Oil hits 4-year low, coffee falls as trade war escalates
39 comments
·April 9, 2025FollowingTheDao
PaulRobinson
So many questions, but first off the bat: how are you getting onto HN, and what are you getting from this community to help you as a homeless guy in a minivan?
What does your rig look like? If you've got solar panels and battery and able to live somewhat comfortably, where would you draw the line between homeless and "van living"?
Hope your fortunes improve and that you ride this one out OK, godspeed!
FollowingTheDao
Oh, I’m in a pretty sizable town right now, Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
I live in a 2001 Dodge grand Caravan and only have portable solar panels, and you’re right, I don’t know if I should call myself homeless most of the time but I’m homeless in the conventional sense where I don’t have a fixed address where I can get mail.
Thanks for the thoughts about my future, but I just don’t think about it and that’s the best thing to do for everyone I feel.
greenavocado
You can get land with water in America for under $1000 an acre. Strongly recommend investing in land with water. Electricity can be pulled in via solar, trucked in with diesel fuel for generation, starlink can be arranged, sewage can be collected in containers and disposed of periodically (worst case), but having a place to stay legally with a water connection shouldn't be underestimated. I lived in a van I converted to solar too for six months before finding employment in a city and consequently a cheap apartment. This was before remote work was more accepted.
FollowingTheDao
Thanks, people always tell me about this, but I can never find a way to do it. Do you have any links or ways to find these pieces of land? Every time I look, there’s always a catch.
greenavocado
Find a parcel near a river or with an aquifer underneath it
https://dashboard.waterdata.usgs.gov/app/nwd/en/
Right sidebar, Hydrology -> Aquifers -> ON
Then check local ordinances to see if there are prohibitions against living in an RV on your property. Typically you want to stay away from properties which specify "Covenants and restrictions apply" because they typically prohibit RV living.
$99 Down + $149 closing fee and $75 monthly for 35 months: https://www.landwatch.com/ozark-county-missouri-recreational...
ProjectArcturis
I get why oil would fall - recession, less tourism and trade. But why are tariffs making coffee cheaper? I would have thought it would get more expensive in the US, since it's almost all imported.
dataviz1000
The article is focused on global commodity price trends rather than being exclusively about U.S. prices.
Coffee will get more expensive in the United States which is great for Puerto Rico -- although the kids in San Juan would prefer a protectionist strategy of growing crops that they consume themselves than exporting to the mainland.
Because the price of imported goods will increase in the United States driving down demand within the United States, exporters will have more supply which will drive down price to the other 100+ countries they trade with.
Once countries like Thailand and Peru start to trade more amongst themselves there probably isn't a return to same trading with the United States who will be like the kid on the playground nobody wants to play with.
Eddy_Viscosity2
I think its a mistake to think that coffee consumption in the US will diminish even a bit due to tariffs. They will just pay the higher prices. Coffee consumption ranks just above self-actualization in the hierarchy of needs.
joakleaf
I would think that you could be right, but it could also be the opposite.
Low demand in the US, means less sales to US, so they may try to make up for the loss of profit on the US market by increasing prices on other markets... So global price increase.
E.g. Apple likely to increase prices on iPhones world wide to make up for the loss in US.
This feels completely unpredictable.
freeone3000
For perishable goods, you cannot make up for loss of profit by increasing prices: storing goods has a cost, disposing of goods has a cost, and you have a window of a few months (a year at the outside for coffee) where these goods are viable. After that, your 100 tons of coffee is 100 tons of compost. You cannot produce “less coffee”: it’s already planted, and in some cases, harvested! You get what you get! So the rational act here is to have whatever customers you have left “dispose of” more of it for you: by lowering the price.
jeromegv
> Low demand in the US, means less sales to US, so they may try to make up for the loss of profit on the US market by increasing prices on other markets... So global price increase.
This is not how supply and demand works in a competitive market. If demand drops, supplier compete on price and it leads to a reduction in price. They don't up the price to try to "make up", they can't, because someone next door will accept the lower price to get rid of their supply.
energy123
That's not how it works. You don't increase prices to "make up" for lost profits elsewhere. There is a lot of microeconomics research into why firms set the prices the way they do and that isn't it.
dataviz1000
If supply increases and demand stays the same, price goes down. If supply decreases and demand stays the same, price goes up.
More likely, another force is the expectation that the world economy will contract decreasing the demand for everything everywhere driving down the price despite the taxes increasing the price for United States consumers.
vidarh
If you were able to demand higher prices even with lower demand, you would demand higher prices.
In other words: It doesn't work like that. They might want to try to make up for the loss, but they have to compete with other manufacturers, some of whom will be desperate to make up the sales at lower prices.
gloxkiqcza
With coffee maybe. With tech I doubt it. If US companies raise prices worldwide, companies from the rest of the world will be in a great position to gain market share, if they don’t (as far as economy of scale permits). If iPhones are suddenly 30% more expensive in the EU and Chinese phones keep their pricing, it’s going to drive Chinese phones market share up. Even more so for products that aren’t premium/compete on cost, like Google Pixels.
johnrgrace
Your understanding about OIL is very out of date. The US is the worlds largest oil producer and a net exporter of oil and oil based products.
The US does import some low quality cheaper crudes (heavy, sour) to be processed by US refineries that have much higher complexity and capital investment than other regions. Effectively people send their OIL to the US to be refined and that is where most of our imports come from.
croemer
Coffee futures prices do not include tariffs. They reflect the base market price of coffee for delivery at a future date, typically free on board (FOB) at a specified origin port (e.g., Brazil or Colombia). Tariffs, import duties, and local taxes are added later by the importer based on destination country policies.
Prices including tariffs might well go up but that's not what the article is about.
Since prices for consumers go up due to tariffs, demand goes down, hence prices ex-tariff go down. Standard stuff with tariffs, they make things cheaper on the outside.
ProjectArcturis
Ah, makes sense. I thought it was for delivery to a warehouse in the US, as so many other commodities are.
NickC25
Because coffee, as awesome as it is, is a consumer discretionary, not a consumer staple. You don't need coffee in the same vein you need a house, reliable transportation, a phone, sustenance food, etc.
Producers will lower prices if they fear that consumers will stop buying completely.
readthenotes1
"same vein" there are people who would iv it if they could.
It is a widespread addiction, tho. I would bet on more home brew and less Starbucks
pjc50
The expectation is that US consumers will reduce consumption rather than absorb higher prices.
Interesting effects for the rest of us with the cheap oil, though. I doubt it will offset the effects of reduced exports to the US but it usually has a positive effect on the economy.
awaaz
> cheap oil, though. I doubt it will offset the effects of reduced exports to the US but it usually has a positive effect on the economy.
And a terrible effect on the environment. But that's not what anybody is worried about right now.
sightbroke
Maybe if the price difference does indeed lead to more oil used.
Lower prices might be good for countries like Germany to stockpile for Winter (so oil & gas they'd already use anyways) while hurting producers that rely on it being a high price to be profitable.
Less profitable may lead to less investment in oil development while wind, solar, and other means become more prevalent.
bigbadfeline
I don't use oil but gas has been going up here (Midwest) in the past 2-3 weeks, since the big talk about tariffs started.
ajross
Coffee will be more expensive in the US. So Americans are expected to drink less, leaving more in the global market. So the commodities markets (which are effectively "futures" trading by nature of the industry) are dropping.
jayd16
Global demand is lower because US demand is lower, supply in the US is lower because prices are up.
Ends up making things cheaper globally but more expensive in the US.
jcranmer
It would get more expensive in the US, which means there's going to be less demand for it, which means the wholesale producer price is likely to fall due to oversupply.
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oldpersonintx
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Speaking as someone who lives in his minivan because he is homeless, I’m hoping this will turn out to be a net zero for me. Since oil is going down, gas prices are going to be much lower, but I’m afraid food prices, which is my only commonly purchased thing, are going to be much higher.
I have purchased several things that I might need in the future including a new 200 watt solar panel and a bunch of extra parts for my van. (My old solar panel is dying.).The one thing I have left to buy is an alternator, and possibly a larger solar battery.
This is how everyone living in poverty should be investing right now.