Show HN: Duolingo-style exercises but with real-world content like the news
174 comments
·April 1, 2025gwd
One more thing, just in general: Some people are complaining that some languages work better than others. This seems to be a common issue now with the availability of AI (both voice recognition and LLMs): there's a temptation to expand into as many languages as possible, simply because you can.
My advice would be to have languages default to an "alpha" state, and only progress them to "beta" and "1.0" state when they reach certain milestones, as defined by community feedback.
ph4evers
Agreed. That's why the exercises are only there for a couple of selected languages. But even there it can be tricky. The model is less confident in Dutch than in English, so I have to experiment a bit with what is best for having a variety of content and quality.
dicytea
I've checked out the Japanese one, but I'd say that it's definitely no where near "real-world content" IMO. Just the usual tortuously slow-paced, artificially dumbed-down dialogue you'd expect out of classroom recordings.
Most of the videos also contain subtitles, which defeats the purpose of the exercises (you can disable the video manually though). Another issue is that some of the words are segmented very unnaturally (e.g. [み][ません]), so it's unclear how you're expected to fill them in.
In the end if what you really want is "real-world content", then you just need to go out there and find them yourselves - they're everywhere.
raincole
> Another issue is that some of the words are segmented very unnaturally
I immediately noticed that too. Are the "gaps" generated by an LLM? I think the model might not understand Japanese very well.
yorwba
It's a bit like segmenting "don't see" into "don't" and "see." ません is the negative of the auxiliary ます just as "don't" is the negative of the auxiliary "do." If you have to split Japanese text into words and want to be principled about it, treating ません as a separate word is not a bad way to go about it.
But of course there are other ways, so a "fill in the blank" question with two gaps right next to each other is generally a bad idea.
raincole
The point is not that you can't cut みません into み and ません. The point is that it should be one single gap in the first place.
It's like cutting gaps out of English sentence like this: I'm [go][ing] to beat the shit out of that guy. Sure we know the logical way to break down 'going' is 'go' and '-ing', but it should be one single gap anyway.
owenpalmer
+1 this definitely makes sense, since you're gonna have a million verbs ending in "masen", just make it a separate word and understand that it's just part of the conjugation.
oregoncurtis
I agree, several little issues with Japanese that don't make it currently useful. Cool idea though!
hrydgard
Great stuff!
Small UX thing: Make it so you can just click a word to fill in the next empty spot, instead of having to drag, similar to when building sentences in Duolingo. Especially when not on a touchscreen, having to drag is pretty painful and reduces accessibility.
mirekrusin
Aaa, you saved me, thought it's broken, but you have to drag this thing!
ps. video shouldn't loop as default, it's annoying.
drob518
I actually like the default looping. When I’m learning and trying to train my ear, I need to listen to the phrase over and over and it’s helpful to not have to click play again.
hoseyor
You didn’t even read the most basic settings that clearly say “click and drag interface” or something similar. But I still agree, tapping/clicking should work in sequential order eventually (it’s not as easy to implement).
Re, looping; there are controls to turn it off. You aren’t paying attention one bit. If you’re going to say things, at least be diligent in the things you are going to address.
ketralnis
I also don't read all of the terms and conditions, and I feel free to get mad at unreasonable items that I discovered while using the product. Fight me.
raincole
FYI: when people say "X is default and it's annoying", it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't know how to turn off X.
hombre_fatal
You don't need to be so combative in this feedback thread for someone's language learning app.
whycome
It’s not clear that those controls are for the video on first glance. I thought they referred to the exercise itself (eg, restart exercise).
I think you’re not thinking like a new user.
ph4evers
Will do. I also like the click to place more than dragging & dropping.
iambateman
This has a ton of potential! Keep going!
Duolingo is tough because they set the expectation that this should be free, so you're walking into a challenging business.
But I think the concept is fundamentally better to connect language learning to something entertaining and relevant. If you can make that work, you have a heck of an app.
You can do it!
beardedwizard
The trick to competing with Duolingo is to _actually_ teach people new languages that they actually learn, rather than giving away the illusion that they are learning a new language on Duolingo.
mlsu
Is it?
At the end of the day, whether it's effective or not, Duolingo sells the feeling that you are learning a language to people. Winning a competition with Duolingo means doing better at making people feel like they are learning a language -- the strategy to win against Duolingo probably involves watering down the learning even more, to better sell the feeling.
A good way to think about it is look at some organization that wants to be effective at actually teaching its employees a new language, like the state department:
https://www.state.gov/foreign-service-institute/foreign-lang...
20 hours a week of intensive instruction.
Spanish 30 weeks Cantonese 88 weeks Turkish 44 weeks
This is what it actually takes.
jpcom
Yes, it takes commitment to master a language. In the case of Japanese, which traditionally takes the most weeks to master when coming from English, we made Japanese Complete based on frequency analysis to help speed up the process of acquisition. With 777 kanji carefully selected by frequency you can get 90% coverage of kanji in the wild. This is about a third of the "daily use" set of ~2200 kanji so the process is greatly accelerated. If you're interested in seeing what 777 kanji look like, I recently created a small kanji quiz game that quizzes by English meaning words [0].
yieldcrv
there is an underserved audience that wants an engaging way to learn a language and are disillusioned with Duolingo already
Duolingo is for people that will never travel for more than a weekend once every other year, and its fine that its entertaining for them or their last minute crash course to feel less ignorant. Lately I've seen it used by people that want to feel closer to their roots.
But I don't think people actually engaging with other cultures and going abroad to do so are still using this. On the other hand, LLM's are really good at slang and colloquialisms, something neither Duolingo or an in person teacher will reveal to you.
alchemyzach
True but then I remember that most people are just paying for the feeling. There's millions to be made actually teaching people stuff (learning is hard) but there are billions to be made making people feel like they are.
That said, I do think betting against Duolingo will pay off long term. But the put options are so expensive... probably better to just short the shares
matwood
> rather than giving away the illusion that they are learning a new language on Duolingo
I disagree that it's an illusion. People are learning a new language when using Duolingo, but 5-10 minutes/day means it will take a long time before they are proficient. Someone else linked to the state department website showing 550-690 hours of learning required on the English adjacent languages.
throwaway29812
[dead]
ph4evers
Thanks! Competing with the giant like Duolingo is hard. But I believe that there is an edge, especially if these transcription models keep improving. I find them quite good already but simple mistakes are very off-putting.
rurp
One minor but very nice aspect of the UX is that I was able to click the link and immediately try it out. I wasn't even planning to really use it but ended up completing a round. My only complaint is that the drag and drop is kind of annoying as the default selection process, clicking would feel more natural.
For comparison I tried doing the same with Duolingo and the UX is much, much worse. After multiple clicks and two noticeably long loading screens the first question I got was "How did you hear about Duolingo?" followed by a question about why I'm using the product. Blech! I wanted to try out the product, not help their marketing department.
philipjoubert
This is great - I've actually started building something similar myself a few months ago.
Requests:
- Split Spanish between Spain and Latin America
- Add difficulty levels (consider speaking speed and vocabulary used)
- Ability to select which topics I want the videos to be about (e.g. science, celebrity gossip, AI)
ph4evers
Thanks!
> Split Spanish between Spain and Latin America Will do!
> Add difficulty levels (consider speaking speed and vocabulary used)
I'm working on splitting it up in easy/normal videos. That should be do-able to assess.
> Ability to select which topics I want the videos to be about (e.g. science, celebrity gossip, AI)
I'm thinking about creating a browser plugin where you can tick a box to automatically import it into Fluentsubs. Or create an exercise from an existing video. It will take minutes before it is fully transcribed but it can be a nice way to prep your own content without people blaming me that I serve biased content.
I'm not sure though if people are willing to install browser plugins. I'm always a bit weiry with plugins that are invasive on websites like YouTube.
nbcesar
+1 to splitting Spanish. Even better is picking a Spanish speaking country and listening to news from that specific country.
pajop
This is so good! I've been looking for a tool that will simulate the "listen to the Spiderman movie 50x" experiment https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eliB_y0fmSk and this site can do it!
hk__2
I tried an exercise with Italian, but for some reason one of the words is not in the list to drag and drop ("qualcuno"), so I’m stuck: https://app.fluentsubs.com/exercises/cm8y1r2cv004m8v1pr775ko...
Edit: also tried in French, and it shows some words in red (I guess that means "invalid" -- please don’t convey information with color only) although they are correct: https://app.fluentsubs.com/exercises/cm8y1o6d5002s8v1p2h0m2f...
ph4evers
Thank you for trying and the feedback!
I'm working on improving the feedback. It is a bit confusing since some words are very similar so you have no idea what went wrong.
I checked the Italian video. But I don't fully understand: https://imgur.com/a/YcF3dnb . It doesn't pick qualcuno as a filler word. Is it still broken?
tom2948329494
Just a quick note – the "Configure Your Exercise" step was a bit confusing. It took me a while to figure out what “Number of Gaps” even meant, since that’s not something I’d usually think about configuring.
Also, choosing an input method felt tricky. I hadn’t used the product yet, so I didn’t really know what to pick or what would work best for me.
Once I got into the app, everything made sense, but it wasn’t clear upfront.
Maybe you could let people start with a default setup and explore the options while using it. That way, the learning happens more naturally and the config step doesn’t feel like a blocker.
slab_city
Not knowing what "number of gaps" means has no consequence. Just use the app.
setsewerd
If that's true then why include it at all? From a UX perspective you don't want to throw a bunch of configuration options at the user before they even know what the options mean.
tom2948329494
It's a hurdle people have to take; and its eating from their 1.5second attention span. Some will get stuck or leave. OP asked for thoughts, this is to help him convert more people.
sergiosgc
Great idea, nice proof of concept. It'd be nice to see a translation into English after we finish the sentence, as it'll inevitably introduce words I don't known yet, and there's a learning opportunity.
ph4evers
Thanks! It is available on Desktop immediately after you finish a segment. I'm thinking of bringing it back to mobile. I made it a toggle to save some space on small devices
whycome
The few UX things can make for a really frustrating experience. You don’t want to push away your users in their first testing.
1. Change the word “gaps” to “blanks” for English audiences. It fits the common phrase “fill in the blanks” better. And maybe call it that too.
2. Don’t make the blocks move around for the drag and drop. It makes for a frustratingly slow process to find where the word you were about to grab moved to.
3. Don’t just correct a wrong answer, show what the user chose. I had too many moments where I was convinced the answer was what I had selected. Even using the red/green doesn’t quite make sense if you’ve replaced an incorrect answer with a now correct answer.
3. Consider doing the check after all words have been dropped in so they can read the sentence as a whole. And thus give them the chance to change their word choice.
Vinnl
I just tried the Dutch (my native language) version, and it looks neat, but at some point it asked me to type Emmeloord, which is a small town in the Netherlands. That would be very challenging for someone learning the language without being relatively familiar with the Netherlands, so maybe you can tell the LLM to avoid names?
ph4evers
Hah thanks for the suggestion. I'll make it more strict!
I've been working on a little side project that combines Duolingo-like listening comprehension exercises with real content .
Every video is transcribed to get much better transcripts than the closed captions. I filter on high quality transcripts, and afterwards a LLM selects only plausible segments for the exercises. This seems to work well for quality control and seems to be reliable enough for these short exercises.
Would love your thoughts!