario at all related to communism?
tdb7893
Not to be overly pedantic but what he described isn't communism, monopolistic private corporation is pretty much the exact opposite of communism.
fsckboy
price discovery through invisible hand, competitive markets are the the opposite of communism. crony capitalist monopolies are more like fascism vs communism
timewizard
So you're acknowledging that the best way to make a population powerless and then rob them blind is Communism?
mystified5016
No, because we aren't even doing that the best way. Can't even fail successfully.
shadowgovt
I don't know, capitalism seems to be doing a pretty good job of it right now. I'd have to see some hard numbers on efficacy.
Has anyone done a normalized any% speedrun to breadlines on these two fierce contenders? Can monarchy get in on this?
ApolloFortyNine
I'm confused how this is a monopoly, is it just the "if we define a market as Google ads, then Google has a monopoly problem"? Like defining iOS apps as a market (and somehow failed)?
Even if they play games with the auctions to keep the price up, at the end of the day X company is spending $5 per thousand clicks (or whatever) because they think it's worth it. Google can charge whatever they want, they run the platform, and it's not as if anyone is forced to use them.
I just don't see how you could in the same breath (how the government basically has) that the app store isn't a monopoly, but Google ads are. There's other ad companies, there is no other way to get an app on iOS.
lolinder
> There's other ad companies, there is no other way to get an app on iOS.
There is no other way to get an ad on sites that use Google Ads, just as there's no other way to get an app on iOS. These seem to be perfectly parallel to me: in either case you can pay a company to get access to their user base or you can choose to not pay that company to get access to their users. But if you make that choice, in either case you're locked out of a large market.
I agree with you that there's a strong argument to be made that the cases should have been decided the same way, but I also think they made the right call with Apple, so that leaves me reevaluating my gut instinct on this one.
null
timewizard
> I'm confused how this is a monopoly
An example from the case would be: Google bought Admeld. Then it disabled it's real time bidding feature. This created short term losses for them but gave them long term advantage in market control.
> Even if they play games with the auctions to keep the price up
Then it should be noticed, competitors should form, and the market should move away from this provider. Yet this has not happened because Google keeps buying those competitors.
> and it's not as if anyone is forced to use them.
Technically? Yes. Practically? No.
> that the app store isn't a monopoly, but Google ads are.
Our federal courts are separated into districts. Not all of them use the same precedents and market logic when deciding cases. This is probably why congress passed a law that prevents large companies from removing cases to the district of their choice and instead forces them to hold the case where the prosecutor decides.
The latter point is one reason why this case ended up differently.
> There's other ad companies
Loss leading, exclusive contracts, and price fixing are all crimes that can be committed in that environment. The bar for anti trust isn't "100% market domination." It's actually pretty nuanced. That's a good thing.
turtletontine
Um, no, the market is obviously not defined as “google ads.” You could bother to do one single search (maybe even with google!) before spewing nonsense.
Specifically, part of the case found google liable for “unlawfully [tying] its publisher ad server and ad exchange” in violation of the Sherman antitrust act. Basically, google has locked down both the supply side (sites with space the sell for ads) and demand side (market of advertisers bidding on that space) so it can play both sides - and (crucially!) it has integrated them so as to lock in both advertisers and publishers. That’s how you unfairly build a monopoly.
And funny that you use the App Store as an example. Two years ago google lost an antitrust case brought by epic games about their android store practices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_Games_v._Google?wprov=sft...
nixpulvis
I would love to see a company compete in the ad space with the goal of making ads less intrusive. If ads didn't attack me and cause the viewport to jump and become obscured while reading, my first impression with the products would be better, and the sites the ads are on would get more viewership.
Quality ads would be at a huge premium.
alexey-salmin
Web ads are bearable for me most of the time, but I'm dismayed by ads in mobile games my kids play. Unskippable 30 second videos that peddle poorly made F2P games.
I manage to keep them mostly out of it by paying for worthy games and deleting the rest.
However I would in fact happily welcome _some_ ads. Ones that would simply inform me of existence of masterpieces like Tiny Bubbles or Monument Valley rather than peddle anything. This idea of a tiny ad network with curated content comes up in my head often. Sure it won't make any money it would do some good.
pyfon
Turning that on its head, maybe you want something like a 90s shareware lost, curated by someone. Then the games you'd play for free are now ad free (the game is its own ad to get more levels). And you get that curated list. But yeah less money than dialing up ads to 11 while trying to find the whale who'll spend 1000 a week.
firecall
This is where Apple Arcade is an excellent value IMHO.
People like to disparage Apple Arcade as some sort of failure for not having enough "AAA" titles, whatever they are supposed to be.
But yet, Apple constantly adds new titles to the catalogue, and you can play them all for a reasonable cost without vile ads for gambling, casino, adult and microtransaction games!
Also, in my experience the games all seem to run fine on old-ish hardware like the iPhone 11.
nixpulvis
The fact that mobile gaming is so plagued with scams and bullshit ads is a serious problem. Makes me bot want to engage at all.
beezlebroxxxxxx
If we must have ads, the best quality ads I see online are dumb ads. Just an image as a link. The most effective ads I see are ones on blogs where the blogger sells ad space (side columns) and they're just images that directly link to the product. The ads are relevant to the blog and readers. 99% of other online ads I see are visual garbage and irrelevant. The "targeting" is abysmal.
Convincing all of these sites that Google, Meta, or other services, are "superior" for ads genuinely seems like incredible marketing. They've siphoned up enormous amounts of money and in return put in place a miserable user experience while making media companies wholly reliant on them.
nixpulvis
Exactly.
Sell "dumb" ads with effort made to make the ads simultaneously stand out and fit into the theme of the site. Like how quality newspapers do it sometimes.
hermitShell
Check out this Geiko ad: https://www.berkshirehathaway.com/
Buffett is a rare gem
astonex
You might be interested in The Trade Desk and their Sellers and Publishers 500. It focuses on only quality content and quality ads. https://www.thetradedesk.com/resources/what-is-sellers-publi...
imhoguy
I think at the beginning Google was the good one keeping display ads high quality, so that even some ad blocking lists didn't remove them straight away. But yeah, today it is impossible to browse some sites or use apps without being tricked into endless maze of close button. And when I see Temu ads I throw up.
nashashmi
I think the deed is done. We are never going back to "good" ads anymore. The market's greatest revenue makers are those who are dumb ad clickers. We need more intrusive ads to get them on board now. The smart ones can still use adblock.
pyfon
I'd use the web more without an adblocker if this were the case.
LordDragonfang
The exact company you're asking for existed already, almost two decades ago. It was called Project Wonderful, and initially focused on independent blogs and webcomics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Wonderful
It never managed more than modest success and never expanded far outside its initial sphere. It shut down in 2018 because it was unable to compete with all the monopolist walled garden ad spaces.
There are various small projects that could claim to be successors to that ethos -- but (to a rounding error) no one has heard of them because, contrary to your claim, the revealed "premium" that users place on "quality ads" is dwarfed by the premium that advertisers place on aggressive attention vampires (and the latter are the ones actually paying)
alexey-salmin
Can you share some names? Would be interesting to check them out.
I understand why such a company will never make big money, but I don't see why it couldn't operate and survive. Running a small-scale ad network incurs small-scale costs. I guess the problem would burnout of people maintaining it.
guywithahat
I've always been somewhat opposed to this, because there's already like 10 different search alternatives, and now AI is taking over, which will further weaken their grip.
Google is on top because they do the best job; I use Yandex primarily, but I switch back to google all the time for coding related questions. In terms of advertising, there's billions of views on Facebook/Instagram/X to get, in addition to all the other sites. I get they're a big player, but I worry we're just beating Google because they're down, not because it's good for the consumer.
wbl
This is not that case. This case is about how Google only serves certain ad inventory to people who use their products.
jack_h
Then what is the definition of a monopoly? It doesn’t appear to be the same definition as “the exclusive possession or control of the supply of or trade in a commodity or service.” Do they exclusively control all ad inventory? Do they control all devices receiving ads? GP states that they don’t have exclusive control broadly, just within their own ecosystem. That’s not the definition of a monopoly though, so it seems like a motte and bailey calling google a monopoly.
ThatPlayer
The courts don't use "monopoly", they use the term "monopoly power": https://www.ftc.gov/advice-guidance/competition-guidance/gui... Like this says, it doesn't strictly require a monopoly.
It's just a term that gets simplified by journalist and articles, because no one is familiar with monopoly power.
From the court filing:
> Plaintiffs have proven that Google has willfully engaged in a series of anticompetitive acts to acquire and maintain monopoly power in the publisher ad server and ad exchange markets for open-web display advertising.
guywithahat
I guess my argument is you can use one of the other dozen ad platforms
gtirloni
Online advertising isn't limited to ads in search results. They can include ads everywhere and work as a platform for others as well.
lolinder
You're mixing up antitrust cases. The 2020 case [0], decided in August and going into remedies in a week or so, was about search. This one is about advertising [1], a separate market that the DOJ has argued Google has also been acting anticompetitively in.
Aside from that:
> now AI is taking over, which will further weaken their grip.
Maybe you've missed that they're pulling ahead of OpenAI on the AI front?
[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_...
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Google_LLC_...
IshKebab
Well they certainly gained dominance by being the best and I would say they still are the best. But maybe there was some competitor that could have usurped them by being even better if not for their anticompetitive tactics. I wouldn't put money against that...
forgotoldacc
> Google is on top because they do the best job
Companies become monopolies often through doing their job the best. Companies stay the best because they're monopolies.
gregw134
There's really only one alternative, Bing. Virtually all the other western search engines are using the Bing api, and just slightly modify the results.
guywithahat
Technically Yandex has it’s own index, although there’s debate on whether Eastern Europe counts as western in this context
2OEH8eoCRo0
> Google is on top because they do the best job
You think a court hasn't considered that angle?
p3rls
Really? Even non-technical people are waking up and seeing the 3 in web3 stands for India, OnlyFans and AI content.
As someone who runs a large platform in the music niche, every independent interesting webapp in the kpop community besides me has been killed by Google's ceaseless enshittification and I'd be thrilled if everyone who worked there had their stock options reduced to 0 to atone for what they've done to the internet.
internetter
Kinda surprised. Google's core business is advertising. Some vertically integrated aux services (like chrome) feel ripe for antitrust, but I wasn't expecting ads themselves. What is Google without ads?
tiltowait
Being a monopoly, in itself, isn’t illegal. The question is whether the company maintains its monopoly through illegal tactics or leverages that monopoly in illegal manners.
(NYT really ought to add “illegal” to their title.)
dang
The HTML doc title has that wording, so we've swapped out the article title for that. Thanks!
nashashmi
Google is playing all sides of the dice. They used adsense to enlist publishers. They used adwords to get marketers. They used an ad buying and selling platform to corner the entire ad line.
Google bought Doubleclick for $3 Billion. Today it is worth $22 Billion. When Google got into ad-tech, they drifted away from their core market: users. And started to endorse the other side that turned users into products.
hnfong
IIRC, before Google got into ad-tech, they didn't have a business model. Not sure whether "core market: users" make sense in this context.
nashashmi
Their business model was search advertising. And they created many product products from that revenue. They tried to monetize the other products which is why they got into ad tech .
turtletontine
You’ve nailed the first two stages of enshittification in your story there. Stage 1: bring in users with a genuinely good product they like! Stage 2: once users are locked in, prioritize your business customers (in this case, advertisers) and make things continually worse for your users.
But stage 3 is just as crucial: once the advertisers are locked in, make things worse for THEM just for your benefit. That’s how google makes such obscene margins on adverting. Publishers and advertisers would love an alternative - but google has done an excellent job of preventing that through unlawful monopolization tactics. Hence thus case, and why it’s so important.
bdcravens
("Genius, Billionaire, Playboy, Philanthropist")
Everything else. Cloud provider, operating systems, browsers, hosting business apps, phone licenser, Internet provider, smart home manufacturer, and various moonshots. Their ad company is a monopoly because of those other services.
Google as an ad company that can't leverage those other lines of business to gain an advantage over other ad companies still has a viable ad business. They can compete on the basis of that lone company's strengths.
("If you're nothing without this suit, then you shouldn't have it")
internetter
Thanks, I like the last quote. But I'm curious... Would it be preferable to have Google owning all of these services you listed—just not the ad company they depend on, or the inverse—all the companies are spun out?
I see your point, but also, if Google continued to own all these other things, it would still be a terrifyingly large spread, no?
bdcravens
Large companies, even monopolies, aren't the problem. Unfair leverage to suppress competition is. Those products without the subsidizing revenue of ads, and ads without the information flows of those products, is the goal.
Who gets what part of the company is the wrong question to ask. The org chart would get split along those business units. In all likelihood, the company called "Google" would be the software side, since that's where search lives.
PaulHoule
Google can afford to lose money on many of those things because of the ad monopoly. (How much is Android worth in that it keeps Apple out of antitrust trouble with iOS? What quid pro quo does that enable?)
ndiddy
The original Google research paper by Brin and Page explicitly points out that a search engine financed by advertising is inherently anti-consumer:
> Currently, the predominant business model for commercial search engines is advertising. The goals of the advertising business model do not always correspond to providing quality search to users. For example, in our prototype search engine one of the top results for cellular phone is "The Effect of Cellular Phone Use Upon Driver Attention", a study which explains in great detail the distractions and risk associated with conversing on a cell phone while driving. This search result came up first because of its high importance as judged by the PageRank algorithm, an approximation of citation importance on the web [Page, 98]. It is clear that a search engine which was taking money for showing cellular phone ads would have difficulty justifying the page that our system returned to its paying advertisers. For this type of reason and historical experience with other media [Bagdikian 83], we expect that advertising funded search engines will be inherently biased towards the advertisers and away from the needs of the consumers.
> Since it is very difficult even for experts to evaluate search engines, search engine bias is particularly insidious. A good example was OpenText, which was reported to be selling companies the right to be listed at the top of the search results for particular queries [Marchiori 97]. This type of bias is much more insidious than advertising, because it is not clear who "deserves" to be there, and who is willing to pay money to be listed. This business model resulted in an uproar, and OpenText has ceased to be a viable search engine. But less blatant bias are likely to be tolerated by the market. For example, a search engine could add a small factor to search results from "friendly" companies, and subtract a factor from results from competitors. This type of bias is very difficult to detect but could still have a significant effect on the market. Furthermore, advertising income often provides an incentive to provide poor quality search results. For example, we noticed a major search engine would not return a large airline’s homepage when the airline’s name was given as a query. It so happened that the airline had placed an expensive ad, linked to the query that was its name. A better search engine would not have required this ad, and possibly resulted in the loss of the revenue from the airline to the search engine. In general, it could be argued from the consumer point of view that the better the search engine is, the fewer advertisements will be needed for the consumer to find what they want. This of course erodes the advertising supported business model of the existing search engines. However, there will always be money from advertisers who want a customer to switch products, or have something that is genuinely new. But we believe the issue of advertising causes enough mixed incentives that it is crucial to have a competitive search engine that is transparent and in the academic realm.
Kind of funny how they basically predicted Google's degradation years in advance.
Henchman21
They were really smart guys. But smart guys don’t stand a chance in the face of all that money because it attracts people who know how to manipulate and control smart people. Smart people think they’re at the top of the totem pole. But really its those without ethics who sit at the top in our society.
This is a conundrum humanity must address if we’re to survive over the long term, IMO.
lanstin
A powerful argument against excessively large corporations. When the companies are competing fiercely, the amoral folks can't game the system.
moshegramovsky
This is seriously one of the best things I've ever read here. Extremely well said.
imiric
You're implying that smart people are somehow inherently ethical, but were manipulated by unethical (and less smart?) people. Whereas some of the least ethical people in history were also very smart. Intelligence is practically a requirement for truly abhorrent behavior.
Greed is humanity's greatest weakness. When faced with the opportunity of unimaginable wealth, most people would sacrifice their ethics and morals, assuming they had any to begin with.
foobarian
> This is a conundrum humanity must address if we’re to survive over the long term, IMO.
Who's to say that this is not actually an evolutionary adaptation that allows the more ruthlessly led tribes to dominate their enemies? The stat about 1/25 of individuals being sociopaths is very telling
dboreham
Psychopathopoly.
hermitShell
That’s an awesome point, and honestly I hope lawmakers start to dig into advertising as an industry in general. Hate being exposed to ads and the only alternative is to pay to avoid them. Should be considered predatory and limited in scope somehow. Big Tech can just focus on good products, please. It’s not just preference, it’s and outcome of the final analysis of incentives in society, so S and B could foresee it so many years ago
ashu1461
There have been similar such statements in the past but nothing happened, What will be different this time ?
1vuio0pswjnm7
The Court's Opinion: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.53...
kemitchell
Court Listener has the opinion here:
https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.53...
danman7788
This is fantastic news. Break up the Google monopoly.
Decision here: https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.53...