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Supervisors often prefer rule breakers, up to a point

pdpi

Fundamentally, rules almost always come with compromises — for the sake of making rules understandable by humans, they have to be relatively simple. Simple rules for complex situations will always forbid some amount of good behaviour, and allow some bad behaviour. Many of society's parasites live in the space of "allowable bad behaviour", but there is a lot of value to knowing how to exploit the "forbidden good behaviour" space.

Enginerrrd

The worst of all worlds is when a blind application of the rules results in bad. behavior

This situation seems to come up frequently, and I'm very often appalled at how readily otherwise normal people will "follow the rules" even when it's clearly and objectively bad, and there may even be existing pathways to seek exceptions.

tossandthrow

In law there is the concept of "rules VS. Standards" which seems to relate to what you explain.

efavdb

Example?

pdpi

A classical example of legal bad behaviour is that of patent trolls.

biofox

For illegal good behaviour, see Aaron Swartz

dtech

Making food in public for homeless people runs afoul of food safety laws

s1artibartfast

For which side?

Most examples boil down to common sense. Nobody is going to arrest a 14 year old for driving their dying parent to the hospital.

Similarly, it is reprehensible but legal to pull up a chair and watch a child drown in a pool.

There is a difference between law and morality, and humans will use the second to selectively enforce the former.

randomNumber7

> Similarly, it is reprehensible but legal to pull up a chair and watch a child drown in a pool.

In which country? Even for the US I don't believe the law system is that crappy.

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lazide

Not the poster, but some examples;

- emotional support animals - take a penny, leave a penny - ‘discretion’ and speed limits - qualified immunity

billy99k

They prefer rule breakers because rigidly following the rules means things won't get done on time in almost all cases.

seeknotfind

Here's the dangerous way I put it that I only tell senior people: understand why rules were made and make sure the people who made them would be happy.

chias

I saw this put really, really well not too long ago:

> A lot of us got the message earlier in life that we had to wait for other's permission or encouragement to do things, when in fact, all you need is the ability to understand the situation and deal with the consequences

kqr

So fun to see other variations of this. I have for a while said

> You never need permission to do a good job.

But of course, it takes the experience to understand the nuances of what a good job is in the domain at hand, in the organisation and society at hand.

corytheboyd

I’m sure there’s a flashy way to say it, but yours reminds me of this one:

> Only ask for permission if you want to be told “no”

darkwater

> You never need permission to do a good job.

If you don't mind, I will steal this one.

pcthrowaway

The one I'm familiar with is:

> It's better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

Of course this can be used to justify all sorts of terrible things, but I've mainly seen it as pretty innocent in work environments when applying common sense.

nearting

> Here's the dangerous way I put it that I only tell senior people: understand why rules were made and make sure the people who made them would be happy.

If you aren't absolutely sure those senior people know what they're doing, the this is a great way to end up with originalism.

achierius

Frankly, most corporations do not last long enough for this to be a problem. Governments are their own issue, but without the political inertia and staying power of a nation-state, your organization will likely be long dead (or at least irrelevant and dying) before interpretations will drift that far. Most of the time, for most engineers, at least some of the people who made these rules in the first place are still around -- which helps ensure that nothing drifts too too far.

Of course there are exceptions, probably even upwards of 20% of the time, but we're talking generalities.

madrox

As a supervisor I didn’t resonate with this until I remembered in some jobs I have communicated the company attendance policy but didn’t enforce it unless someone was a poor performer. I trust adults to manage their own time until they give me a reason to believe otherwise.

For my part, I’d rather trust people’s judgment and intrinsic motivation than enforce the rules. Enforcement is annoying, tedious, and distracting to my mission. However once I decide their judgement can’t be trusted I use rules to extrinsically motivate them.

heymijo

And while this works for you, labor and employment attorneys use your non-standard application of the rules as a way to win lawsuits when brought against the company. Another way we end up with annoying, tedious, and distracting compliance (U.S. based take here).

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smeej

I can't work under more than three layers of management, largely because I've found that to be the practical maximum of managers who will care more about my results than whether I'm following the inefficient set of rules laid down when the target results were different.

I don't think this is a problem, exactly. It just means I'm the kind of person who works much better in startups than mega corps. I can't not notice all the ways poorly made rules get in the way of getting things done, but once we hit the fourth layer of management, at least one of them WILL be the kind of manager who has gotten ahead in their career by writing and enforcing rules.

All that means is that the company has grown to the point that it's time for me to move on to the next project.

(And before anybody asks, of course there are some rules that are incredibly important. Many of them are codified as laws. Most of the rest would bring down the company. If I'm not willing to work within those rules, the company is the wrong fit for me from the start, regardless of size.)

taeric

A more palatable phrasing, "supervisors prefer people that engage with the rules with purpose." That is, choosing to break a rule because you are making a cost call based on what you were able to achieve is not, necessarily, a bad thing.

The "point" where this fails, of course, is where the "cost" call above is such that the supervisor can't agree.

staunton

Sometimes, the goal is to create an environment where people must break certain rules to get anything done, which everyone (including supervisors) understands, but by way of imposing those rules responsibility and liability is transferred to subordinates.

taeric

I think those environments are bad, most likely? Why would it be a goal to make it so that people break rules?

Making people think about the rules? That is fine and good. Setting them to be broken, though? That just sounds broken.

InDubioProRubio

The use of private internet access for work is denied. Doing so, shifts all responsibility from the IT-department on the private citizen. The WiFi is currently out of service.

tyleo

You sound like a supervisor there ;)

“They didn’t break the rule! They engaged in the rules with purpose unlike those rule followers.”

Though I’m not advocating your approach is incorrect.

taeric

Worse, I'm a parent! :D

lazide

Someone who follows the rule even when it produces a terrible outcome is a painful liability. Just like someone who breaks the rule to do the same thing.

neilv

> “Rule breaking appears to signal a team member’s commitment—a willingness to do whatever it takes to get the job done,” wrote Wakeman, Yang, and Moore, all of whom are hockey fans.

Beyond "taking one for the team", in business, I didn't see the article make some key distinctions:

* What is the origin of the rules? (Originated in the interests of the organization, or came from outside, such as regulatory requirements.)

* How much does the organization care about the rules? (Some rules they just need to make a paper trail show of effort, and worst impact is a transactional cost-of-business fine, or an unflattering news cycle. Other rule violations could dethrone a CEO, or even send them to prison.)

* Would the organization actually love to get away with violating that rule, when the right individual comes along to execute it without getting caught? (Say, some very lucrative financial scheme that's disallowed by regulations.)

* How aligned is the manager with the organization wrt the rules in question? (Say, the company actually really doesn't want people to violate this one rule, but a manager gets bonuses and promotions when their reports have the advantage of breaking the rule.)

Depending on those answers, a manager's claim of "Doing what it takes to get the job done!" can sound very different.

rblatz

Anecdotally I’ve heard from professional athletes that steroid use is actually liked by coaches because it gives them better control over the locker room. If someone becomes an issue in the locker room, guess who is getting randomly selected for testing without a heads up warning.

sudoshred

Similar thinking applies in other fields as well I am sure.

neuroelectron

Hard to see the negatives. Rule breakers allow you to reap the rewards while removing liability.

nine_zeros

Every supervisor ever: Look my team is just an awesome team that achieves all goals by breaking rules. I was the fearless leader to lead them.

Same supervisor when caught breaking rules: Rogue employee. Nothing to do with me. Will fire them.

wright-goes

Good point. Though if they change the rules after breaking them, will history remember?

Looking at uber, any number of social media companies, etc., having some good lobbyists works wonders.

jillesvangurp

As one of my friends used to joke: "rules are for other people".

I live in a place that loves rules (Germany) and I come from one (Netherlands) that has people like I just quoted taking a more relaxed attitude to rules. Being pragmatic about rules and not placing blind trust in them is key to being able to adapt to changing circumstances.

Germany is having a hard time adjusting to modern times. It's something that's being complained about a lot in the country. The topic of "Digitization" (capitalized, because that's a German grammar rule) has been a topic in elections for the last 20 years or so. They can't do it. There are rules that say that only paper signatures are valid. Never mind that this rule has been challenged, relaxed, etc. They stubbornly revert to doing everything on paper. It's infuriatingly stupid. You get this whole ritual of people printing paper, handing out copies, and insisting it's all done in person. I get plenty of docusign documents to sign as well these days. So I know that this perfectly acceptable. For official documents for the tax office even (via my accountant). It's fine. This rule no longer applies. But try explaining that to Germans.

Breaking rules when they stop making sense and don't apply to changed circumstances is a sign of intelligence. Supervisors can't foresee all circumstances and they like people that can think for themselves that can adjust and follow the spirit of the rule rather than the letter of the rule.

AllegedAlec

David Snowden does/did a lot of talks about these, how hard rules break catastrophically and you need systems of constraints with flexible rules which have rules baked in about when and how you can break the rules.

Worth looking up the talks they have on youtube. Just be prepared to hear the same few anecdotes 50 times.

terramars

"We found that when people broke the rules, teams were less likely to win games."

This seems like a prima facie bad conclusion to their hockey study, considering that the Panthers won the cup while being effectively tied for the lead in penalty minutes, with #3 not being particularly close. Yes there's a weak correlation between penalties and losing, but considering that the absolute best teams usually have a high rat index, there's a big lost opportunity to go into the rat factor in hockey and how it translates to the corporate world!