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Gumroad's Interestingly Timed "Open-Source" Play

burcs

That was a rough read, not really sure I understood the authors point. It was kind of all over the place, bad because AI, bad because not really open-source, bad because doge...

Only thing I really left with was the author doesn't like the word gum. Seems like a hit piece on Sahil? Pretty sure the open-source part of Gumroad has been in the works for a while.

wrasee

Right. Somewhat burred the lede. My take was that the value that services like Gumroad can bring is precisely the value-add they provide over what a create could do themselves. So if the CEO has chosen to essentially automate the entire business by replacing staff with AI, then what value-add is left exactly?

Better then to watch out for middlemen that "extract value rather than add it" and empower creators to host things themselves. Thought that was a nice observation.

Ironically, I always thought that was somewhat the point of Gumroad (short of self-hosting). Are they on to enshittification Stage II?

jrflowers

I like that you were able to succinctly summarize the issues raised here in one sentence and then not understand them in the next sentence

It is like “the author wrote about Athos, Porthos, and Aramis… what I got from this is the book is about hats?”

dragandj

Porthos was well known for wearing magnificent hats, though.

aprilthird2021

Extremely sad to see Sahil is working with DOGE in basically firing hundreds of thousands of Americans (that too disproportionately veterans) in the manner they have been doing it.

I have always liked reading his honest takes on running a company, their unique way of working with non-full-time employees, etc.

I wonder if he has posted about his work in this regard himself?

paulddraper

HN: "Why so many people to do X? This should be like a 20 person startup!"

Also HN: "No....!!! You can't downsize!!!"

ambicapter

Ah yes, running the US Federal Government and running Twitter are two completely comparable endeavours.

paulddraper

Which one is more efficient?

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aprilthird2021

Governments are public works projects basically to keep citizens employed, which is why they disproportionately hire veterans, for example.

Running a government as lean as X would also inspire corruption amongst a myriad of other things. This is one reason government jobs are so "cushy", to disincentivize corruption. If the pitch given to Sahil was "Run the government like X" I'm even more ashamed he accepted the premise.

dhosek

So what are the alternatives to gumroad? I’d been thinking of using them to sell the PDF version of a book, but after reading about the doge thing, I feel like I need to look elsewhere.

ninefoxgambit

I sell templates for a living and have used several of these providers.

The main options are Gumroad - high fees and ugly design, solid system never had issues does most what I need.

Lemon Squeezy - it was very popular until being acquired by stripe. Full of serious bugs, bad support. Lovely design, slightly better fees than Gumroad, but many hidden. Would still use over Gumroad just cause the Gumroad checkout design is so bad it loses sales imo.

Paddle - haven’t used it but I think it’s probably as good as Gumroad or Lemon.

Polar.sh - the trendy new option, most creators abandoning Lemon Squeezy are moving there. Has lots of innovation in features beyond payments such as selling private GitHub access.

All of these platforms are MOR as far as I know, all provide the checkout UI etc. all handle digital asset file delivery. They are perfect for creators selling digital products that want a turn key solution and don’t want to do any development work.

pier25

Polar.sh looks great. Do they accept PayPal payments? Probably half of my sales on Gumroad come from PP.

bigbadfeline

https://docs.polar.sh/merchant-of-record/fees >Polar is currently built on Stripe

Stripe supports paypal only in Europe, Switzerland, United Kingdom

999900000999

Honor System + a paypal donate link at the bottom of your page.

Itch has no mandatory cut at all.

Theirs an argument that taking any payment at all is more trouble than it’s worth.

Say you sell 15 copies of the book per month for 10$ each. After taxes and merchant fees , and the occasional chargeback, you’ll be lucky to net half.

Is 75$ a month really worth the stress ?

This is a part of why I’m going FOSS for my side projects. Even trying to collect a single legit dollar gives people a right to complain.

Of course you can complain on GitHub anyway when it doesn’t work right, but it’s MIT, fork , send a PR or leave me alone.

kamranjon

I use Shopify and it’s pretty dang nice, especially the shipping discounts you get as a smaller business. I’m not sure of many alternatives though, I just knew it by name so I chose it - there might be better ones out there.

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chris_pie

There's also Paddle (who's a Merchant of Record)

gkoberger

Stripe can likely do it with link.com, assuming you don’t need help with distribution

nikolas-

Lemon Squeezy (recently acquired by Stripe) has a native digital product solution (https://www.lemonsqueezy.com/ecommerce/digital-products)

oakesm9

The major benefit of a service like Gumroad is they are the merchant of record and handle worldwide taxes for you. Stripe does not do that (yet?)

rchaud

They announced the MOR feature in December 2024, so I wouldn't really say that's a big selling point for them just yet, they have been around for over a decade.

fuzztester

>taxes for you.

including EU VAT, last I checked.

thedangler

Plenty of options. I use sytescope.com with a funnel to sell subscriptions. You can sell digital content on there too and hook it up with lots of payment systems.

lovegrenoble

This one is top, using it for ages: https://getdpd.com

mrcwinn

>Someone recently made the point to me that the recent rise in low-code and AI-based tooling is likely going to separate out the platforms that solve tough problems

Former design assets marketplace CEO here. Wrong ^. Low-code gives you the tools to create a website. Great. Distribution is what disrupts. Platforms won because they aggregate traffic. When you break up the platform, you diffuse the traffic along with it.

The exception is sometimes there are whales: dominant content creators that win most of the clicks. If you're interested in a lot of people winning, I'm not sure that's really all that better or different from a platform.

ifyouknewone

A few months ago, I caught Gumroad trying to roll out MOR (Merchant Operator of Record) on Twitter and immediately called them out on it. They were attempting to launch this feature before it was even completed.

They were internally rolling it out globally, even for parts of the world without a taxation system to collect on. Nevertheless, Gumroad was still planning to apply these charges. This was despite the fact that there are countless existing and affordable platforms, 100,000 times more developed—that could seamlessly integrate with Gumroad and already have this system in place. However, they decided to build it themselves.

Why? I’m not entirely sure, but I’m willing to bet it has something to do with Sahil taking a position at DOGE and perhaps an effort to obscure payment activity.

Why else? All the other scaled and fully built systems are likely to face heavy scrutiny over the next 24 months. And if a system is "still being built" or "unfinished," I guess it’s much harder to comply with regulators or provide data in response to FOIA requests, isn’t it?

things that make you go hmmmmm.

solidsnack9000

How would "provide data in response to FOIA requests" impact Gumroad? FOIA requests are for information about the workings of government agencies, not companies.

ifyouknewone

when was the last time you saw anything inside the government work as intended? any paperwork submitted to a federal agency can be FOIA'd so that would be... the IRS

marcusb

> Why? I’m not entirely sure, but I’m willing to bet it has something to do with Sahil taking a position at DOGE and perhaps an effort to obscure payment activity.

Maybe they felt competitive pressure to offer a feature other payment providers have? Or, it could be a conspiracy theory involving DOGE.

Kye

Remember when the Gumroad account on Twitter doxed someone to win an argument?

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.

rideontime

I don't remember this, but I believe it, based on what I have seen of Sahil.

Kye

It's hard to find any documentation on it since the posts were deleted and Twitter isn't what it once was.

This is the best I could find: https://old.reddit.com/r/CorporateFacepalm/comments/sliby8/g...

rideontime

Oh, yep, that rings a bell. All of his misdeeds just kinda blur together in my memory into one vague, bad vibe.

colesantiago

Avoid Gumroad's service and using the open source code.

The Gumroad CEO has been using Devin for vibe coding their codebase which adds more risk of untested code and risks of more bugs since there are less vetted engineers in the company.

As with most tech / influencers overhyping technology, I'm assuming he has invested in Devin and other AI tools and has not disclosed it.

On top of the fact that Sahil has been working for DOGE is also another reason to avoid Gumroad.

You should just use Patreon, Stripe, BuyMeACoffee, Ko-fi, etc.

It would be great if there is a migration guide for creators such to move away from Gumroad as soon as possible.

ipsum2

Had to skip to basically the end to find out the reason:

tl;dr:

> On March 25, tech staffers and contractors at the VA noticed an unfamiliar name trying to push changes that could impact VA.gov code. It was Sahil Lavingia, a newcomer to the agency listed in the VA’s internal directory as an adviser to the chief of staff, Christopher Syrek.

> Who’s Sahil Lavingia, you might ask? Why, the founder and CEO of Gumroad! It’s not even the central point of the piece, but the fact is, if you’re supporting Gumroad—a tool that, notably, has survived as long as it did because of a high-profile crowdfunding campaign—you’re allowing its CEO the financial freedom to work in the Department of Veterans Affairs, at the behest of DOGE, for free.

wrasee

Same. But a nice observation in conclusion

> To me, I think that there is a real opportunity to take away the reins from middlemen who extract value rather than add it by leaning into things we host ourselves. Creators, for too long, have given too much power away to the company that made our lives mildly more convenient. If they’re trying to optimize to the nubs, destroying quality of service in the process, why even bother letting them have a lane in the middle?

firejake308

I would love to support creators directly, but there are some hard problems that creators need to solve before they begin direct-to-consumer sales:

1. Discoverability

2. Payments

3. Shipping

While it is theoretically possible to handle all of these without a middle-man, the middlemen running the marketplaces have thus far done a much better job than individuals could ever hope to.

wrasee

Personally I've never discovered anything on Gumroad itself. It's always been from some other source (here on HN, reddit, social media) and then followed a link to Gumroad.

Payments and shipping are precisely the kinds of things that could act as services directly to the creator itself. I thought that was somewhat the point of his conclusion - put these services directly in the hands of the creator.

Otherwise Gumroad is just acting as a payment + shipping wrapper. And if they're replacing what service they had left with AI, what value-add is left exactly?

turnsout

Man, I never had anything but positive feelings about Gumroad… But this is something I truly cannot support.

drawnwren

Great... we've been complaining about useless AI being forced upon us in the commercial sector and now YC alums are going to implement it in veteran healthcare through a backdoor?

I've been pretty neutral about the whole thing to date, but it's starting to seem like YC's AI blindness is actually explained by true evil capitalist intentions.

rapfaria

Something was off when gumroad's founder kept saying "AI now at junior dev level", "AI now at mid dev level" on twitter

danpalmer

Sahil seemed to join the tech startup sphere around the time I did, back in ~2009 when he was making iPhone apps. I remember beta-testing one of his apps on my first iPhone at the age of 17, I can't imagine he was much older.

He's always been a hustler, and I don't mean that in an entirely negative or positive way. He exemplifies startup hustle culture in a way that I sometimes envy for his ability to move quickly and churn out new things, but that comes at a cost. The cost is integrity, morals, resolution, whatever you want to call it. He's a mercenary with no particular loyalty.

Gumroad has a scandal every year or two, and they're always based on jumping on the latest bandwagon. The company itself was formed in the creator hype phase that birthed Patreon and Kickstarter, it has seemingly had a full reset (i.e. layoffs back to just Sahil) twice, once when they failed to make it big, once again when layoffs were cool. That he is on the LLM hype, in a hype-driven way rather than an actually effective way, is no surprise. And lastly that he has "open-sourced" the codebase again comes across as a cynical move rather than one done for the right reasons.

All this is to say that Sahil joining DOGE is entirely on brand, both in the sense of DOGE being the epitome of the worst of startup hustle culture (we can solve every problem from first principles with some shitty code, screw actual experience!), and in the sense that this is the next bandwagon that will make him cool. Like Zuckerberg, I think Sahil is just another insecure nerd who prioritises addressing that insecurity over standing up for themselves and their beliefs.

Aurornis

I also started following Sahil when I joined the startup world. His name seemed to be all over Twitter and HN. It was through him that I also started following Austen Allred. Sahil was the first guest on Austen’s podcast and the two of them showed up in a lot of articles together.

Both of them seemed like startup superheroes at the time. I remember being amazed when startup sphere heroes would Tweet praise about Sahil or when Paul Graham wrote one of his rare articles defending Austen Allred, of all topics.

It was a learning experience for me to watch as Gumroad laid off all of the engineers who built the site and then investors gifted the company to Sahil, leaving him to operate it as a profitable enterprise for himself while the early engineers saw their equity wiped out (though supposedly he helped some of them to unspecified degrees). It was further eye opening to see the collapse of Austen Allred’s Lambda School after watching Paul Graham and others sing its praises in ways that were at odds of the realities of their students.

I suppose it was all a valuable lesson in learning how to separate the hustler marketing from the reality.

I, too, have followed with interest as Sahil jumped from trend to trend. Pivoting hard into LLM assistants (including the flash-in-the-pan Devin AI coding tool which disappeared as quickly as it entered the scene) and now into DOGE isn’t too surprising. Meanwhile Austen Allred is off on a new pseudo bootcamp, pumping his Gauntlet AI bootcamp via Tweets about how their students are creating SaaS companies in weeks or something, nearly repeating the same marketing he was doing years ago about his bootcamp grads landing high paying jobs (including the famous sample size of 1 debacle).

Austen also swung hard right on his Tweets to the point of hurling expletives at people critical of Trump’s policies lately, which finally prompted me to give up on my curiousity follow. Seeing Sahil lean hard into DOGE is equally on brand.

It’s like these guys have such a deep drive to align with tech industry trends that they sense them coming, go all-in, and do the most status-seeking moves they can make to be seen as on top of those trends. I also don’t know what to say about it other than it’s been interesting to observe.

__mharrison__

I'm seriously considering writing a custom creator platform.

(I use Gumroad too, but my platform of choice just pulled the rug out from under me. I pay a substantial amount for "unlimited courses". Yet a month or so ago they informed me that while courses were unlimited, video uploads were not. They suggested I delete courses if I want to make new ones. I use this platform for public facing courses as well as private courses that I offer my clients. The support staff, while not a chatgpt, was not particularly helpful.)

timestep

Generally Gumroad itself is an amazing idea. It's challenging to push out products, and any platform that helps empower people to just try is a win.

I'm not sure about how the open-source element of this is supposed to work, but if it ends up with more people building things, creating and contributing, while making a dollar, that's a good thing.

9283409232

>When submitted a list of questions about his work for DOGE, Lavingia told Wired: “Sorry, I’m not going to answer these, besides to say I’m unpaid. And a fan of your work!”

Crazy to me that people have actually been convinced that a bunch of billionaires and millionaires have suddenly decided to work for the good of the American people free of charge.