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The Mensa Reading List for Grades 9-12

graemep

I hate reading lists like this, it is so prescriptive it will take the pleasure away. Even worse asking for an adult sign off and making it part of an "excellence program".

Read what you like, not what is on a list. There is room to guide and suggest, but fixed lists to tick off are absolutely horrible.

torginus

I think it's useful for young people to be exposed to what's widely regarded as some of the best-written books out there, so that they might get an idea of what a really well-written book looks like.

What good pacing, characterization, plotting looks like, how to convey a great idea to the reader, without sounding preachy or bore him to tears. And most importantly, how to weave all these elements together into a cohesive whole, as most masterpieces do.

This way they can have a somewhat more critical eye of the more mainstream fiction they'll likely consume in much greater quantity.

I find that most mainstream SF or fantasy books consist of the same foundational elements - but add fantastic concepts or spectacle to the mix, which might grab a certain amount of interest, but must get these foundations right in order for the novel to remain compelling

I think the act of writing is a lossy transformation - someone raised on a steady diet of only sci-fi novels is bound to be only be capable of writing a lesser sci-fi novel.

In order for a writer to reach at least the level of mainstream fiction, the writer must bring some extra from his own - either coming from non-fiction literature, life experience, the rare spark of original genius, or well-executed fundamentals in books like the ones mentioned on the reading list.

graemep

> I find that most mainstream SF or fantasy books consist of the same foundational elements - but add fantastic concepts or spectacle to the mix

I think they also broaden the mind, because they make people imagine how other societies could function, how technology could change things, what could exist in the universe we do not know etc.

Historical fiction, and even more actual old writing, has some of the same impact, but is limited to what has happened, rather than what could happen.

> I think it's useful for young people to be exposed to what's widely regarded as some of the best-written books out there, so that they might get an idea of what a really well-written book looks like.

I agree entirely, but a list you have to complete is not the wat to do it.

torginus

Apologies.. I kinda had trouble communicating the idea I had in mind - when I was bashing SF, I wasn't rallying against novels of Hugo and Nebula quality. The word I was looking for is genre fiction.

Lately I've been consuming more of it than I would admit in polite company - LitRPG, Military SF, YA stuff,. - and quite a bit of it is aimed at a younger audience.

A lot of this stuff is well written and engaging, but highly derivative, and is patterned on classics.

bodantogat

I completely agree. The joy of reading comes from discovering stories that you truly connect with—not from checking off titles on a set list. While some reading lists can be helpful for inspiration, I find the “100 books you must read” type a bit off-putting. They can unintentionally suggest there’s only one right way to be a “good reader,” which just isn’t true.

stratocumulus0

Reading lists really give people the idea that reading is some mechanical task that has to be done in fixed time and has a potential to be optimized. This is how speed reading classes were invented.

graemep

The ability to read fast is not a bad thing. The compulsion to is harmful. Ideally you read at the pace you enjoy or at which you best absorb what you need. Being able to read fast and slow down for the important or relevant (to you) bits can be very useful for learning.

everybodyknows

Also, don't take reading advice from semi-literates. FTA:

> The list doesn’t coddle, like the American mind has become.

"Coddle" is a verb. Minds do not "become" a verb. The sentence needs a rewrite.

edanm

Making a mistake in a large easy hardly makes someone semi-literate. Almost every book you've read has gone through extensive editing to find such mistakes, even the most skilled authors make them.

I thought it was a very well-written article.

biophysboy

The author claims they normally dislike must-read lists. I call their bluff: they seem a bit preoccupied with finding virtue, given their blog history. I doubt they will find it if they're surrendering judgment to the IQ club. Maybe its better than "10 hot summer reads", but its still an exercise regimen. Christopher Nguyen's "Value Capture" is a good rebuttal to this way of thinking.

drcwpl

I can see how my exploration of the Mensa list might come across differently than intended. My aim wasn't necessarily to endorse this specific list or the 'IQ club,' but rather to explore the experience, the friction and challenge, that comes from engaging with demanding texts, wherever they are found. For me, it was less about surrendering judgment and more about using the list as a specific, challenging prompt to sharpen critical thinking against difficult material. Perhaps 'exercise regimen' isn't far off, but ideally one that builds perspective rather than just ticking boxes.

Thanks for the recommendation on Christopher Nguyen's "Value Capture".

biophysboy

Fair enough! Ain't nothing wrong with a regimen - I just think reflecting and choosing is part of the challenge.

mrangle

It's supposed to be prescriptive because its a literature education list.

Where we may agree is that Mensa isn't in the business of measuring education, but instead of horsepower.

And the reading way toward maximizing a developing child's base ability to think is to read as much as possible, which will necessarily be what piques their fancy much of the time.

But literature education and recreational reading shouldn't mean one doesn't engage in the other. Every high performing child does both, at least to meet the the standards with which I'm familiar.

Still I'm unsure as to why Mensa feels the need to cobble together a basic prep school reading list, if wildly uncurated.

To your point, something more in line with their rasion d'etre might be to provide short best of lists for recreational, slightly advanced reading in age appropriate genres.

graemep

It would be not as bad if it was intended for schools, but even then its still too prescriptive to require kids to read everything. The list PDF ends with this above the space for signatures:

> By signing below, we attest that _____________________________________ has read a complete and unabridged version of all the books as recorded on the Excellence in Reading 9-12 grade list above, and that this record is true.

If it was a list of "good books you might enjoy reading", I would have no problem with it. it is the idea you must read them all, even ones you dislike, that I think is wrong.

In the case of the plays it is preferable to see them than to read them.

specialist

Older me thinks cultural literacy is important. Like the origin of idioms, catch phrases, parables, tropes, identity, etc.

Although I read A LOT as a kid, I skipped most of the classics. (Meaning: anything not sci-fi, fantasy, or non-fiction.)

Around 30yo, I got Gulliver's Travels as a gift. Wow. I loved it. Provided context for so many common clichés.

So I started to check other classics off the list (as able). I wish I'd started earlier. Face palm slap.

Good, bad, or indifferent, being exposed to the origins of ideas expanded my worldview and gave me appreciation for what followed.

graemep

I agree, and I encouraged my kids to read the classics, but I did not give them a list of stuff they must read. I suggested things I thought they would enjoy.

> Around 30yo, I got Gulliver's Travels as a gift. Wow. I loved it. Provided context for so many common clichés.

Another writer whose works are just a bunch of clichés. I was disappointed to find Shakespeare was the same. (that is supposed to be a joke, BTW).

I do not think it such a disaster to read those at 30. better to read them a bit later and enjoy them, than to read them earlier and not. What you enjoy does change over time.

I think the most important thing is to get kids to read, then to read anything reasonably good.

drcwpl

Exactly the point I made in the essay.

graemep

You are more positive than me about it.

You do have some different definitions attitudes to mine which may account for part of it. For example:

> It took me a while to realize the point of the whole exercise of the Mensa list. It’s not to become well-read. That’s a side effect. The point is to lose your smugness. To get knocked off balance by something older, stranger, smarter than you. To stop assuming you know it all.

I would say those are not two different things. If you have not been affected by things that are "older, stranger, smarter than you" you are not well read!

drcwpl

That is true... I certainly did not have that awareness when I was that age. I had a period locked in my room between 17 and 19 reading anything I could Bram Stoker, Dickens, 1st World war history and so on... but did for the joy and was not fully aware of the impact until much later.

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qoez

I agree. Though a lot of those books are great and something a person would probably want to have on their reading list.

kragen

Though the blog post is more thoughtful and reflective, here's the actual reading list (PDF warning): https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e...

Appallingly, it's alphabetized by title.

dfc

Appallingly? I am not sure how else it would be ordered? A random order would be rough. The kids would have to scan through the list in order to find the book they read to rate and date the entry.

kragen

Almost any other order would be better, though I agree that a truly random order would be slightly worse. These are mostly fiction, so in the library they are shelved by the author's surname. (If this idea didn't occur to you, presumably you have never been in a library, which makes me wonder why you are commenting at all.) You could also group them by century, by original language, by country of origin, by mood, by difficulty, by length, or by primary themes. Any of those would be superior in suggesting to you what books you might want to read next on the basis of books you had already read.

While we're at it, just listing that information for each title would also be very valuable, even without reordering the list.

staindk

Author's last name I think.

Balgair

I mean, if you're up to reading Brave New World, I'd think that scanning through a list to rate and date isn't that difficult.

Aside: The rating and date for reading is just strange for this level of reader, also the having an adult sign off on it. It just seems so juvenile for anyone that is really reading Don Quixote, Lord of the Flies, or many of the other books in the list. Something like a 4th grader would need to do, not a 17 year old. I get that it's mostly following the formula from the earlier grade levels, but still, it should be revised.

drcwpl

Thank you for sharing the link, I embedded it a few times. How the list is interesting (alphabetical) - I wonder how they are rated by Mensa grade 9-12 year olds overall

gerikson

Surprisingly middlebrow.

Balgair

Ha!

Honestly, that could be the tagline for MENSA as a whole.

sevensor

Not just middlebrow, old middlebrow. The Good Earth? The Nine Taylors? This is every college educated boomer’s aspirational reading list, a mix of books they liked and books they’ll never read.

mholm

I was surprised to see how many of these were already assigned high school reading at my public high school. We went through maybe a quarter of the list? I do disagree with making it a checklist. Some of these books will end up being an absolute slog with no value to their reader, and kill progress in the list. Great Expectations was like that for me, and later Pride and Prejudice.

kens

The article made this reading list seem like a good thing, but I looked at the reading list itself and it has a weird vibe. It is literally a checklist: "Check off the books as you read them." You're also supposed to rate each book from 1 to 5 stars, which is a weird way to engage with the books. At the end, you have to make a tax-form-like attestation that you have read "a complete and unabridged version of all the books and that this record is true", co-signed by an adult.

As for the list, it's basically a "Great works of Western literature" list that you'd expect to see in the 1970s. The concept seems to be that you must slog through the official important books (including The Fountainhead!) to prove your Mensan superiority, rather than encouraging a joy of reading.

The list: https://www.mensaforkids.org/achieve/excellence-in-reading/e...

wredcoll

At what point can you just read about a book instead of reading the actual book?

The Fountainhead seems like a good place to start...

glacier5674

Night is important, but I really don't recommend it for emotionally volatile teenagers. I was already mildly depressed when I was assigned it, and borderline suicidal after I finished it. Maybe read it in college when you have easier access to alcohol.

drcwpl

I should add that point as a comment on the essay, thank YOU - I will link to it

kragen

Night shocked me in a way I didn't know I could still be shocked. I think it has given me a very helpful perspective in the following 35 years.

Der_Einzige

There’s controversy about this book - claims that some or all of it was fabricated. Terrible book to teach the holocaust with since a lot of gen Z or alpha either doesn’t think the holocaust happened or thinks it should have been worse. Giving them a book of fabrications plays into this narrative.

“ Franklin argues that the power of the narrative was achieved at the cost of literal truth, and that to insist that the work is purely factual is to ignore its literary sophistication”

Wiesel wrote in 1967 about a visit to a rebbe (a Hasidic rabbi) who he had not seen for 20 years. The rebbe is upset to learn that Wiesel has become a writer, and wants to know what he writes. "Stories," Wiesel tells him, " ... true stories": About people you knew? "Yes, about people I might have known." About things that happened? "Yes, about things that happened or could have happened." But they did not? "No, not all of them did. In fact, some were invented from almost the beginning to almost the end." The Rebbe leaned forward as if to measure me up and said with more sorrow than anger: That means you are writing lies! I did not answer immediately. The scolded child within me had nothing to say in his defense. Yet, I had to justify myself: "Things are not that simple, Rebbe. Some events do take place but are not true; others are—although they never occurred."[68]“

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_(memoir)

It was the same year that I read this crap book that they forced me to read Lolita by Nabokov. I realized that year that “classic literature” was decadent and degenerate - and often so were my teachers!

drcwpl

Incidentally, I agree with you on Night. I have visited Auschwitz 3 times, read widely on the horrors. It is a disheartening, horrible, read and experience to visit, but something more should do, maybe we would have more peace in our world... although I doubt it.

drcwpl

haha - yes, in senior/high school my teachers were the same!

markus_zhang

Maybe just purchase a large quantity of books, or better, give free access to a library and let them pick anything they wish to read.

I'm picking up some SF and fantasy in my 40s but I feel the fire is gone somehow. There are few books that I'm willing to burn candles. It would be a lot more fun to read them when I was young.

drcwpl

Anything by Lem and some early Wells still provide great joy at the age of 61!

markus_zhang

Thanks for the recommendations, I'll definitely take a look.

Ah, wish I could claw back that feeling when I burnt candles to read the Dragonlance chronicles when 20.

wredcoll

Have you tried the murderbot diaries? Popular among most people and especially people here.

newer_vienna_1

Reminds me of the "Great Books" program that Liberal Arts colleges like St. Johns have adopted. https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/undergraduate/great-bo....

Also reminds me of philosopher John Senior's "Thousand Good Books" as a counter to the "Great books" -- heuristic that if you've heard of the book and it's old enough, then it's probably worth reading and studying. https://thelifetimereader.substack.com/p/the-thousand-good-b...

sn9

St John's also has an Eastern Classics master's program reading list for works from India, China, and Japan: https://www.sjc.edu/academic-programs/graduate/masters-easte...

Other good sources include the list of books in the back of Mortimer Adler's How To Read A Book for a Western Canon and Wm. Theodore de Bary's The Great Civilized Conversation: Education for a World Community and Finding Wisdom In The East Asian Classics for East Asian Canons.

drcwpl

Fabulous, I did not know about those resources, thank you. Will review carefully.

mrbluecoat

All reading lists will have books you don't care for (Moby-Dick) and books you think should have been included (Flowers for Algernon).

Just peruse the ones that look interesting to you, then move on to the next list.

fmxsh

While the reading list as a thing in itself seem to be criticized, I agree with the point of developing stamina and to become more capable of critical thinking. If the story element comes easier to some people, its a great approach. The point being to push the reader outside simplistic but comfortable thinking and build qualities able to confront the evident but often subtle complexities.

jkmcf

I would have expected a Mensa reading list for Americans to be in non-English languages. Maybe Homer in the original Greek.