Using Gorilla glass for home building
113 comments
·March 24, 2025notmyspacetom
There is a company called LuxWall that is producing vacuum insulated windows that act basically like a thermos. There is a tiny space between the two panes that is pulled down to a high vacuum that results in a window that only transfers heat via radiation. Conductive and convective heat transfer are essentially eliminated. This results in a window with a R value similar to a fully insulated wall. Because the full unit is so thin, they are able to replace single pane windows in old buildings and drastically cut buildings energy consumption.
xnx
Sounds cool, but also exceedingly difficult to maintain a [near] vacuum over the ~25 year life of a window.
notmyspacetom
They typically use a getter to maintain the vacuum over the lifetime of the window, similar to other sealed vacuum systems like CRT's or vacuum tubes.
dredmorbius
For those unfamiliar with getters:
jajko
One bigger hit and its gone and you will not even know it till it fogs. Even argon glass of same pressure as air can eventually leak out and be replaced by air, reducing its efficiency significantly.
grendelt
Are these big national-brand window companies that provide "lifetime warranty" just cashing in today and hoping for the best (bankruptcy) exit strategy later when all their installs from this generation fail in a couple decades?
Not installers, but companies like Pella, Window World, et al.
thrawa8387336
One time had a big pane hit by a golf ball. Just had the outer pane replaced at 10x cheaper.
chaz6
That sounds like double/triple glazing which is has been around for years in Europe. The most common type uses Argon as an insulator, but there are also vacuum versions.
danielbln
Huh, I thought that's a common thing, in Germany almost everyone has these windows.
greggsy
That’s neat but very difficult to maintain, let alone transport. Large panes will also bow under that kind of pressure.
DeRock
> Large panes will also bow under that kind of pressure.
They typically have support pillars arrayed throughout the panel to prevent any bowing or flexing.
null
eagerpace
It says “only 20% more than energy efficient windows” but those “energy efficient windows” are usually 50% more than the average quality window. Higher quality triple pane windows exist, and they are a luxury for most homeowners. It’s great technology, but relatively few people build or upgrade their house with the long term consequences in mind for these things. There’s a reason you get a positive ROI when you fix up a kitchen or bathroom versus replacing windows which is typically viewed as maintenance. There needs to be incentives for these upgrades to be adopted by home builders.
sccxy
Triple pane windows are not that kind of luxury.
I live in a poor Eastern European country and this is the standard for new buildings.
drjasonharrison
Ah, but in North America, only double-pane windows are required. Triple-pane windows are considered necessary for noise abatement but are prohibitively expensive. There are government rebates for upgrading older homes from single to double-pane windows, but no third-pane increase in the rebate.
freedomben
Yes, and to give an idea I replaced some windows in my house a couple years back. The double pane windows on the north side were about $100 to $150 per, while the triple pane windows on the south side were $900. The triple pane also had higher installation labor costs. It seemed ludicrous to me that it would be so much more expensive, but after calling around, that was very typical.
bgnn
I got extra thick glasses (12mm thick each instead of 6mm standard) for my argon filled double pane windows in the bedroom. The noise isolation is incredbly improved. It did cost only 15% more. This is Europe again.
ahofmann
Here in Germany triple pane windows are very much a luxury.
kleiba
Nonsense, they're pretty much standard for new buildings, too.
antisthenes
They are the standard, because historically Eastern European winters are several times harsher than anything in USA, with the exception of a few states bordering Canada.
So the ROI is way higher.
kleiba
They're standard because energy is more expensive in Europe than in the US.
shakna
About half of the buildings in Australia still use single-pane windows.
varelse
[dead]
kev009
I've met plenty of wealthy people that have the mindset "luxury = frivolous" -- while that may be true to some extent, for i.e. a brand name T-shirt very few people I meet regardless of income bracket understand much of anything about the built/manufactured world.
In most realms, thoughtfully paying more for something yields an economic win over the lifetime (i.e. in this case energy efficiency).
Also somewhat ironically most people (even frugal) have some intuitive appreciation of quality -- if you place fitting architectural windows and doors on a structure your guests will appreciate it at some level, even if they don't understand why -- but expending the mental effort to design in such things is beyond most people for whatever reason even if they can afford it.
Whether it translates into value capture depends on the demographic of buyer, there is a large uncanny valley of builders that will do the lipstick-on-a-pig thing for a flip or even highly priced spec homes but at some point architects prevail and the structure is well designed at the price point.
bobthepanda
Unfortunately, right now the market is so tight you could put slop out and it would sell like hotcakes.
greggsy
Many Australian jurisdictions require the energy efficiency rating to be included with the listing, which factors in things like double glazing.
Their value is absolutely recognised as something greater than maintenance in this market.
KerrAvon
Buyers absolutely care about energy efficiency and insulation from noise, and neither can be addressed fully without upgraded windows. It's one of the first things experienced homebuyers should look at -- if the windows are 1980's single pane, I'd expect to spend least $20k in window replacement parts + labor for a large house on top of the house price.
UltraSane
My brother bought a house that has triple pane windows and they are really nice. They block almost all sound and feel noticeably less cold in winter.
BobaFloutist
The thing is, is 20k really that significant when compared to the price of a large house?
stephencanon
20k here, 20k there, and pretty soon you’re talking about real money. You don’t save much money building a house by cheaping out on any one thing, but it adds up pretty fast.
That said, we have very nice triple-pane German windows in the house we’re currently building, and both the thermal performance and the finish quality are _wildly_ better than American window products. It’s just a whole different category of thing.
foldor
For many people yes, because that 20k isn't being added to the mortgage, so it isn't easily financed over a long period of time with low interest. These days, many people are stretched to meet the minimum down payment and won't have 20k extra to throw at a problem like this.
dimensional_dan
It is once you've maxed out what you can borrow and are now barely able to pay the mortgage and food.
grendelt
It's one of the first things buyers should look at. But they don't. They check out the kitchen cabinets, bathroom fixtures, and lovely floors and wall finishing.
forgetfreeman
How to ruin a real estate agent's day: arrive at your showing appointment wearing a tyvek bunny suit and headlamp and immediately demand access to the crawlspace.
drjasonharrison
School district.
stronglikedan
After over a decade in my home in a sunny area, I wish I would have replaced the windows with energy efficient ones when I first moved in. Just the savings on power over the past 10 years would have made them worth it. I'm pretty sure I'd have at least broken even by now.
All this to say, if I were building a new home, I would make it as energy efficient as possible as soon as possible. In my mind, it would be an investment, not maintenance.
m463
> when I first moved in
I think many people fall into this trap.
When you first move in, there is always too much going on. Buying/Selling, moving, getting accustomed to the house, area, etc.
But it is the perfect time to redo things in the empty, unused house.
Put in a new electric panel. Add ethernet, or outlets, or rewire all the rooms. redo the shower, kitchen, laundry, etc insulate the attic. Change out the garage door opener.
or redo the windows.
The minute you move in all of this becomes measurably harder.
jml7c5
This is a strange article. It portrays triple and quadruple pane windows as a new development, but they've been around for years.
As far as I can tell, the only development here is the use of ultra-thin glass in the interior layers. This reduces cost, size, and weight relative to normal triple/quadruple-glazed windows.
wussboy
My dad built a house in the late 80s with all triple-paned glass...although there were essentially three separate windows, packaged as one.
archi42
I feel like they're around for decades? Gorilla glass is absolutely no necessity to enable 3 or 4 panes. ChatGPT (sry, I'm becoming lazy) agrees that they're available since the 1980s. In the US adoption became more widespread in the 2000s. Here in Europe/Germany they became more popular in the 1990s already. This matches how I remember it.
When we replaced our 1980s double glazed windows with triple glazed a few years ago, I could have easily gotten four-pane insulated windows as well, except for the roof-installed windows. Drawbacks of multi-pane are the increased weight and them being more opaque.
(Yes, we also insulated the walls and can control humidity - just in case someone wants to point out that the window replacement alone can cause moisture/mold damage to our house :))
archi42
Just to clarify: The above text is manually written, I just used the mentioned tool to pull the numbers.
These match what I remember, so please correct me/the numbers instead of simply down voting because I mention the source ;-)
FuriouslyAdrift
The building I work in has "ballistic" glass in one area that is 6 inches thick (split into three 2" sections internally) and it is soooo quiet. I wish I could get those on my house for noise abatement.
nullc
> I wish I could get those on my house for noise abatement.
You can but your wall may not be thick enough.
FWIW, you can get insulated glass where the different panes are different dimensions, which alone drops noise transmission a few dB (per literature). And using thicker (but not so thick as 6 inches!) creates a lot of reduction.
I replaced the windows in my home office a few years ago and speced the outer as a laminate bandwidth with all three pieces different thicknesses (and not multiples of each other). It provided a considerable noise reduction though I can't attribute the amounts to the different composition vs thickness.
Finding a glass company that was willing to completely replace the frames vs wanting to just take the glass out and put a 'frame in a frame'-- bad for appearance, thermals, and acoustics-- was harder than getting the unusual setup. I totally failed to find anyone willing to backfill with SF6+Ar. :P
tristor
One of the biggest expenses I had for my previous home was replacing all the windows. It helped a lot, but unfortunately was $26k to have done properly (could have been done cheaper, but I went for the good stuff) and the net result was a $0 increase in potential sale price. When I sold the house, I only made money on the deal because of the market doubling in the time span I owned the property.
Now I'm looking to buy/build again, and I will still invest in good windows because it makes such a difference on a summer day and with noise, that quality of life difference matters to me, but it seems it doesn't matter to anyone else because it's not priced in and builders don't care. Even if I buy a brand new "energy efficient" track house, it'll have shit windows. Only by building a custom house and mandating these things can I have any hope of getting it if I don't want to dump another $20k-$30k into a house after I buy it.
kleiba
Interesting, when I lived in Europe, I observed that it was the other way around there: if your house only has double-pane windows from the 80s, that will definitely reduce your sales price quite a bit.
mock-possum
As a home owner - updating / improving my windows is a luxury I very much wish I could afford. It’s hard to imagine being able to mess with the windows unless it’s with a newly purchased empty property.
tastyfreeze
Replacing windows is actually one of the easier DIY home jobs you can do. Hell of a lot easier than building a deck that a lot of people do. They are installed after framing and meant to be removed if they break. Removing the trim inside and outside will give you access to the fasteners holding the frame in.
Usually, the hardest part is finding windows that fit and match your taste.
fellowniusmonk
Finding the right size windows without having to go custom has proven to be nearly impossible. It's not a hard project but unless you are fortunate with window dimensions it is far more expensive than building a deck.
Freak_NL
What's wrong with a custom size? I replaced two small windows with triple glass ones, and just ordered the right size online. I don't think it's even possible to buy windows in a standard size (whichever that may be) here in the Netherlands. A professional glazier would order the windows from the factory just as the shop with a fancy website with a configurator did for my order.
nemomarx
naive question- couldn't you resize the hole in the wall to use a larger window pane?
kirtakat
That's true for relatively new construction, but for instance, I have a 100 year old house with stucco. Replacing my windows is a nightmare job. Whereas my back deck was a far simpler project
bloomingeek
My home is 58 years old. last summer I had the original aluminum single-pane windows replaced with vinyl double-pane ones. I 'assisted' the installer and knew he would prob run into some settling of the window opening. I was right, there's no way I could done the replacements on my own, owing to proper tools alone.
My power company sent me an email the following December telling me my energy savings from the previous October, 2023 (that month only), for the same month in 2024, was 31%! When I called the installer and told him, he said a large part of that was prob from leakage around the old windows and the now double panes.
blodorn
100 year old windows were designed for easy maintenance and repair. Are the double hung windows? If they are, you can make sure to have storm windows on which effectively work as a double pane window. If this new glass were available, you could replace every pane in your window without removing a nail.
kylehotchkiss
I have a stucco home, I've been doing replacement windows (I like milgard) and my stucco hasn't been touched. I have other people install them though.
mrj
Yeah, for me my windows weren't standard sizes so had to be custom built, anyhow. At that point, you might as well get installation as well. Some stucco had to be chipped back to insert the new window but it's covered by the vinyl frame. Low-e windows are amazing though.
gazook89
Same here. We removed trim inside the house and it wasnt that bad, but I was just replacing the trim— not the windows. I could see that removing the windows would be a pain the ass very quickly. And it has already been done once.
KerrAvon
> Replacing windows is actually one of the easier DIY home jobs you can do
I think you're assuming a baseline level of competence that many don't have. I'm comfortable with electrical work and some plumbing but I wouldn't do my own window installation.
jbjbjbjb
Judging by home owners around me it looks to be quite a popular change. As far as I can tell they're pretty much changing like for like (upvc with double glazing) without the energy efficiency upgrade. Changing from white to black frames seems to be the driving factor.
morkalork
Living in a suburb built in the 60s and 70s the two things I see after every sale is new windows and doors, and digging up and replacing the French drain.
scarecrowbob
I've replaced windows before, and I'm handy but not a professional.
Depending on the construction it's not super hard to pull them out and put new ones in, it takes about 20-30 min per window.
more_corn
Depending on your heating and cooling bill it could be cost-effective. The new windows are so much more energy efficient that you start to payback the insulation costs pretty quick.
thathndude
Mine are due to be replaced, and I’ll definitely keep my eye on this. But, if that wasn’t the case, I wouldn’t be running to replace windows before end of life.
oblio
> As a home owner - updating / improving my windows is a luxury I very much wish I could afford.
What has gone wrong in super capitalistic America that much poorer Romanians, for example, can afford average quality double glazed and triple glazed windows and Americans can't?
onlypassingthru
Labor costs. Work in the trades can pay VERY well in the wealthier parts of the US. Plumbing, electrical, carpentry, tile journeyman can all make over six figures in the major metro areas.
jeppine
Would encourage anybody who has a historic home pre-1940s to keep their original windows and just restore them. Unless you get 4 and 6 pane windows, the energy savings are minimal.
Brent Hull is a good resource on historic windows and outlines the reasons to keep them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6mAmIrN5qY
Plus, the original windows look significantly better and will last longer.
blacksmith_tb
"[triple pane] windows saved an average of 12% on heating and 28% on cooling"[1]
That said, if you haven't insulated the walls and attic, windows alone won't do much.
1: https://www.pnnl.gov/news-media/how-triple-pane-windows-stop...
downrightmike
Pre 1940 homes were meant to breath. If they don't, they mold and rot
drewcoo
Please take Brent Hull with a grain o' salt if you own an old home. Anything pre-catalog is different and does not really fit a recipe. Brent is opinionated but doesn't often broadcast that he's expressing opinion instead of fact.
Love Brent, though! He has a vision of old houses and pushes it.
mrbigbob
There is an MIT spinoff company called Aeroshield that has created a very transparent version of aerogel to be used for very energy efficient windows. From the website they plan to have products for sale in 2026. It will probably be expensive but it is interesting. https://aeroshield.tech/
shdh
> this glass is so well insulated, it actually creates warmth in his living room: It admits the radiant heat of the low winter sun but prevents conductive heat loss through the window
joezydeco
You mean, like a greenhouse?
tonyarkles
We have an older mobile home on a rural lot in the middle of nowhere, and by far one of the best quality of life improvements we’ve made to it is awnings that were designed to let the sun in during the winter but not in the summer. In the winter we keep the furnace set at about 68F there during the day (65F at night) and on good sunny days it can be -20F outside and up to 73F or 74F in the living room!
In the summer without running the AC it would get up to 85-90F in there while only 70F outside… with the awnings we barely need the air conditioner most of the time. Still do on days when the outside air temperate is oppressive, but the place isn’t a greenhouse all summer!
jmward01
Not really on topic, sorry, but all I can think about when reading this article is the beginning of The Hudsucker Proxy.
https://archive.is/ysoFM