EU pushes ahead with Big Tech antitrust enforcement
82 comments
·March 21, 2025whazor
There are US companies benefiting of big tech antitrust enforcement. For example, Apple opening up their ecosystem could be good news for Garmin and Bose. Since there are more tech companies in US it means that fighting antitrust could still be a win for US.
NotPractical
Of note, so far, you can still take advantage of all the features that the EU has forced Apple to add, as a developer (though not as a user), even if your company is outside the EU. This could of course change in the future, but US companies (other than the largest in the entire world, such as Apple and Google) do very much stand to benefit from what the EU is doing.
giuliomagnifico
Archive link: https://archive.is/dpHIP
Braxton1980
This could lead to more actions by the Trump admin administration against European countries.
Not anti-trust but Cook called Trump to complain about the Irish tax outcome where Apple has to pay something like $14b
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj4d75zl212o
What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies.
This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans due to the finanical benefit while controlling the messaging on their platforms
For example "Instagram and Threads will start recommending political content to users in the US." After a few years of either limiting it or providing an option(? Unsure)
nonethewiser
> What happens if tech companies, long seemingly supporting Democrats are wooed by Trump with promises of bullying Europe with more tariffs to stop them from going after American companies.
This has already happened. There is just friction between executives and company culture.
Braxton1980
Have previous administrations been as aggressive against other countries due to their policies?
For example with South Africa
" “The United States won’t stand for it, we will act,” Trump added. “Also, I will be cutting off all future funding to South Africa until a full investigation of this situation has been completed!”
https://www.jurist.org/features/2025/02/11/explainer-underst...
Even if tech companies wanted this and previous admins tried diplomatic pressure or discussions I don't believe it was to the level that we are seeing now.
andsoitis
> Have previous administrations been as aggressive against other countries due to their policies? For example with South Africa
Yes! And in fact, funny your example is South Africa because in the past there was action against South Africa when it was run by the apartheid government! Including but not limited to Congress passing the Comprehensive Anti-Apartheid Act of 1986, which called for an end to apartheid and placed economic sanctions on South Africa. The bill prohibited the import of South African goods, the sale of arms and military equipment to the nation, and any new investment.
I believe Europe wasn’t as activist against the South African apartheid government.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-apartheid_movement_in_the...
jonathanlydall
Speaking as a South African, that article was very interesting and didn’t seem to misrepresent anything that I’m aware of, but I’m also not especially knowledgeable in these areas. I don’t support this law myself, but as mentioned by the article it’s not as bad as Trump makes out.
However, there is some context which I feel is missing from your post, in particular how it’s a bit strange that Trump even cared to politically attack South Africa.
We’re pretty small fry from an economic output point of view, not nothing, but a pretty small market which although it has great potential, has been somewhat stagnant largely due to incompetence and corruption by our government.
Something that would have however gotten notice in the US is that we formally filed a case in ICC against Israel for human rights violations (for the record, I would not personally speak in support of Israel or Palestine).
Something else that is also likely a factor (and is mentioned in the article) is that Musk was born here. Not mentioned in the article is that he has unequivocally stated he has no love for South Africa. If I recall correctly, his family left the country while he was still in school, where he was bullied.
It would be pretty natural that he has some emotional connection to here and would pay some attention to what’s happening, at the very least to things which would reinforce his existing world view on us.
Another interesting thing that happened in the last couple of years is that Starlink looked into operating here, but decided not to when the government said a precondition was that a significant percentage be black owned (in practice many companies who adhere to this essentially view it as a form of tax where they’re obligated to give a portion of their company away).
Our BBBEE laws which dictate that you can’t do business with the government unless your own company and all your suppliers (and their suppliers, ad infinitum) have enough black ownership is quite contentious (and a form racial of discrimination in my books) has resulted in many international investors simply walking away, Starlink amongst them, and I don’t blame them.
But It’s exactly the kind of thing Musk would no doubt have heard about with Starlink and if I were Musk it would have peeved me quite a bit, possibly enough to point us out to Trump who’s always looking for a punching bag to reinforce his existing world views on injustices.
nonethewiser
Im sorry, I dont understand your point. I'm talking about Zuckerberg, Bezos, Cook, etc. all appealing to Trump to fight back against EU regulation and continuing to advance their interests globally. They are all very much in favor of Trump's view of EU regulation on US tech companies.
jimnotgym
It doesn't work if Trump has already put tarrifs on the EU though. When you fire a gun, it ceases to be a deterrent.
dybber
They will only get a financial benefit if Trump is successful in convincing EU to change their policies, but I think it is pretty little chance of that happening.
EU policies will be decided by the europeans, and if the US tries to coerce EU e.g. with tariffs, EU will use it’s “economic bazooka” the Anti-Coercion Instrument which will target some of the same US tech companies.
https://www.ft.com/content/7303e57e-67ca-477a-8d00-8d5213f71...
bilbo0s
Yep.
In the US, we kind of worked ourselves into a box.
More hostile action from Trump will only deepen European resolve.
I don't understand what we were thinking? There's like 600 million people in Europe. All of whom were perfectly content to sleep in the then current global order.
Why take a stick and poke a sleeping lion like that? For the life of me I'll never figure that out?
graeme
This is one of the guiding documents of the current administration.
https://www.hudsonbaycapital.com/documents/FG/hudsonbay/rese...
bsaul
The only rational i've got to explain trump policy, is that he's been supported by non-western countries to destroy the western world one way or another.
There is unfortunately no other explanation i can think of at this point. Stupidity of this level isn't enough. You need a strong incentive to suicide us all ( because neither europe nor the US are going to win anything with this kind of war. Only our competitors will)
apwell23
"The original decision covered the period from 1991 to 2014. The European Commission is trying to retroactively change the rules and ignore that, as required by international tax law, our income was already subject to taxes in the US."
how is this not trade war by EU. They are making apple pay taxes from 3 decades ago?
potatototoo99
They broke the law, Apple and Ireland. Just because Ireland is a country it doesn't mean it can't be subject to laws.
> "Ireland granted Apple unlawful aid which Ireland is required to recover". The European Commission found that corporate tax rates as low as 0.005% paid by the tech giant represented an unlawful subsidy. Specifically because other companies were not permitted to obtain the same tax arrangements. As a consequence Apple must pay €13 billion, excluding interest, to the Irish Treasury.
blackeyeblitzar
Did they really break the law? I’m not a fan of Apple and their aggressive walled gardens and general hostility. But I feel like the tax optimization with Ireland is well known to everyone and wasn’t an issue until now. It seems dishonest to go back and demand retroactive taxes afterwards. And I bet they aren’t the only company in this situation so are they being singled out unfairly?
vkou
Since ~January of this year, international law doesn't mean anything anymore.
But if you think it's still relevant, tariffs against Canada violate international law, perhaps you should get in touch with the US government to have them lifted. Lead by example, and all that.
apwell23
> perhaps you should get in touch with your government to have them lifted. Lead by example, and all that.
ok i will reach out to Indian govt about usa's canada tariffs
bigyabai
Apple sold devices in the EU without paying the requisite local taxes by misrepresenting sales figures and lobbying for exemption through Irish law. They knew that their accounting was dishonest and continued with it anyways. Simply having to pay the taxes you owe isn't a trade war.
The FT article is much more clear about why exactly it is harmful:
Braxton1980
1. Which international tax law?
2. It's not a new tax that was applied retroactively it was an EC ruling about how Apple took advantage of the situation. Which was later affirmed by the highest EU court.
NotPractical
> This would result in tech companies supporting Republicans
People often forget that these companies care about nothing but money. This isn't an anti-capitalist rant or anything; that's just how the world works. As publicly traded corporations, they are obligated to their shareholders to always make decisions that are best for the company, no matter what. That would include supporting Republicans, if necessary.
It doesn't matter how many angry engineers vent on Twitter about how their favorite megacorps are now Trump supporters. These decisions come from the very top.
bilbo0s
At this point, weakening any American tech company really is a matter of data sovereignty for Europe. That may not be the main reason all this started, but I think recent months have underscored Europe's need, and supercharged Europe's determination in this regard. I'd expect significant changes in EU policies regarding tech companies going forward. Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.
nico42
It's also a response to the failure of the US to regulate their own companies and apply their own antitrust laws.
blibble
personally, I think the way to deal with this is the way the Chinese have done it (very successfully)
if US "gatekeepers" wish to operate in the European market, it will be under license, with a joint venture that is majority controlled by European shareholders, with technology transfer agreements
essentially: using their own greed against them
and if they don't like it, they can operate somewhere else
dmix
The only countries that do this in the world are China and Iran. Russia and India do it partially, such as rules for storing data domestically so they can snoop on it.
Apple has a company called GCBD running their iCloud so the Chinese gov can access it https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/17/technology/apple-china-ce...
Google, LinkedIn, Uber, etc left China. Meta refused to do a joint venture so never entered the market. The only big American names who did a joint venture were Apple and Tesl
ashoeafoot
TikTok?
nonethewiser
You cant have this without a great firewall.
fpoling
US surely can remove TikTok from the mobile stores and can even force Apple/Google to release an OS update disabling TikTok. That will be sufficient.
slt2021
firewall not needed, just need to remove the way for US companies to make money from advertising in Europe.
as long as ads money gravy train to USA is stopped, USA companies will leave themselves / or comply
jimnotgym
How was the US planning to ban Tiktok without a great firewall? I presume they would demand that internet companies don't route their traffic. Stop them locally caching data etc.
maciejw
Maybe something as simple as turnover tax would work
vkou
You absolutely can, because the companies providing tech services need to get paid, either from local companies buying ad space, or directly from their users, and you can just block payment to non-compliant firms.
Given America's hostile stance to its former allies, joint ownership and technology transfer agreements as a condition for its firms operating in the EU market sounds more than reasonable. If US firms aren't happy with this, they can always lobby to impose similar restrictions on foreign big tech firms operating in the US...
If there were any.
The problem with flipping the table and starting a trade war is everyone loses... And the correct response to someone starting lose-lose games is tit-for-tat. Maybe big tech firms will think twice before throwing their support for an anti-trade candidate. (They absolutely could have used their position in media to stop this insanity, if they wanted to, but now we all have to lie in the bed they've made.)
throw_a_grenade
The first sector this happens is defence industry, one of the US of A's biggest exports. EU already decided that weapons will need to be at least 65% manufactured in Europe: https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-freeze-us-multi-billion-d...
jimnotgym
That's what happens when the USA won't let European countries buy the weapons they want
apwell23
Chinese do it to steal IP from their joint venture
blibble
I would relish the irony of having Google, Microsoft and Facebook complain about IP theft
whilst their AI crawlers plunder any and all copyrighted material ever placed on the internet
bilbo0s
Yeah. I think regulations of that nature may be coming.
I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that.
Also, I know that no one will want to hear this on HN, but workers at American companies have also not made us any friends in Europe. There is a strong undercurrent of resentment due to some American workers not having the ability to maintain a humble and collaborative demeanor online or IRL.
blibble
> I think in the US, we've put ourselves in a really bad spot. Most will likely blame Trump/Vance, and they definitely deserve their share. But the American tech industry has been contributing its quota towards this break for a long time as well. And we should be honest about that.
I think that televised meeting with Zelensky was a wake-up call to many people, including myself
we can't allow ourselves to become any more dependent on the country that elected this regime, and not once (because a mistake can be forgiven), but twice
the current dependency also needs to be reduced to ensure the long survival of our societies and way of life
eikenberry
Maybe this will finally see European software engineers getting better compensation. The companies might avoid it if they move quickly as the US tech industry is a garbage fire at the moment (from an employee perspective) but that will eventually subside and they'll be competing against US companies again for top talent.
arrosenberg
Really, it's a matter of overall sovereignty, given where the chips have fallen in the US.
MPSFounder
In any other setting, I would agree. However, most of us here in the US are very unhappy with big tech. The lack of regulation is harming me as a consumer, but as a lobbying-based economy, America affords consumers little to no power. The EU might clearly favor their industries, and be overly aggressive in tech where they lack the momentum America has. The lack of any consumer-oriented support in the US makes me root for the other guy. Sometimes, E2E or USBC for the iphone is something I would argue most Americans are in favor for, but big tech refuses to implement to milk the sheep. Famously, lightning was only kept by Apple for so long because of the revenue it generates as a proprietary cable, despite the abundance of usbc cables. That type of monopolistic practices should be shamed, but we need the EU given America refuses to regulate big Tech.
bhelkey
> Mostly calibrated to decrease American dominance in the sector.
If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind? This is ironically similar to Trump imposing tariffs on Canada and acting surprised when they imposed tariffs in response.
The relatively free trade between the US and the EU has been mutually beneficial. The number #1 selling car in the EU is made by an American company [1]. And the US is a huge market for luxury European cars [2].
Everyone is better off by being able to choose between a European or an American car rather than being forced to buy domestic.
[1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/europe/2023-full-year-euro...
[2] https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/usa/article/detail/T0438942EN...
surgical_fire
> If the EU takes actions specifically designed to hurt the US, do you think the US wouldn't respond in kind?
The US has started the trade war against EU already, with tariffs on steeel/aluminum - assuming they are still active, Trump seemingly lacks cojones to keep tariffs up once others retaliate.
Not to say the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland (which is currently a Danish territory), open support for Putin in his aggression against Ukraine (which threatens Europe) and so on.
At this point the US should be seen as a hostile foreign nation by EU. EU is doing well by tightening the screws against US tech giants. Those companies are possibly a threat to essential infrastructure, and should be treated as such too.
bhelkey
> The US has started the trade war against EU already
On March 12th the US imposed a tariff on steel/aluminum, the EU responded with an tariff of total equivalent value on US steel/aluminum/agricultural products [1].
This is the core of my point, the US created a tariff against the EU, the EU responded in kind.
> the active hostility against EU, by threatening to annex Greenland...[Trump's] aggression against Ukraine
Trump has said concerning things about both Ukraine and Greenland and I don't want to downplay that. That being said, the US is currently sending both weapons and intelligence to Ukraine [2].
In fact, he US has given Ukraine more aid than the EU and all of its member states combined (though less than all of Europe combined) [3].
Being the largest supplier of aid, sending weapons and sharing intelligence with Ukraine is clearly not siding with Russia.
[1] https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_...
[2] https://www.npr.org/2025/03/12/nx-s1-5324926/u-s-resumes-ukr...
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blackeyeblitzar
I think big tech deserves anti trust regulation and action because it is good for a competitive market that actually puts customers first. They’re too big and powerful and abuse their power to hurt fair competition. But I think the type of aggressive action you’re talking about - and the motivation to do it solely to weaken America - will open up a lot of destructive actions back and forth.
America choosing to spend less money on Ukraine, pushing for resolution to a conflict that has resulted in mass deaths for Ukrainian males, and renegotiating tariffs doesn’t deserve the kind of hysterical overreaction I’m seeing from Europeans. In the end, if it escalates to open warfare on each other’s economies rather than a reset of trade agreements, it’ll damage both the EU and US to China’s benefit.
surgical_fire
I think EU will be fine. There are plenty other countries to trade with, including China.
China is actually less hostile to EU than US at this point.
hello_computer
Yes!
decremental
[dead]
It is fascinating how sentiment on here has changed in the last few months. If you look back on any of the many threads on this in the last year you see a much more staunch defence of the tech companies. The world sure has changed