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Feral pig meat transmits rare bacteria

larusso

It’s somewhat scary that it still can take years to find the route cause for these kinds of infections. Two years back I had a month stretch in stomach pains. The worst I ever had. I had this on and off for 2-4 years. Happened once a year and was gone. I went to multiple doctors and did bloodtests etc. I then had a Colonoscopy and Gastroscopy. They want some scared tissue in my duodenum. Reason was some bacteria or fungi which they where then able to test for. Wich is funny because they did all kinds of bloodtests before … Long story short, I received a special antibiotic and everything was fine. My theory was that I eat something problematic while being in Egypt around 2018.

Tade0

Sometimes it's "just" helicobacter pylori.

I had a particularly widespread infection a while ago, so my GP prescribed Amoxicillin.

Suddenly the stomach pains, which used to be a regular thing for me whenever I ate something hard to digest, disappeared altogether.

Turns out this antibiotic is part of the concoction they have you take to deal with stomach ulcers, as it deals with the bacteria responsible for them.

I have no confirmation that was indeed the case here aside from a previously diagnosed chronic doudendum inflammation, but the difference was night and day, so this is my working theory.

petre

You also need a proton pump inhibitor taken one hour before the antibiotic and before food for a more effective treatment.

The chronic duodenum inflamation could also be linked to gut microbiota depletion. I had mild lactose intolerance for years until I took probiotics for a few months and started eating whole milk youghurt (as unfermented milk the question) as part of my regular diet. It needs to be real yoghurt, not the phony sweeter one with corn starch, sugar or fruit added to it. Also UHT milk might screw up your gut microbiota. Make sure you take probiotics during and after the antibiotic treatment.

AStonesThrow

Seconding this.

I'm unsure of interactions between antibiotics and detrimental gut flora such as Candida albicans, but Western medicine pretends that doesn’t exist anyway

petre

I read about a guy getting iraquibacter from desert dust in Egypt and getting treated with phage therapy by his wife. Needless to say I'll avoid Egypt.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/07/08/health/phage-superbug-killer-...

skellera

That’s an amazing story. The wife really gathered together all the right people to create a phage treatment to save her husband’s life. Great job on all the doctors and scientists that figured out how to make it so quickly.

AStonesThrow

To my intense interest recently, I learned that the word sarcophagus literally means “eater of flesh” and indeed has Eucharistic connotation, but of course most commonly applied to Pharaonic caskets.

hackyhacky

Which antibiotic did they give you?

cpgxiii

It could have been Rifaximin (brand name Xifaxan), which is a somewhat standard "special" antibiotic for gut issues.

larusso

Uff sorry would need to check. It’s been a few years already since I got the treatment.

mertleee

After having a seemingly "random" bout of cdiff after receiving a highly potent antibiotic for a "random" salivary gland infection - colonoscopies and antibiotics really scare me.

I believe the salivary gland infection was a result of some non-covid illness I had that may have been linked to some odd vaccine side effect or my tanked immune system.

Gut stuff is so important.

kragen

The clickbait headline should be replaced by one that somewhere mentions the word "brucellosis", because that's what he had. We aren't talking about exotica like meningococcemia, ehrlichiosis, or meloidosis here.

dillydogg

There are between 100-200 cases of brucellosis in the US each year, so I would call that rare. It's common worldwide, but not where this patient lives. Also, the species of Brucella is a less common one in the US. Erlichiosis is closer to 1000 per year.

donnachangstein

A lot of things that are rare in the US, e.g. trichinosis, are still endemic in Europe. Something like > 50% of pigs in Eastern Europe are infected while there are < 20 human cases per year in the US because of better agricultural standards. Part of the reason you can eat a medium rare pork chop in the US and not die. I love bacon.

hn_throwaway_99

> you can eat a medium rare pork chop

Wut? Do people really do that? I would assume "medium rare" for a pork chop would mean that some of the meat would still be pink, and I personally would never even think of eating pork that wasn't cooked all the way through.

TheSpiceIsLife

2021 data from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control:

Bulgaria and Croatia had the highest rates of trichinellosis at 0.42 cases per 100,000 population, accounting for 58% of all cases reported in 2021. Taking those two countries gether and extrapolateing to whole US population of 3400 hundred thousand (340 million) would be 1428 cases - definitely much higher that <20, which would be something like 0.0002 per 100,000.

The total number of reported infections in 2021 was 79 cases for the whole European Union / European Economic Area was 79 cases for a total population of 4500 hundred thousand (450 million), an infection rate of 0.02 cases per 100,000.

Discounting the two worst countries would reduce the number to about 40 cases per 4500 hundred thousand population would bring the rate of infection to something like 0.008 - not entirely too far from the US.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/AER...

dyauspitr

Who eats medium rare pork in the US? I don’t think I’ve ever seen it.

MillironX

Maybe semantics, but Brucella suis isn't a "rare bacteria," it's a rare cause of a rare (human) disease in the US. B. suis is endemic in feral pig populations.

kragen

It's kind of rare, just not in the way I was hoping for when the headline tricked me into clicking it.

ttyprintk

I feel like in the case of bacterial meningitis, they would have. Would you rather see, “Brucellosis hits goat farmer, but not from where you expect!”

bigstrat2003

The headline would be far less meaningful for most people if it said that. The vast majority of people would have no idea what "brucellosis" even is.

kragen

You generally don't make utterances less understandable by adding words.

bigstrat2003

It was definitely not clear to me that you just wanted to add words. I took you as meaning that you wanted the headline to be "Feral pig must transmits brucellosis", which would be significantly less clear.

labster

There are words that add ambiguity to sentences, like “quite” and 「ちょっと」(chotto), but names of diseases are not that.

wirrbel

ah, thanks, that isn't extremely exotic.

dbcooper

♫ The cattle all have brucellosis, We'll get through somehow ♫

pfdietz

Thank you, Warren.

kazinator

> Though he couldn’t recall the specific hunter who gave him the biohazardous bounty, he remembered handling the raw meat and blood with his bare hands—a clear transmission risk—before cooking and eating it.

Well, of course he could perfectly recall, but he's not going to rat out his friend.

Zuider

In the USA, it is open season on feral swine all year around, no permit required, as they are a very noxious pest. In Texas, you can even go heli-hogging!

kazinator

Right; I didn't think the friend did anything illegal by hunting feral pigs.

Still; someone might call him asking questions, which is trouble enough, and who knows where that might lead.

Our first instinct should be to protect everyone in our circle from even the slightest hassle.

ekelsen

Or he was the hunter?

a3w

Was the 'a zombie outbreak game making-of-video' placed in the middle of this article on purpose, or by automatic CMS?

Nextgrid

Ars seems to have succumbed to this dumbass US trend of putting a random video 3 lines into any news article, since clearly 3 lines is too much for today's attention spans.

Edit: it may be a fallback for an ad, according to this forum thread? https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/ars-video-callisto-pro... Still stupid though - so the user is already costing you money by blocking ads, so how about we waste 10x the money in bandwidth serving up a pointless video?

xorcist

Ars is perfectly usable without Javascript. Either use Noscript or click the uBo shield and deselect the script tag.

dharmab

At this point I have uBo disable JS by default and bound a hotkey to turn it on as needed.

jdthedisciple

This should help everyone understand a little better the origins - or perhaps wisdoms - of the pork taboo which was discussed here recently [0]:

Pigs are simply a potpourri of all sorts of bacteria that you don't want in you.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410885

swampthing

That's not at all the conclusion of the article you linked to. In fact, that theory is discounted by it.

> Price points out, however, that none of these theories fully accounts for the taboo. Pig-rearing, after all, had existed for thousands of years in the region, even in times of drought, and many types of meat can harbor the larvae that cause trichinosis.

> For Price, the key piece of evidence is the sole reason given for the taboo in the biblical text—the fact that the pig “has hooves and does not chew its cud.” In other words, it’s unlike ruminants. He argues that this harks back to an era when the Israelites were simple pastoralists. As their descendants settled down in towns and cities, raising pigs became a more viable option. “This detracted from the fantasy of living like their ancestors,” says Price, prompting Judean priests to ban eating pork.

> Rosenblum argues that the pig taboo only gained special status with the invasion of the Levant by the forces of the Macedonian ruler Alexander the Great in 332 B.C. These European conquerors enjoyed their pork, and pig consumption in the Levant soared. So did tensions between Judeans and their Hellenistic rulers, including the Ptolemaic kings of Egypt and the leaders of the Seleucid Empire based in today’s Iraq.

teleforce

If you care to read the comments for the mentioned article (318 comments) including mine, perhaps you'll get the different perspectives on eating pork [1].

Although the article is a good one but the conclusions can be misleading because it's biased toward archeological evidences that most probably did not tell the entire story.

Just like the history of people migration you simply cannot rely on one aspect of archeological evidences alone by ignoring genetic and proto-languages, for examples.

The same with dietary constraints and prohibitions you need to take into account other evidences for example religions together with the other archeological evidences.

Although the article mentioned religions early on but it kind of dismissed them at the end. For me it's rather myopic view and incomplete methodology of doing research since you need to take every relevant aspects into account for your valid conclusions especially the other important factors in dietary constraints in this case the religious prohibitions.

[1] The Origin of the Pork Taboo:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43418499

swampthing

I don't think that's accurate — the article doesn't dismiss religions at all, it examines theories for why religions have the taboo in the first place.

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throwanem

I knew this man the instant they said he's in his seventies and still taking boar. Who knew Uncle Bram was still kickin' around after all these years?

taosx

I ate a lot of such boar meat last year in Greece, it instantly became my favorite due to the hardness and taste but based on this I may avoid it for the foreseeable future.

hoseyor

You have nothing to be concerned with if it is cooked thoroughly to safe temperatures. So anything that is slow cooked over time would be safe if cooked to 145° for whole and 160° for ground meat.

The subject person may have undercooked it or likely even come in contact with it while dressing a hog, i.e., touching an eye, scratching the nose, or even touching something that later caused cross contamination.

Loughla

Every outbreak story that has ever been printed has that as a background fact. When eating meat, make sure it's cooked thoroughly. I love a good, high quality, rare steak when I know the origin of the animal. But literally everything else gets cooked very, very thoroughly.

roxolotl

So I preface this by saying there’s 0 evidence that chronic wasting disease can target humans.

The one thing you can’t kill by cooking are prions. I’ve had a good deal of venison from regions where chronic wasting disease is now prevalent and whenever I’m reminded of its existence I get a tiny bit of fear that it’s just lurking waiting. All the prion death stories out there are horrifying and random.

satvikpendem

> Every outbreak story that has ever been printed has that as a background fact

That's definitely not the case, some people eat raw meat too [0].

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/15/teenage-boy-di...

sim7c00

in a lot of places ppl will never ever touch rare meat. its disgusting to them, unsanitary. my wife loves sushi but refuses to eat rare fish. she says to her its like eating litteral sh/t. conditioning from where she was raised. (she eats the rice n cucumber rolls haha)

we cook salmon so thoroughly it makes fried chicken look raw :'). God bless spices!

Id never recommend eating raw meat. I worked at a distribution butchery for super markets in a country that arguably has one of the cleanest and strictest pipelines for such stuff and i'll tell u. its just people packing ur stuff.. its incredibly easy for a chain of events to happen to get properly sourced meat infected with pretty much anyhting. many opportunities along the route from slaughter to packaging etc.

its not gross or badly managed, just how it is with humans handling things, heat needed during the process, many transports and different handoffs during production process.

so yeah, cook it n cook it good is all i can say. dont trust some sticker on a package to tell u its safer than somethin else

potato3732842

Slow cooking "as practiced" is a VERY safe cooking method for anything sus because people tend to go way hot for internal temp, like 180-205ish (freedom degrees obviously), in order to render the fat.

bigstrat2003

Why would the temperature differ for ground vs whole meat? Surely the same temperature would have the same ability to kill bacteria no matter the way the meat was processed.

potato3732842

Because there's lot of bad stuff that's external to the muscle that can wind up on the surface as a result of the butchering process. When you grind the meat you potentially mix that throughout so you gotta cook it throughout whereas a steak can be eaten raw-ish in the center.

This is how ground beef e-coli outbreaks work. People don't cook their burgers through and get sick.

nkrisc

Based on the article it seems the infection likely occurred while he was handling the raw meat. Wear gloves and wash your hands and surfaces well and take precautions to avoid cross-contaminating ingredients that won’t be cooked to safe temperatures. Standard kitchen and food safety stuff.

If you’re not preparing it yourself, then it could be reasonable to avoid it if you’re aren’t confident in the preparation.

metaphor

Was thinking the same thing as well. I've hunted in this region a long time ago (on a private hunting club in Ocala) with an old friend from uni who explicitly advised that wearing gloves while handling wild hog was an absolute safety must because of infection risk.

gcheong

In the article the person said they had been getting the feral hog meat from a hunter who had gifted him raw meat several times and that he handled it with his bare hands while preparing it and then cooking it an eating it. The doctors surmised it was most likely his handling it with bare hands that was the vector of transmission, not eating the cooked meat.

jcd000

You are safe as long as pig meat is cooked well done, which we always do in Greece. But it pays to be aware and careful.

atmosx

The people of Epirus, Crete, and Central Greece, in particular, have perfected the art of cooking meats like lamb and boar.

taosx

Thank you for all the assurances and suggestions for the future. The meat was cooked very well but the problem I think it's that me and my friends (hunters) were unaware of such a possibility.

We were the ones that brought back, cleaned and prepared the boar with our bare hands with no precautions (we were in the mountains). The only thing that gives me a bit of piece of mind is that several months passed since then and we have no symptoms and I know many other people that have eaten wild boar from that area that have no symptoms.

ethagknight

Not to be that guy, but the pork and beef industries are well known for fearmongering around any alternative source of product, be it from Mexico, Latin America, or in this case wild boar that are literally breeding like rabbits and running amok across Texas and other parts of the American south. Unregulated competition is a big problem for the industry.

When I read an article like this, I sort of roll my eyes, cook your meat properly, enough with the scare tactics!

Maybe to put it another way, why is this article being written? Just a nerdy interesting issue with targeted appeal that has arisen? Slow news day? More likely a campaign of some sort for some reason but someone wants to squash.

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rvba

> an extremely infectious bacteria

> In the US, there are only about 80 to 140 brucellosis cases reported each year, and they're mostly caused by B. melitensis and B. abortus

The article doesnt seem to be consistent...

blackeyeblitzar

Interestingly, on the front page right now is a discussion titled "The Origin of the Pork Taboo"

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43410885

fxtentacle

And this article says "study from Saudi Arabia, where Brucella is endemic", which I'd say would be a pretty compelling reason not to eat pigs in Saudi Arabia.

hoseyor

It’s crazy to think that a religious dictate of Islam and Judaism may have its origins in not cooking meat thoroughly or good practices during dressing and butchering.

usrusr

What's crazy about that? Religion used to be long term knowledge encoding (multigenerational). Evolved knowledge, the group that stumbled into a pig taboo just happened to be more successful than the group without. In an area where pigs are better not eaten, either the former would eventually replace the latter or the advantageous knowledge spreads. I'd consider it crazy to think of (the roots of) religion to be anything else.

prmoustache

Not at all.

They had identified a global health issue and a potential source without necessarily knowing all the details. Banning pork seemed reasonnable if they couldn't make sure people don't get sick after eating it.

h0l0cube

Those religious dictates were well before germ theory.

aprilthird2021

Many religious dictates of the two religions with a standing religious law and polity had a usefulness in the past and a second, slightly different usefulness in the modern era of loneliness, alienation, lack of identity, etc.

jajko

I presume you know nothing about islam, but pigs are off the table (and kitchen) without exception. I don't think there is a way to buy it there, same as beef in India for example (even pork I never saw on any menu some 15 years ago when spending 6 months backpacking there, and I saw literally 1 pig altogether in those 6 months).

Hojojo

From how I understand it, pigs became taboo because they are a common disease vector. There's nothing fundamentally different between pigs, horses, and cows/bulls which would otherwise motivate banning one over the other. One could apply the same thing to cows in India, where the benefits of keeping cows (milk, dung, labor) outweigh the benefits of slaughtering them for food while also being more sustainable.

black_13

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