Tourist in US chained 'like Hannibal Lecter'
162 comments
·March 20, 2025wuschel
@dang - why is this flagged?
There is a considerable group of users outside of the U.S.A. that is very interested in learning and discussing about the current developments when it comes to this kind of treatment of foreigners in the U.S.A.
These kind of threads can be very problematic to moderate and require attention in regard the nature of the discussion. However, whether backpacker or high potential talent, this kind of information is very relevant, and I think it is imperative to bring this to public attention.
It has also come to my attention that these kind of threads get flagged very often on HN. Are you analysing/monitoring the groups of peope that are flagging these threads or whether the conditions for flagging are set to the right treshhold?
Thanks!
dang
There have been a lot of these threads. Usually the bulk of the flags (as far I've seen from checking this) come from users who are tired of the repetition and don't feel like the stories are on topic for HN. With high-indignation, high-intensity hot topics, commenters mostly repeat their intensely held, pre-existing positions. That is already not the curious conversation this place is supposed to be for, and it has a large chance of degenerating into outright flamewar, which is against the site guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html).
We sometimes turn off flags on these stories - you can find previous explanations about that at these links:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43212835 (Feb 2025)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42978389 (Feb 2025)
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42911011 (Feb 2025)
https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so...
We turned off the flags on a couple major threads about this general topic over the last few days. At some point there has to be a limit, because otherwise the front page would consist of nothing but this, and similar, topics. That would turn HN into a current affairs site, which is not the mandate of this place.
If you (or anyone) will a look at the above links and take in the basic explanations, I'd be happy to answer any question that hasn't already been answered there.
Teever
If avoiding repetition is the goal are we going to see some proactive moderation on the banal posts about LLMs[0]?
I would love to see more stimulating conversation about a variety of topics here[1] but these things don't seem to gain traction. Why is that?
dang
There's a huge amount of moderation going on about repetitive LLM submissions. The fact that you're not seeing it is a separate issue.
HN's frontpage is a composite of the preferences of thousands (if not millions) of people. One consequence is that it doesn't match anyone's preferences precisely (including mine). No one ever feels like their favorite topics are sufficiently represented, and everyone always feels like their less-favorite topics are overrepresented.
sadeshmukh
dang only unflags posts - you should flag if you feel they're repetitive, or use the second chance pool for better submissions
steveBK123
Yes please
computerthings
[dead]
navane
Instead of the homepage, I now just browse lists > active and "flagged" now means "interesting for you!"
Aldipower
Thanks. Great hint!
ndsipa_pomu
Ditto
mostlysimilar
This is how I use HN now. I don't bother with the censored front page anymore.
Reubachi
This exact topic and topics like it will fill the front page and (at therisk of going against posting rules) will devolve into a more...standard/popular online forum.
There have been many posts on this exact topic, not flagged, which you could have found using the search function.
Dang cannot control who prompts a flag or not.
ANd lastly, c'mon. If you've been here for any length of time, this is exactly the last place this discussion should be happening., because we are all intelligent enough to know that this conversation is heaviliy biased from all sides. Look at the title. @dang, thank you for not just preventng an ancho chamber of a certain ideal, but from preventing ALL echo chambers.
aceazzameen
Anything perceived as negative towards the current US administration has been getting flagged on HN recently. Maybe bots? It's some kind of obvious campaign.
huijzer
Yes it's indeed an obvious campaign. Against politics in general. From the guidelines:
> Off-Topic: Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, or celebrities, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon.
freehorse
I would claim that these articles describe "some interesting new phenomenon" that is very relevant to a lot of us. I have colleagues right now cancelling their conference trips to the US either because under new rules they most probably cannot get a visa, or because they do not think it is worth the risk. I am pretty sure they are not the only ones in this kind of situation, and I am pretty sure that this kind of situation is quite relevant to the international audience of HN.
Teever
If politics is off-top why are some of the most popular and frequent topics things like: The CHIPS and Science Act, The SLS rocket, California Zoning Laws, Drug policy in the bay area, The Digital Markets Act in the EU?
It seems to me that 'politics' is just used as a euphemism for 'taboo' and there are many unspoken taboos about what is talked and not talked about here.
Reubachi
YEs, as another commenter pointed out. It IS a targetted campaign.....directly in line with the posted site rules.
Political posts which devolve into flame wars are not welcome here. Wether or not it will devolve into a flame war is not even a question.
Dang has avery difficult job, let's use our brains before accusing him of...following the clearly stated rules.
consteval
While it's true that these posts are political, our political climate is in a unique situation. You can no longer avoid politics, regardless of how much you hide. Even we, who are fairly wealthy techies, can no longer turn a blind eye.
Yes, it sucks that even the most mundane aspects of our lives are being fraught with political warfare. The current administration appears to have a desire to burn the world down.
I mean, look around you. Can we talk about EVs without being political? What about LLMs? What about the American tech industry? We used to be able to. It's no longer possible.
somenameforme
I enjoy discussing/debating politics, but tend to flag things that are framed in a fashion designed to elicit rage-bait rather than discussion, which very much includes this story. In particular I think the immigration question is really quite interesting to debate and discuss (from both sides even!), but this article and consequently this thread is predictably just people kind of spaz raging with minimal concern for facts, data, or broader questions. Low quality topics invariably turn stuff into /r/politics where hyperbole, emotionalism, and broad level misinformation replace any sort of meaningful discourse.
Like if you think about this issue for a minute, what exactly is it that you think should be done differently? People being detained and deporting for violating their visa is not new, but it's typically not covered in the media - it happens thousands times a day around the world everywhere. In fact this issue all started when Canada refused to allow entry to her because they suspected she wanted to illegally work, which led to her detainment and investigation in the US once Canada refused to accept her!
And if one is upset about the fact that she was cuffed then you're implicitly claiming officers should be able to treat people differently based upon their appearance or sex - oh boy the sexism/racism ragebait would be incoming in a heartbeat. So what is the issue that's even to be discussed?
Aldipower
Almost identical news today with a German 25 yo guy. He came back from a side-trip to Mexico and was cuffed at the border from Mexico to US.
"The German government has responded with a warning to travelers to the USA in response to several Germans being placed in detention pending immigration upon entry in recent weeks."
https://www-welt-de.translate.goog/politik/ausland/article25...
mystraline
Yep, the feds will interpret ANY sort of money, goods, services, or other as a form of compensation.
Same way amateur radio people can't take anything, even a can of soda, for radio operations. Or how private pilots can't get paid to take someone from 1 airport to the next. Or more recently, doing drone photography and selling said pictures.
Does it happen? Sure. But I've seen the feds come down hard on people, including citizens, for even a whiff of 'commercial' anything.
And well, I can't recommend anybody coming into the US, especially a non-native citizen. I wouldn't stay, but I don't have that latitude to move countries.
ck2
The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear.
So the question is when will the US be sanctioned for this behavior?
If cannot happen legally then financially?
Are tourists really going to risk coming here because this is not the first story and it is only going to get worse.
Imagine by the Olympics in 2028 - are people REALLY willing to visit here and being subjected to this incredible risk?
Can't say "you'll be fine" because just any one encouter with law enforcement on a power-trip and you'll have no rights to how you are treated and how long you are disappeared.
They are building holding facilities at military bases all over the country and there will be motivation to fill them up.
There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access.
You'll just disappear until they decide what to do with you.
ttyprintk
I predict strong Federal resistance to the Los Angeles Olympics taking place without individual incentives. The President making surprise appearances in dressing rooms for gender inspection, etc. Likewise, if the 2028 election is cancelled, I expect the only nations participating will be Russia and a newly-minted Gazan resort team.
SideburnsOfDoom
> if the 2028 election is cancelled
Highly unlikely. For the simple reason that countries such as Russia and Türkiye still have elections.
Not that USA elections have ever been perfectly representative. But expect them to be less so.
And, it might go like this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5yren8mxp8o
ck2
He owns a massive resort/hotel near the Olympics and will want to fill that up and then bring himself to bill taxpayers millions for secret service, etc.
So the event will happen but I simply cannot believe I find myself hoping for a worldwide boycott, it's insanity.
But why would they cancel the election if they "know those vote counting computers" and no-one is going to stop them from putting on a pretend election like Russia does?
People can protest all they want, once they run out of migrants to fill the detention centers they will just move onto protesters since no-one could stop them the first time around.
dathinab
> run out of migrants
they won't run out for a while. Not only are there a lot of immigrants in the US which they can arbitrary Label as illegal even if not, they are also already are trying to
- undo citizenship granted in the past, starting with people not born in the US, but there is clear intend to go further then that.
- classify native Americans as not US citizens
dathinab
realistically speaking Hitler Germany had an Olympic after they discriminated against yew but before it genocide was publically known and a lot of countries still took part in it
it ended up being grate propaganda for Hitler Germany with a lot of drugged German athletes winning prices, and a lot of make pretend that things aren't as bad as they are
I can't say in which state the US will be by 2028, but if not too dissimilar from today I wouldn't expect things to end up very different.
Through in the current state dragging out until 2028 is ... not very likely. So we will see.
ChoGGi
ICE detainees are big business, at least for the private companies paid to keep them locked up.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...
nashashmi
The checks and balance system has been compromised a little bit. Hope has dropped on congress to check the executive. SCOTUS should be checking next, but people believe they cannot be relied on because they are too conservative. Except CJ Roberts is now concerned about the executive branch assault on justice side. His stance is changing due to the need for C&B.
mschuster91
> There will be no lawyer access, no reporter access.
At least foreigners have their consulates/embassies and it's wise for every foreigner being in the US to have a daily check-in with someone who can contact the country of origin to raise alarm.
adolph
> The point is obviously to terrorize people and create fear.
This is a perfectly ambiguous point. On the one hand is the practice, which may or may not be novel. On the other is the story, which may or may not be clickbait intended as outrage-engagement.
ck2
Yes your kind of hand waiving is EXACTLY what went down in the 1930s in Germany, everyone was "don't get carried away, this is fine/exaggerated".
Now it's just with smartphones.
Realize this is not only not the first story but there's another one pending on the front pages of many news sites.
It has Stephen Miller written all over it, it's EXACTLY how he works.
Stop giving them a pass on this, it's only going to get worse and worse.
adolph
You seem certain about this but I don’t know how you came at such certainty.
hobs
On the other hand there's the president, whose said he's going to go on a mass deportation spree and treating anyone he doesn't like as illegal, but yeah who knows if this is just business as usual!?
croes
Tourism will decline.
Will be interesting to see how Trump blames that on Biden or left wingers.
kzz102
I use to read about the power border agents have over foreigners and was amazed at how easily they can destroy me. The only reason this hasn't happened seems to be that they're mostly decent, professional people. And now that's gone.
peppers-ghost
It's luck of the draw with those guys. The job attracts people with nationalistic/fascist mindsets and if you look a certain way you can expect to be treated worse than others.
anthony_d
I wouldn’t describe them as nationalistic or fascist. There’s no need to bring in any sort of political view… the problem is when little people get a little power. It can get ugly.
peppers-ghost
Have you talked with many of them? I've met some that want laws changed so they can shoot migrants on sight.
anthony_d
It’s the same people. There’s always been an element of luck.
I travel a lot and I’ve interacted with a lot of border agents. I’d say luck is important for a lot of countries. I’ve had great experiences flying in US, Egypt, UK and Turkey I’ve also had terrible experiences with US, and Iceland. Most other places have been somewhere in between.
neom
I know a Canadian who was deported 3 weeks ago, got caught flying back and forth between SF and Vancouver. Same process, put in a holding cell, 17 hours later shackled and escorted to a air canada flight, DHS person waited at the front of the plane till the door was closed.
Not sure the Americans can be much more explicit these days, they want their processes followed and they're not tolerating skirting them, Canadian, British or anyone.
koolba
So the Canadien was deported for illegally being in the USA, got caught and deported, and then got caught again for illegally entering the USA again?
Why would you not expect to be detained? The slap on the wrist was the first deportation.
neom
She flew into the states (I'm not sure what city she originated from), got taken into inspection, they pulled up her in and out records and asked why she had been going in and out once a month, who she was visiting, who her fiends are etc, and then presented her with her linkedin profile, said she is going down to the American company to work, and then deported her, she was given zero opportunity to provide explanation etc.
sevenf0ur
I'd expect the same treatment in any other country. If you break the law and get deported, they are not going to let you walk around freely anymore. Maybe she expected special treatment?
nervousvarun
It's an obvious and egregious overreaction to the lack of enforcement we've seen here for decades now. The pendulum has certainly swung. Ostensibly too far. Not sure why it all has to be so dramatic.
Would imagine most sensible people support enforcing immigration policy and would agree that this hasn't been done for a long time now but obviously "shackles" is ridiculous.
dfxm12
The status quo (including lack of enforcement) was good for the country for decades. We look the other way a little to get cheap or highly skilled labor, we get to maintain some soft power as the "land of opportunity", we collect a ton of tax money from people who won't won't nearly take out as much and we get a population who, on the whole, commits less crime than the average American.
Additionally, politicians get to draw some line in the sand to fight over, but do little about.
It has to be dramatic so the administration can scare people into submission and test the waters to see what they can get away. We are failing this test.
byroot
Less extreme, but similar, a French researcher on his way to a conference was denied entry and his laptop and phone were searched and confiscated:
> The source said the scientist in the space sector underwent a random check on
> arrival, during which his work computer and personal phone were searched, and
> messages referring to Donald Trump's administration's treatment of scientists
> were found. Authorities told him they had found messages "that express hatred
> towards Trump and can be qualified as terrorism," the source said.
> His professional and personal equipment was confiscated and he was sent back
> to Europe the following day.
[0] https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2025/03/20/f...
veidr
Although less egregious at a glance, as a US citizen, I think that is pretty extreme and unprecedented in my lifetime (I'm 50) :-|
Sharlin
Similar things did happen after 9/11.
veidr
I take your point, because violations of the law and constitutional rights did happen then, too.
But I don't think the magnitude or key charactersistics are quite the same. Post-9/11, I mean you had to expect a freak-out. Marginal victory in a peaceful election... there's no external threat here that makes it make sense beyond "democratic country regresses toward fascism".
ty6853
And people were outraged, then it became status quo. Now getting fondled by the TSA is passively accepted and hardly anyone writes about it anymore.
dathinab
and never stopped happening if you only look at the outlines
but the scale at which it happens, the wide use of dehumanizing language (e.g. calling foreigners "aliens") and the violence applied are novel for recent history (not new if you go back far enough in history, I mean the US has a lot of dark spots in history they mostly pretend never happened)
vuggamie
These threads sure drop off the front page fast. It's almost like someone doesn't want to talk about authoritarianism.
BonoboIO
I only see them via 24h top via Algolia
peppers-ghost
I can't imagine why anyone would read this and think it's a good idea to come to the US for any reason in this current climate. There's nothing here worth seeing if it means you're going to be tortured for the opportunity.
762236
This is how American immigration has always worked. I know others that experienced it under prior administrations. You have to ask why does the press only care about it now?
philistine
The change is that the detention is now privately run and its incentives are to keep you detained for as long as possible. If you go to the US, it's not just the tourist traps trying to make a buck off you. It's also the border protection.
> The reality became clear: Ice detention isn’t just a bureaucratic nightmare. It’s a business. These facilities are privately owned and run for profit.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/19/canadian-det...
diggan
> You have to ask why does the press only care about it now?
Does it matter? As someone who at points wanted to visit the US for various reasons, I've been watching the results with horror for decades at this point, how people are treated, so obviously it's a no-go country right now for large parts of the world population, even for tourism.
As you say, it's nothing new, and regardless of motives for publishing articles like this, I'm glad more people are finally realizing what could happen if your dumb enough to go there.
jredwards
Because the scale, aggression, and flagrant violations of due process have all skyrocketed?
peppers-ghost
I think the press cares about it because each aspect of it is getting worse. People coming into the country no longer have due process and can't see lawyers now.
762236
This changed?
dfxm12
You have to ask why does the press only care about it now?
First, why does the press coverage matter this much? If the press covered the stories of the people you know, would that make the heinous treatment they endured OK? Is detaining people for so long OK if each person affected gets a BBC article? Is leaving their family to guess why OK if the NYT publishes their photo? The current admin will do what they are doing regardless of the press coverage.
Additionally, why do you think the press only cares about it now? The press talked about the Biden era "kids in cages". The press talked about the Trump era family separation policy. The press called Obama "deporter in chief".
If you were honestly concerned about this, you wouldn't be going on about press coverage.
abirch
It’s even citizens leaving and returning internationally (though technically it can be domestically.) Most don’t understand that the 5th amendment doesn’t apply to the customs and border patrol; they can go through your phone and computer.
jredwards
4th amendment? And why would it not apply if you're in the US?
Volundr
It should, but it's badly weakend
ty6853
4th amendment ascribes that right to 'the people.'
Non immigrant aliens are not considered people as evidence by their lack of right to bear arms, the other right ascribed to 'the people.'. Courts have held for decades now that they are aliens not people, just not the ones in flying saucers.
somenameforme
Immigration enforcement isn't pretty anywhere, but also happens everywhere. For instance literally every single story of somebody being detained/deported from anywhere for working without a work permit is going to be a sad story because it's obviously somebody just trying to live a decent productive life, but ending up in jail and then deported (perhaps losing their belongings/pets/etc in the process) because they were born in a different country.
Trying to frame this as 'America only' is extremely disingenuous by the media. There will be numerically significantly more events in America because America is a relatively large country and previous lapses in immigration enforcement have created dumb situations like having some 435,000 illegal aliens with criminal records! [1] But there's nothing particularly exceptional. Rather it's just the media fishing for the worst of the worst, and trying to frame it as representative, like usual.
Dog bites man isn't news, man bites dog is.
[1] - https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/trump-dep...
orwin
I've been detained in Morocco (while they had issues in the territory they consider "their" south), they've been nothing but polite. I had to wait a night in a cell, but i wasn't chained, i was fed surprisingly good food and they did send me back as soon as possible (my insurance paid for it i think).
The fact that tourists with Visa issues (mine was because of geopolitics and my father's place of birth rather than a bad visa) can and do stay more than a day in cells, with chains? I would expect that in Salvador or some SEA countries, not the US.
somenameforme
Absolutely and that's probably the average case. Now take the hundreds of thousands of other people that have run into issues, and take the 0.1% most extreme cases. This makes up essentially 100% of what you read in the media.
For instance this case actually started when Canada refused entry to her for fear she was attempting to work illegally. [1] The led to a suspension of her "visa waiver" (I assume a visa on arrival scheme) and a subsequent detainment/investigation on the US side which also determined she was working illegally and thus subject to detention and deportation. To say it's an unusual case is an understatement, but all you will read about in the media is unusual cases.
peppers-ghost
Which other country is deporting people to concentration camps controlled by the military on foreign land?
somenameforme
You mean those few hundred gang bangers that were brutal enough that even their home countries wouldn't accept them back?
It's a common issue in South America where criminal thugs from one country will cross into another, and then their host country will not take them back. I can't find reliable outcomes of what happens to these people in the media for some reason...
Sharlin
According to a new advisory our Foreign Ministry just published, ESTA and visa rules have been changed to mandate that the gender you enter be your assigned-at-birth one. If your current travel documents do not match that, well, tough luck, it's going to be a crapshoot whether you'll be let in.
ParetoOptimal
The price of having good border security is the odd legal greencard holder is detained for weeks and...
Oh wait I'm an actual human.
This is disgraceful. The fear and punishment is the point though, I guess to prevent all but certain people from even visiting the US temporarily.
https://archive.md/VOwDb