Apple Loses Top Court Fight Over German Antitrust Crackdown
38 comments
·March 19, 2025focusedone
iwooky
thanks!
euroderf
What was Apple's legal effort based on? That somehow all the market numbers are wrong? That although it might seem like Apple is "in a strong position", the reality distortion field states otherwise?
bmandale
The legal theory of "every minute we delay this from going into force we make a million dollars".
fsckboy
how does this work in the EU, wouldn't regulating a "single market monopoly" be an EU/EC issue and not a German issue?
iamkonstantin
This is a case by Germany’s own cartel watchdog, the “market” it refers to is the German market. This is unrelated (though compatible with) the DMA.
lnauta
AFAIK the EU law has to be implemented on a local level, and the countries' agencies can uphold in their respective country. Once a single country has a precedent, this can be used by other member states.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
District5524
Nope. 1) Not all of the "EU law" behaves the same way. There are legal acts of the EU that are directly applicable (like most provisions in regulations), there are even some provisions of the primary legislation (treaties) that can be applied directly (i.e. are binding and can be litigated). Of course, there are also legal acts that need implementation (like most provisions of directives). 2) EU law is upheld both by the EU Court of Justice (Luxembourg) and national courts, this depends on the cause of action you have. 3) An "agency" has a special meaning in the EU, that doesn't mean the same thing as a federal agency in the US (as a branch of the executive). There are instead EU institutions and national public bodies (whose exact nomenclature depends on local law) that may also have the task of upholding legislation. 4) No precedents are necessary or used at the EU level. Precedents are more a common law thing, they have an explicit binding nature for courts there. While there are common law countries (Cyprus, Ireland, Malta) with precedents, their precedents have no special place or role in how EU law works, there is no stare decisis how it works in common law. So, this is a national decision based on German national enforcement reviewed by a German court.
caycep
honestly, this is where Apple's intersection between science and humanities should include political science, and ethics.
mmooss
> Apple's intersection between science and humanities
What does that refer to?
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oldpersonintx
[dead]
richwater
[flagged]
righthand
American tech companies should focus on failing their own American customers rather than continually extorting the entire globe.
richwater
[flagged]
hgomersall
And they take 30% of everything sold through the app store. That's rent extraction pure and simple, not to mention their ability to shut down any apps they don't like. This is a direct function of their market power. It is precisely what the governments should be protecting against.
piva00
American companies can always withdraw from the market if they don't like its rules.
There's no extortion, they are choosing to do business in the EU, aren't they? Yourself said it:
> You can buy or not buy an iPhone. The behavior of the eco system is crystal clear.
Apple can sell or not sell an iPhone in the EU, they chose to sell and the behaviour of the ecosystem is crystal clear :)
freeone3000
Anticompetitive behaviour by monopolistic players is interfering with the ability of new companies to gain marketshare.
dmitrygr
Do you legitimately believe that someone is just going to go and write a new mobile operating system?
freeone3000
But Apple sells more than phones: it also sells keyboards, mice, external trackpads, wireless headphones, and connected watches. Notably, Pebble had some significant issues recently (https://mashable.com/article/pebble-smartwatch-back), because they were not allowed to use the same connectivity functionality of the iPhone that the Apple Watch does. Non-apple headphones don’t and can’t support handoff.
Apple is using their market position in the smartphone space to bolster their products, and hamper competing products, in their other product categories.
jajko
Why not do both? Its not like those activities are mutually exclusive. Mega corps desperately avoiding taxes and pushing their own agendas definitely shouldn't get a free pass
richwater
This is about antitrust, not taxes.
The more antitrust legislation they can stack on American tech companies, the more frequently they can fine them and extract money.
bigyabai
Good, Apple's behavior deserves punishment. They're lucky the EU didn't demand 10 years of tax payments in advance after the Irish tax fraud scheme.
Hikikomori
Maybe US companies should stop doing illegal things then.
rdm_blackhole
As a European I agree. It's a shame that in 2025, the EU tech sector is so dependent on the US companies.
piokoch
[flagged]
bogwog
Every time theres some news of the US trying to regulate Apple, people here respond with comments like "what about Google?!".
And when theres news of the EU trying to do it, they respond with comments like yours, accusing the EU of trying to fine US companies instead of competing with them.
In both cases, there are also endless (and uninformed) arguments about how Apple isn't a monopoly.
But yours also adds a new element to it, accusing the EU of being anti-Trump, so kudos.
The conclusion I've come to is that tech companies (particularly Apple) can do no wrong in the eyes of a lot of HN readers, and it truly is a waste of time to try and have a productive discussion on this topic. Which sucks, because this place usually does result in interesting discussions, more so than other sites (even if there are a lot bad takes)
Hikikomori
Regulations create the competitive environment that these free market proponents like to talk about as it puts all competitors on a level playing field, usually raising the bar to some minimum they all must do that is a benefit to consumers and the environment. With no regulation megacorps are free to use their size and money to crate anti competitive environment to win rather than compete on the merits of their product, or just buy out the competition.
uhhhhhhh
It's a horseshoe. At some point regulatory capture comes in and makes the environment too expensive to enter let alone compete with established players
No regulation and too much regulation have terrible impacts, but identifying the middle ground is it's own problem.
noirscape
Apple mostly tends to get defensive fanboys because of buyers remorse. Their products are extremely overpriced and Apple markets their products not as products but as a lifestyle. If you buy Apple, that's to be "different", to be "the Elite". Even if this is pretty measurably false (owning an iPhone doesn't actually split you amongst lower/middle/upper class), a big part of their marketing is aimed at making a (prospective) customer feel like this.
This leads to a particular type of consumerism where criticizing Apple becomes criticizing Apple buyers, even when that criticism is purely aimed at the company.
Like, I think Apple makes good hardware (a good form factor is worth something and their devices "feel" good to use in your hand) and cynically exploits vague concerns about software security and privacy to lock down it's software and make more money from it's customers (and therefore support antitrust action against them), but by saying that, in the eyes of an Apple buyer, I'd just be a "hater".
https://archive.is/GAJzw