Apple ordered by EU antitrust regulators to open up to rivals
159 comments
·March 19, 2025bri3d
bri3d
On first read, this seems ridiculously onerous to me. They're trying to compel Apple to deliver interoperability for basically every unique Apple feature:
* AirPlay
* AirDrop
* Notifications + Smartwatch integration
* Headphone smart handoff (I don't even think this is possible with any standard technology, so I'm not sure what they're looking for here compliance wise)
* Proximity pairing (I also don't know that this is possible with any standard technology...)
* NFC Emulation
* Background Execution
Also,
* API documentation for all private symbols (?!)
I get the push for openness in devices but I'd never want to sell hardware in Europe, honestly. If you get big enough, they swoop in and make you turn everything you've invented into an open standard? Anyone who's maintained a private vs. a public API knows that one is orders of magnitude more expensive than the other.
enragedcacti
> Headphone smart handoff (I don't even think this is possible with any standard technology, so I'm not sure what they're looking for here compliance wise)
Multipoint is part of the bluetooth standard already, Apple just has to provide a means for the headphones to determine which stream to play.
> Proximity pairing (I also don't know that this is possible with any standard technology...)
Fast Pair exists for Android and allows third parties to implement it. It's not a standard but it doesn't have to be, Apple just has to make the proprietary capability available for mfgs to implement if they want. The fact that Google+random OEMs can do it on android using off-the-shelf BT chips should show that its feasible for Apple as well.
quitit
The unintended consequence of this is that it effectively elevates Apple's protocols and methods to standards, without any kind of industry consultation.
The reason that's a bad thing is because the standards are filled with nuance to suit a range of scenarios that extend well beyond the custom methods that Apple have built to match the limits they chose for their particular accessories.
Due to Apple's size, this removes power from the decision making bodies and hands it over to Apple's entirely private process. It also hamstrings development for standards that would have emulated certain Apple features, since the "why bother" factor comes into play.
Meanwhile I don't actually hold much hope out for these changes to "increase competition". To use AirPods as an example. The only difference between setting up and using the AirPods versus a set of standard bluetooth earphones is the flashy set up process. Yes the Apple process is faster, but the normal process is not at all inconvenient, and Apple did not make any changes to add friction to that process. In every other way the devices will function identically. The popularity of the AirPods instead comes from the decent sound, range, battery life and stable connection - these aren't things Apple can fix for junky competitors.
The EU seems unable to discern the difference between success from merit versus success from lack of competition, their clumsy and ineffectual attempts to change the market for their advantage demonstrate that, meanwhile everyone has to deal with the unintended consequences.
do_not_redeem
> Anyone who's maintained a private vs. a public API knows that one is orders of magnitude more expensive than the other.
Maybe this will finally give Apple something to do with their $100 billion cash on hand.
averageRoyalty
[flagged]
shuckles
I’d rather Apple continue returning excess cash flow to investors than to waste it on boondoggle regulatory requirements cooked up by people without a clue (Seriously? AirDrop alternatives? Who is asking for this?) which also have unintended consequences for other product development priorities.
mystified5016
> If you get big enough, they swoop in and make you turn everything you've invented into an open standard?
Consider 20th century AT&T. They were the phone company in America, owning approximately all telecommunications hardware, including the physical handsets in consumer's homes (they were rented).
Competition with AT&T was in no uncertain terms entirely impossible. The cost to lay down even a fraction of the cables that AT&T owned was so astronomical that only government entities like cities could afford it. The main problem being that most of the cables are on other people's property and negotiating easments is incredibly expensive and unbelievably slow.
How could any competition be possible? AT&T owns the wires to 98% of all telco customers, and running new wires is all but impossible.
The US government forced AT&T to allow other telecom companies to use their wires. The Bell subsidiaries had to physically built out their COs to accommodate new equipment owned by other companies. This prompted hundreds or thousands of new companies to pop up and started market competition overnight.
AT&T got slapped down hard, but the net result for consumers was more choice, better prices, new and better services. The only reason consumers got DSL was as a scheme to sidestep the charge for handling a "call" over the shared wires. If the wires weren't shared and exploited, Bell would have kept everyone on dialup much longer.
So yeah, I think if you get big enough, your services become so vital that they become a public good. The telephone system went from a private monopoly to a public utility and the benefits to consumers and society is incalculable.
bri3d
The AT+T analogy is so different that there is a clear term for it in economics: "natural monopoly." It is quite obvious to me that natural monopolies require strict regulation.
I do not believe that smartphone handsets are a natural monopoly (besides carrier locking, which is orthogonal to this conversation). If a customer believes that the more "open" hardware+software ecosystem is superior, they can buy that ecosystem (as most Europeans do; I don't think Apple even have close to majority market share in Europe!)
kmeisthax
> The only reason consumers got DSL was as a scheme to sidestep the charge for handling a "call" over the shared wires. If the wires weren't shared and exploited, Bell would have kept everyone on dialup much longer.
Even worse, Ma Bell probably would have forbade home modem use if they had the choice. There were significant downsides to funneling packet-switched traffic over a circuit-switched medium; dial-up Internet calls could last hours tying up circuits with almost completely dead air.
You might be interested in this CRD video, it covers basically the entire dial-up Internet era and almost every regulatory hurdle involved with setting up an ISP here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ympjaibY6to
Vespasian
The intention is to not allow hardware vendors to give themselves an edge on said hardware when it comes to software and services.
You can sell hardware just fine without having to disclose anything .
When you want your "hardware" to become a "platform" and offer a lot of other services on it (including distributing third party software) then you have to provide a level playing field.
And you being very large means that you can afford to add another API to the documentation.
sofixa
> If you get big enough
Don't worry, you have a higher chance of getting hit by an meteorite while doing jumping jacks while riding a giraffe than getting big enough to be covered by DMA/DSA.
> Proximity pairing
Bluetooth?
> AirPlay
Chromecast exists and is quite open, this is not rocket science.
> AirDrop
Bluetooth and the new thing where you can just send to a nearby Android phone exist, again, really not rocket science.
And etc etc etc. None of these are some prorpietary unsolvable issues (like if the EU had said that they have to allow anyone to build their own M-chips), it's just that Apple choose to only make them work with their ecosystem.
bri3d
> Proximity pairing
> Bluetooth?
It's not in or around the standard at all. Android/Google has Fast Pair. I guess Apple get to make their own Fast Pair now.
> Chromecast exists and is quite open, this is not rocket science.
Chromecast is not open at all. Google provide SDKs for specific platforms, but you can't just go make a Chromecast receiver device.
surgical_fire
> I get the push for openness in devices but I'd never want to sell hardware in Europe, honestly
Then don't.
I am certain other companies would be fine occupying that space.
ankit219
Wouldn't other companies run into similar issues given they know whatever they make could be used by other companies for free if they become big enough?
swat535
Ironically, this would be the best thing that could happen to EU, reducing its reliance further from US by building in house technologies.
freedomben
> They're trying to compel Apple to deliver interoperability for basically every unique Apple feature
IANAL but the impression I got wasn't that they are requiring Apple to deliver interoperability, just that Apple can't block it. I.e. they can't create APIs that enable those things and not allow third parties to invoke them.
bri3d
Each feature I listed comes with a clause equal to "Apple shall implement an interoperability solution that provides third parties with access to the same AirPlay feature described in the preceding paragraph as available to Apple, in a way that is equally effective as the solution available to Apple."
Even each sub-functionality (for example, AirDrop Contacts Only mode) is enumerated as "shall implement."
tacticus
> they can't create APIs that enable those things and not allow third parties to invoke them.
Entertainingly the same reason microsoft didn't lock down the kernel interfaces that lead to crowdstriking everything. MS wanted to be the only security product in the kernel.
snotrockets
To comply, for every item in that list, Apple can decide to enable it world wide, or only enable it for devices sold in the EU.
The latter would cost them more, both to initially implement and to maintain.
It'd be interesting to see which items they'd decide are not worth the forking cost and would be enabled world wide then, and what they consider enough of crown jewels to be limited to the EU.
spogbiper
This brings back memories of the bad old days on Microsoft Windows where only Microsoft applications had access to secret APIs. Nobody defended MS back then. Surprised to see comments defending Apple now.
radimm
Lived through it and while it might be similar, Microsoft had monopoly at that point (90% and higher share in personal computers - depending on the market). Apple is nowhere near that.
thyristan
Apple is a monopoly due to their closed ecosystem. They do have a monopoly on headphones that properly work with iphones, operating systems that properly work with apple computers, operating systems and application delivery mechanisms that work with iphones, etc. They could get rid of their legal problems by being more open and supporting open standards, but they don't want to. So as a monopoly, they have to be forced...
averageRoyalty
You've moved the goalposts. A monopoly usually refers to market share or ownership over unique technology. Neither are true with Apple.
spogbiper
it seems awfully similar.. MS using their dominance in the OS market to establish dominance in the application software market vs apple using their mobile phone to establish dominance in smart watches, etc.. the scale is a bit different since we have the duopoly in the mobile market, but it still doesn't seem like something we want.
threeseed
It was around the time Apple was about to go bankrupt when Microsoft had about 95% share.
Compare this to iPhone activations of new phones which is at 33% and declining [1]. Which means Android's market share of 70%+ is going to get larger over time.
https://9to5mac.com/2024/04/24/iphone-market-share-new-low-a...
gundmc
No, the article you linked specifically says this is because of increased quality and fewer new features reducing the rate at which users upgrade. Apple still has roughly 60% of the installed user base in the US.
pmontra
It's not about a monopoly. That word never occurs in the document. It's about interoperability and nurturing a market.
I quote from the EU document
> connected devices of all brands will work better on iPhones. Device manufacturers will have new opportunities to bring innovative products to the market, improving the user experience for consumers based in Europe.
About developers:
> The measures will accelerate their ability to offer a wider choice to European consumers of innovative services and hardware that interoperate with iPhones and iPads.
The DMA defines gatekeepers as "large digital platforms providing so called core platform services, such as for example online search engines, app stores, messenger services" and lists their obligations prohibitions. Apple is one of them because it's sufficiently large.
Smaller companies are not gatekeepers and are out of the scope of the DMA.
eastbound
AirDrop has 100% monopoly on iPhone. iPhone has 0% other ways to share files via bluetooth than AirDrop.
As a user, I must be able to switch platforms at the end of the lifespan of a phone or Mac. So, buy a non-mac computer and then later a non-iPhone phone. So things need to interoperate.
That position from the EU is genius because it’s capitalism at its highest form. (Next is, all Windows apps must work on Macs, sounds like a joke but you’ll notice we already live in a world where they’re all webapp/electron, so it’s literally not a problem).
shuckles
This is really funny. Seriously? Sharing files _over a particular protocol_ is the scope of your monopoly? Going further: your claim isn't even true. Any app can write data to a bluetooth connection. So the monopoly is even narrower than that.
Tteriffic
There’s a difference. Microsoft competed unfairly because it sold software like Word that apparently internally used secret system calls only Microsoft devs knew about. They gave their other software divisions a big advantage, extending their dominance in OS to apps. Apple software, like Pages, apparently only uses the same set of system calls available to everyone else.
spogbiper
right.. but Apple watches and headphones get to use secret/enhanced calls. Apple payment software as well, basically all the things on the EU's list are using some form of the same idea to restrict any other vendor from having comparable functionality.
Tteriffic
Agree with you on the watch and AirPods. For other services no. They either do provide some API, like for payments, iCloud files or Auth, or can’t do so safely, AirDrop and iMessage. And for those alternatives do exist. Just not as system integrate.
indrora
For those curious: It's somewhat documented if you read between the lines that the "secret APIs" that everyone was afraid of were really things like string management and what-have-you in a shared library among many different Microsoft products.
Meanwhile, Apple has a habit of hiding functionality behind a lot of obscure API calls that aren't documented and require special entitlements to call.
jemmyw
Pages doesn't do anything that interesting. There are private APIs that Apple apps use or that they gatekeep. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2021/05/10/apple-zoom-ipad-cam...
psittacus
Can you say the same thing about iCloud, AppStore?
TiredOfLife
But Apple is literally doing the same. They sell apple watch that uses secret system calls that no competitor can use.
rchaud
> "Today's decisions wrap us in red tape, slowing down Apple's ability to innovate for users in Europe" the company said in an email.
Authored by Apple Intelligence? Certainly enough training material exists, considering all prior statements bemoaning the EU/EC. Here's Apple sounding the alarm on the evils of USB-C [0]
"When it was introduced in September 2021, an Apple representative told BBC News: "Strict regulation mandating just one type of connector stifles innovation rather than encouraging it, which in turn will harm consumers in Europe and around the world."
_ink_
Guess, that's good news for repebble users in the EU.
Re: Post from yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43401245
quitit
My take aways from this:
- The EU’s interpretation of the DMA is vastly different from what they actually wrote on paper.
- If Apple were asking hardware vendors to access iOS through these methods it would be deemed anticompetitive.
- There is now an opportunity for Apple to not support standards, forcing vendors to use their methods or not have access to the platform: making it more costly for hardware vendors to access the full market.
mullingitover
I imagine this was already in the works before the recent prison shanking of transatlantic relations.
Get ready for a raft of new and extremely principled anti-monopoly regulations from former allies, I'm sure they're just getting started on writing those.
distortedsignal
Is there a location for the actual order? The linked article doesn't have a link to the order (SHAME Reuters) and the details on the actual order are sparse.
impish9208
The actual implementation requirements are insane. You thought your clueless product manager asked for unreasonable timelines? Well now get ready to write code to politicians’ specs!
Plagiarizing my own comment from a few months ago below.
We need to ensure maximum interoperability and no differentiation across different computing platforms and applications. And politicians are, of course, the most knowledgeable about these things. Perhaps they should also consider enforcing the following suggestions to open up the marketplace:
— All applications that expect to be in scope for EU regulations should be written in one of the programming languages approved by the Secretariat on Digital Interoperability. The Division of Programming Languages and Operating Systems within the aforementioned agency will also be tasked with adding, removing, or otherwise modifying the list of approved languages and runtimes. In the future, it may even design and release a new language of its own in order to minimize arbitrary uniqueness among digital services within the bloc.
— Companies must submit their feature plans to the Bureau for Open Competition before releasing them to their customers. The BOC will then convene a task force comprising of the submitter's competitors to ensure that the proposed feature would not unfairly harm them in the marketplace.
— Gatekeepers under the DMA must make their source code (extensively documented) available to any other gatekeeper upon request. This will ensure maximum competition in the marketplace.
— Non-EU compliant Integrated Development Environments (IDEs) are hereby banned from being used by gatekeeper and future-gatekeeper companies. Compliant IDEs will enforce policies that discourage and prohibit anti-competitive practices as part of the bloc’s Shift-Left initiative. This will enable digital service providers to prevent tendencies that might harm their competitors.
bigyabai
I know you're joking, but none of these things actually foster fair competition so it's not making it into the language of a real bill. It's possible to enforce meaningful interoperability without forcing source code disclosure or enforcing a particular IDE/language.
lysace
Know the difference between big-shot news agency journalism and small-scale journalism? The latter links to the exact resource that is the source to establish their credibility. The former relies on its brand and treats the source URL as a trade secret.
So tired of this. How do we get out of this? Regulations?
Does anyone have a link to the actual court order?
pas
I would start here
https://digital-markets-act.ec.europa.eu/questions-and-answe...
then
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_...
lysace
More detailed links have been posted already in the thread.
But I want Reuters/etc to include these links.
pas
I don't even understand why they are not including them. It's not like this amazing EU page will steal their clicks (and eyeballs).
It's probably the old news mindset, where they are the record. :|
dmitrygr
I am suddenly seeing why EU has many fewer startups than US. Get successful enough and you are forced to give your work away to everyone. What clearly took millions of hours of work to perfect becomes public property with no compensation to you. Why is AirDrop better than Android Beam? Probably much work on polishing and designing it right. It uses a very clever custom peer-to-peer wifi mode that "magically" coexists with existing WiFi connectivity to make it work in all cases, something google never invented, Apple did. And yet... now Apple is forced to give the design away (because interop requires implementing the same design on both side).
Here are the actual instructions: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_25_...
https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/2...
https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/2...