Trump's attacks on universities get darker, with shadows reaching our shores
175 comments
·March 29, 2025mesk
darkwater
> while revisiting history to avoid dangerous words such as a 'women'...
What happened? I missed that (I'm not ironic, I would really like to know what else they did).
fabian2k
I suspect this refers to the list of words that are used to filter out and likely cancel or block various grants. Those words are about what the current US government considers DEI, but they are ridiculously broad and include words like "woman".
acdha
I know people who have had to defend their grant-funded research using terms like “inclusion” (geology) or “diversity” (of samples).
Growing up at the end of the Cold War with basically every major political figure decrying the USSR’s political apparatchiks monitoring everything, I never expected that to happen here but having watched the right’s embrace of Orban it wasn’t a surprise by the time it happened. The guys who brought us “freedom fries” crowded everyone else out of the party.
rurp
Projects are being killed across the government for exactly this reason. If anything it's even dumber than it sounds. If any word in a project or department title string matches a list of common terms it can get killed with zero investigation or recourse. Billions of dollars worth of research and work have already been destroyed in this way and it's only getting worse.
vkou
The politicians aren't idiots, they don't actually believe anything they say.
The idiots are the people whose support they politicians are courting.
hapticmonkey
The recent signal leak shows that they really do believe this stuff. insert american flag and prayer emojis
lotsofpulp
The vice president writing they were going to pray makes me think the editor of the Atlantic was intentionally added to the chat.
I don’t see how it could be believable that Vance is actually religious and isn’t just using it as a way to get votes.
sofixa
Some of them are. Have you ever heard anything said by the current US president? It's just incoherent rambling.
Then we also have the Signal chat, and even biographies and books by some of the others that makes it clear done of these people are genuinely dumb as fuck.
matwood
> Have you ever heard anything said by the current US president? It's just incoherent rambling.
Which is ironic considering all we heard from MAGA/Fox for the last 4 years is that Biden was incoherent and senile.
atoav
This was true 8 years ago. Now I wouldn't be so sure about it anymore. I wouldn't make a bet that there isn't a single Republican out there who truly believes in some of the crazy stuff they are saying.
But of course the survival of crazy policies hinges on people willing to elect politicians who will implement them. And that in turn hinges on how well you disinform them.
yapyap
whether you pretend to be an idiot and do idiotic things or are an idiot and do idiotic things doesn’t matter, the outcome is the same.
Matter of fact pretending to be an idiot and doing idiotic things might be worse cause you know better, an idiot’s excuse would be that that’s all they know to do.
johnisgood
Most of what you said applies to the UK as well, for what it's worth.
eterm
It really doesn't, that's Fox news level of propaganda.
Does the UK have an issue with over-policing of twitter? Absolutely it does.
Are the tightening of protest laws concerning? Yes, very much so.
But it's nothing like the rhetoric and destruction of due process happening in the USA.
lucasRW
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marcuschong
While there is legitimate debate over how authoritarian some policies in Australia or the UK might be in the past few years, these measures operate within established legal frameworks, with judicial oversight and public scrutiny. Even if you view them as overly restrictive, they don't stem from a single "contrarian" movement with a coordinated political agenda. Moreover, neither government is rewriting history to erase specific groups. The fact that hate-speech or migration laws exist doesn’t equate to people being arrested or deported without due process, nor does it imply some monolithic campaign to censor or remove entire populations from the record.
johnisgood
You are right, the UK adores mass migration, look around larger cities, such as London or Birmingham. :)
sofixa
Does it now, dear whatabouter?
People are getting arrested and deported with no due process for expressing opinions? The UK government is rewriting history to remove women and gays?
No, you're just confusing the existence of hate crimes in UK law, and maybe the dumb migrant detention in Rwanda scheme (which has since been cancelled), both of which have due process, are public, and ridiculous to compare.
johnisgood
You missed the first word of my comment.
Additionally, yeah there have been "social media offenses" in the recent years. Individuals have been arrested for comments made on social media platforms. Try it out. Communications Act 2003 come to mind.
Are people not entitled to lawyers in the US?
In any case, there is authority overreach in both countries (and more).
jmyeet
I say without any hyperbole that what we're witnessing is the end of American empire.
So-called "accelerationists" are excited about this. But empires take a long time to die and go out with a bang rather than just fading peacefully into history.
What we're witnessing with universities and the illegal black-bagging of legal visitors and permanent residents is an unprecedented assault on the First Amendment. Only the McCarthy era probably comes close. We are very much in the era of thoughtcrime [1].
Fascism flames out because when loyalty is the only thing that matters, the administration turns into sycophantic morons. The courts won't save us. They've long since been subverted, a key pillar of the 50+ year Republican Project. There is no serious opposition to any of this.
There is no safe haven from this either. It's not Europe. Just look at the elections and political momentum in the UK, France, Germany and Hungary.
What's sad is the number of people who champion this as if it's going to make their lives any better. But cruelty, revenge and repression is the point. There are an awful lot of people who have legitimate grievances about the destruction of their standard of living, their material conditions. Yet nobody has done anything to address those concerns.
Things are going to get very, very bad.
twixfel
The US is in a far worse state than those countries you listed sans Hungary. What doesn’t help of course is that the US seems determined to export American fascism back over the Atlantic.
BigglesB
Anyone who might dismiss this as being just a few isolated cases — or who think it is desirable to just remove political opponents from the equation — should think long and hard about what it will actually take to maintain this kind of “criminalisation of dissent” over the long term… escalation is inevitable.
There is clearly an intentional narrative being pushed that defines anyone who disagrees with the current administration’s ideology as an enemy who should be punished. Even if the risk to any one person is currently relatively small, just the threat itself will have profound effects on individual’s decisions.
A massive brain drain seems inevitable but such a war on free speech will also radicalise people, even if it starts only in whispers. That will likely necessitate further oppressive measures to “stamp it out” and so forth, creating a vicious cycle. With each iteration the stakes increase, justifying increasingly violent measures & countermeasures on both sides, further increasing the consequences of — and the need avoid — actually being held accountable for those actions…
bko
I'm concerned about this as well. If this keeps progressing, we could see a monoculture develop among elite institutions and media where the shots are being called by three letter agencies. We could get to a place where federal agencies are working directly with social media companies to coordinate censorship of dissent and set speech guidelines. If they don't oblige they'll be threatened with arbitrary enforcement and getting dragged out in front of Congress.
Eventually there could be an entire political capture of these social media companies, universities, journalists, NGOS etc where 90%+ of its employees subscribe to one political party .
But it gets even worse. If this continues we could see activist judges try to throw political rivals in jail. They would even change the law in order to try to get them to go to prison, combining misdemeanors into felonies.
And this says nothing about the rhetoric. By casting political opponents as villains, this invites assassination attempts and general lawlessness to intimidate people perceived as not falling in line. By this point the media will be complicit so there will be no investigation into these activities. Even a failed assassination attempt would be at most a few day story with no reporting on motive or coordination.
I too am very concerned about all of this.
cogman10
So the final solution is a masked police force abducting people off the streets and rushing them onto a flight to a death camp in El Salvador?
I get you are being cute, but let's be real. Nothing "the left" did compares to this.
bko
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f38zf5vdt
"Let's do all of this, but much worse, with more corruption, and more violently" is a weird response to perceived political grievances. Like how Leninist critiques of the Russian monarchy and subsequent revolution lead to a system at least as bad as that of the Tsar.
If you want to deconstruct the status quo, make sure that your outcomes will be actually be better for you. Even Stalin ended up as a victim of his regime at the end of days, his physician ending up arrested and being interrogated while his health declined.
jhp123
There is an old documentary called "the Revolution will not be Televised" about the Chavez presidency in Venezuela. If you watch it you will come away feeling that Chavez was treated pretty unfairly by the rightist media and "deep state" who attempted to overthrow his Presidency.
But even if that is true, it is also true that Chavez took many actions to centralize power, erode democratic safeguards in the Constitution, control the media and destroy the opposition parties. Every step was justified by pointing to the horrible rightist conspiracy against Chavez. But the end result was a dictatorship and the absolute ruin of the Venezuelan state.
This is normal for dictators. Many cast themselves as victims. Stalin was pressed on all sides by Capitalists, Kulaks, and Trotskyists. Hitler, of course, by Jews and Communists. Whether the accusations are pure fantasy or rooted in some level of real persecution of the movement, it is very important not to allow them to be used to justify the establishment of tyranny.
hypeatei
> where federal agencies are working directly with social media companies
When did this happen? If you're referring to the "Twitter files", then you're take on this is very misinformed and the government did not coerce Twitter to suppress the laptop story. It was even found that Republicans submitted so many similar requests that Twitter had to keep a special database to track those requests.
The right wing has a weird persecution complex while they have the biggest cable news network in the US (Fox News), just got control of all three branches of government, and had a billionaire buy Twitter for them to help their guy win.
Will you only be satisfied if everyone agrees with you and drinks the Trump kool-aid? Also note that the "other" political party you're referring to didn't deny the election results and try to overthrow the government.
archagon
I don’t quite recall Biden storming the Capitol, phoning politicians to “find votes,” and sending in a slate of fake electors to subvert the democratic process. But sure, the “activist judges” and their “lawfare” are the real problem here. Not, say, Judge Cannon punting and deferring rock-solid cases without precedent until it’s too late.
Fucking horseshit.
unraveller
What is a Culture War?
cheema33
All of this seems to borrow ideas from Putin's playbook. I never realized how strong of an appetite certain segment of US population has for authoritarianism.
te_chris
There was a survey done recently and the GOP is about as rightwing and authoritarian in outlook as the Russians.
Miles beyond most other right wing parties. https://on.ft.com/4iqh3qA
throwfree
[dead]
yyyk
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freehorse
Whatever one may think about them, "protests, cancellation or boycotts" are not anywhere close to being governmental actions as those discussed here, so I would not call that "already happened" with "slightly different means".
bhouston
> This had already happened for a long while in the US, it just used slightly different means like protests, cancellation or boycotts, just the victims were from the other side.
It sounds like this is viewed as revenge? The trend of using state power as revenge against groups one doesn't like is problematic and can be escalatory. As it escalates, eventually groups will fear the loss state power and that can lead to the end of democracy.
ptero
I see it not as revenge but as actions of a deeply broken system. Which broke well before the last elections.
We cannot just wish the current administration away. It is the result of the fact that the US system is seen as broken by many outside of coastal elites. And that they do not like being trodden on in the names of covid, climate or equity.
The sooner the opponents of the current administration start working on issues that matter to people they lost (instead of going further left and screaming louder), the less damage Trump can inflict. My 2c.
davidgrenier
There's only one "other side" in this, it's the American people.
null
Frieren
Citizens protests = Government oppression
Is that your opinion? Just let me tell you that I politely disagree with your weird assessment.
sorcerer-mar
As does the Constitution, of course.
regularjack
I don't understand how someone can legitimate think this.
Havoc
US in general seems to be getting real dark real fast.
Definitely preferred the old somewhat comical "We're the only country with freedom" vibe they had going.
khaledh
Right? What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"?
throw0101d
> What happened to "they hate us for our freedom"?
The hate is still there, but the "they" is now Trump/GOP and friends.
Lots of politically-right folks in the US have been a fan Hungary's Orban for a while now:
* https://apnews.com/article/2022-midterm-elections-donald-tru...
* https://newrepublic.com/article/175368/why-republicans-love-...
* https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/dec/10/hungary-vikt...
null
gherkinnn
ACOUP was right it seems. Not only can Bret dissect siege warfare in popular culture, he was capable of seeing the obvious.
https://acoup.blog/2024/10/25/new-acquisitions-1933-and-the-...
throw0101d
Three professors from Yale who study fascism are leaving to go to the University of Toronto (Canada):
* https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2025/03/27/three-prominent-ya...
labster
Another related article, three Yale professors are leaving for Canada: https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/28/us/yale-university-scholars-t...
Brain drain is happening in real time.
dmazin
Related: "as part of the Brains for Brussels initiative, VUB aims to actively attract American professors looking to relocate"
https://www.brusselstimes.com/1490737/brussels-university-vu...
thaumasiotes
The three professors:
https://history.yale.edu/people/timothy-snyder
bigfudge
Surely a brain drain of liberal arts professors is part of the plan though? Will be interesting to see engineers/pharma/mathematicians also leave. US doesn’t look like a nice place to be in the next few years so perhaps they will.
2muchcoffeeman
Those are history professors though. I don't want to disparage other lib arts, but the historians are at least looking at what has happened when countries become fascist states. Could they have recognised all the warning signs?
hjgjhyuhy
Yep, it’s an interesting social experiment. USA is becoming like Russia, with fake democracy and robber baron oligarchy that does whatever it wants. Many people are going to be OK with it, as long as they think it benefits them personally. But I’m not sure many in academia will be among those.
I bet China, India and EU will soon overtake America in sciences. Made in America may yet become the new made in Bangladesh.
pandemic_region
Next up: Trump signing an executive order forbidding top level academics to leave US soil ? Or maybe Russian style: we'll see an increase of mysterious accidents and suicides amongst high profile dissidents?
bhouston
If Trump and his intellectual descendants stay in power, it is very likely they take Canada eventually, probably starting with Alberta.
Fun fact, the leader of Alberta is hanging around Trump and others in his orbit a ton and having a generally great time. That isn't a coincidence:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/edmonton/article/danielle-smith-has-g...
vachina
I do not really understand this line of thought of USA invading Canada. What’s in it for them? Canada isn’t some helpless third world with oil that they can exploit, Canada can and will retaliate.
bhouston
> Canada isn’t some helpless third world with oil that they can exploit, Canada can and will retaliate
Canada can retaliate in a trade war, but if it is real annexation/invasion, Canada cannot effectively fight back. It would be a walk in the park for the US. We do not have the military resources, our popular is 1/10 the US, and our weapons are mostly supplied by the US, so they may not even work in a real war. And unlike with the Russian invasion of Ukraine, no one is coming to our aid.
Also the US would likely do it incrementally and start with a friendly province like Alberta, where a significant minority may even welcome it.
laverya
Third world countries unironically have bigger militaries than Canada.
Certainly Iraq pre-invasion made them look like a pushover!
That's not to say that invading would be painless, but let's not pretend that Canada would have a chance.
archagon
Contiguity on the map. (Yes, really.) Empire-building.
notnullorvoid
I wouldn't worry about that. Alberta had a pretty close election, and if their current premier Danielle Smith even hinted at the proposition of joining the US she would never win another election again. Not to mention that the federal government of Canada would also have to be on board for a province to seperate.
bhouston
> Not to mention that the federal government of Canada would also have to be on board for a province to seperate.
You may be right about the other aspects, but "annexation", which Trump has proposed, isn't a negotiated thing, it is something that is forced.
perihelions
And yet, Carrie Lam did sell out Hong Kong to Chinese annexation, and was silent as student protest leaders were black-bagged and dragged off to the mainland for torturing. Her approval rating at that point bottomed out in the single digits; but that is what she did.
Not every politician is motivated solely by winning one more election.
If US annexation of Canada started to look like a fait accompli, and Trump was threatening terrible retributions for anyone who resisted him—which politicians would resist, and which would become Carrie Lams, or Pétains?
CalRobert
Come to Europe and join your local army reserve! Hard for non citizens though.
Hojojo
There's always the French foreign legion. Ukraine has one too.
2muchcoffeeman
Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed?
Its just crazy. Are they seriously going to bully current allies and start wars with them?
bhouston
> Are you following events and making highly speculative judgements or can you see evidence this is the direction Trump is headed?
Here is a recent New York Times major article titled: "How Trump’s ‘51st State’ Canada Talk Came to Be Seen as Deadly Serious"
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/03/07/world/canada/trump-trudea...
Here is NBC News headline:
"Trump's quest to conquer Canada is confusing everyone: President Donald Trump increasingly links a trade war to his push to annex America's northern neighbor."
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-quest-co...
The underlying issue is that it makes sense from a long-term economic standpoint if you ignore everything else. Canada has tons of resources and even more land which will get more valuable as the world warms. Argicultural regions may shift northward if there is significant warming and that could hurt the US and benefit Canada. So strategically there is logic.
The main complicating factor is that Trump can be quite erratic in his views, so it may just shift off of his plate and he focuses on something else if we are lucky.
RajT88
If they are doing this to non-citizens, it is a matter of time until they start doing it to citizens as well. Soon it will be stripping naturalized citizenship (which they have floated already). After that, they will just lock up native born citizens for frivolous reasons.
preommr
> which they have floated already
I would say it's well past 'floating'.
He's already signed the EO to end it, and now it's up to SCOTUS. This is like saying someone is floating the idea of getting a pizza, when they're in the store, pie in hand, waiting for the payment to clear.
matwood
Exactly. Once due process is removed from non-citizens, they can arrest whoever they want, claim they are non-citizens, then prevent them the due process to prove otherwise.
RajT88
Or really, there is very little difference between trampling the constitutional rights of naturalized citizens vs. natural born citizens.
If the judicial branch chooses not to check that power for partisan reasons, they will continue not to check that power as they exercise it more.
throw0101d
And if you're on a foreign student on visa, you better not write anything critical of federal policy, as otherwise you might be arrested on the street; surveillance video:
* https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/federal-immigration-aut...
gizmo
Meanwhile frauds like Trevor Milton get pardoned. Milton donated 1.5 million to the Trump campaign and his lawyer is the brother of the Attorney General, which I'm sure was not a coincidence. Milton was on Team Trump. I don't care that much about Milton -- he's just one of many fraudsters who got away with it -- but it's the contrast here that's so shocking: if you support Trump he will bail you out even if you're a criminal but if you're critical of Trump he will try to destroy you.
In earlier biographies Trump bragged about his vengeful nature. How he would gladly bear a grudge for a decade if that would allow him to finally get even. To Trump winning is justice. He fantasizes about destroying any FBI agent that had the audacity to investigate him. And any judge that found him guilty. Or any politician that voted for his impeachment. Canada and Europe have mocked Trump for decades, but who's laughing now?
Vengeance seem so old-fashioned. Most of us don't seek vengeance or bear grudges. But to Trump getting even -- winning -- is everything.
SideburnsOfDoom
> Even a 1% chance of being denied entry or shipped to a detention centre is too high.
Yes. As someone else remarked online, there is a world of difference between an effectively zero chance of this terrible outcome, and a non-zero chance.
It's a change in kind not in degree, and people will react to that.
JojoFatsani
The first amendment is worth fighting for.
brandensilva
The constitution is worth fighting for. All of it.
Protests need to be taking place. This isn't a bi partisan issue but a constitutional crisis that will destroy our country if we do not overturn these illegal EOs.
April 5th come support the national protest.
USA, the land of unlimited possibilities...of how to get detained without a process...for expressing opinions...by the government repating that we have finally free speach and the dark ages are gone...while revisiting history to avoid dangerous words such as a 'women'...
And I've thought our wana-be-authorian politicians are greates idiots of all, but there seems to be running some kind of global world competion to find them and let them ruin their countries.