The Intenet Slum: is abandoning the Internet the next big thing? (2004)
85 comments
·March 19, 2025aucisson_masque
donatj
Some may even be oblivious to the fact that the article is from 2004 ;)
Deepfakes weren't even a fever dream yet.
unyttigfjelltol
Spam exploded in 2003[1] to the modern experience of it. Before that, spam was somewhat infrequent, even without countermeasures.
I recall in the 2001 time period being so annoyed by each individual spam note that I would respond to the appropriate "abuse@" email. By 2004, it was a torrent and totally impractical, and I don't think it was because of my own notes to administrators.
[1] https://www.emailtray.com/blog/email-spam-trends-2001-2012/
blitzar
When Gmail launched on April 1, 2004, there were two big selling points for me - storage and spam.
wruza
Well I sort of abandoned it now. I visit here and, occasionally, the articles posted here. Also a thin slice of very curated youtube content. And software documentation. And porn. That’s it.
Sometimes I accidentally “go out” by following a link with infinite scroll and wonder how people live in all that. It’s not very far from idiocracy and other dystopias, both internet- and socio-wise.
Where there’s many people with different views and no established culture, there’s chaos and insanity.
yazantapuz
If for internet we think of Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the like...then YES.
INTPenis
Yes the internet will become a slum of AI robots and loners.
What we need is a government sponsored regulated social media where we identify ourselves with eID, so that anything you do or say is actually tied to your person. Americans won't understand this but many European countries are already primed for it.
If you want to go slumming you're free to do so, but I want a stable and safe social media as an alternative.
borgdefenser
This is actually the complete opposite of what I want.
I would love to go back to people not using their real name and an internet that is wild, free and maybe even a little bit dangerous.
blueflow
Back to the classic imageboards? They still exist.
cbsks
Why not start now, Mr. INTPenis?
amiga386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgtsBm0IQ1Q
"That is when we present our solution. Mandatory digital identity verification for all humans, at all times."
(This video is a pitch-perfect parody of MGS2 but also prescient commentary on modern trends)
Ukv
Are sites that currently try to enforce real name usage, like Facebook, noticeably better for it than mostly-pseudonymous sites like HN/Reddit?
It doesn't really fix people being gullible (so will spread spam/scams or fall for phishing) or angry about some polarizing topic. Conceivably it could encourage civility, but if anything I feel I've seen arguments turn ugly far more often due to the personal nature.
borgdefenser
I think using your last name, counter intuitively makes discussion less civil.
In a form like this, if someone is insulted, it is just the idea and words that have been insulted.
When using your last name, it is the real person's identity that has been insulted. Then it goes both ways in a feedback loop involving two real people's real identity without the constraint that face to face confrontation would impose.
The only way to make that worse then would be to have ML algorithms running on top trying to nudge people to but heads for engagement.
Maybe we could design a system that is worse that in order to join you have tell someone using both real names that their newborn baby is ugly and instead of collecting a list of friends you collect a list of enemies. Short of that though we seemed to have really done a great job figuring out the worst possible form of communication.
Lanolderen
Facebook is pretty dogshit at it.
I have 2 fake accounts, one is named, in translation, Secret Dontknow, the other got hacked at some point and after recovering it it had a nice fake attractive asian woman persona on it. I just changed the location and ran with it. Both have yet to face any issues and they are at least 10 y/o accounts. I don't use them all that often but still.. Secret Dontknow is pretty obvious..
okeuro49
In the UK, if you hold opinions that are the same as the state, then expressing yourself using your name is safe.
If you don't, then you risk having a police officer show up at your door.
DrScientist
Actually you've got that wrong - the government/establishment agrees with Pearson, it was a member of the public that complained about her characterising pro-Palestinian protestors with a hate slur.
Back to the issue of overweaning government power - if you think the above is fixed by some sort of pseudo-anonymity online which is heavily tilted towards governments ( they know who people are, it's just you that doesn't ) - then I think you are sadly mistaken.
Ultimately the sunlight of transparency is much better than the murky darkness of anonymity - as comfortable as the blanket of anonymity is ( and yep I'm using that pseudo-anonymity right now ).
7bit
All the Chinese activists are truly happy about all the transparency about their person and their beliefs. I can hear them rejoicing in their cells.
yard2010
Democracy must not have to kill itself to prove that it exists.
null
ImHereToVote
The Yookay is cooked.
_Algernon_
This is not something I want.
I want social media to disappear.
The main issue with social media are the recommendation algorithms, and I don't want the government or private companies to be in control of them. In fact, I don't want anyone except myself to be in control of them.
pacifika
Yes it would make for a good law that whenever a recommendation algorithm is used the user must be able to fully control how the results are filtered and ordered including disabling it, and the service must remember the preference.
aleph_minus_one
> The main issue with social media are the recommendation algorithms, and I don't want the government or private companies to be in control of them. In fact, I don't want anyone except myself to be in control of them.
Quit being friend in real life with people who have a social media account on one of the "big" platforms (yes, I do know quite some people who do this!).
nodoll
>What we need is a government sponsored regulated social media..
There is no need for social media, a ten thousand idiots does not make one smart man.
Mountain_Skies
What does it make when those same "idiots" are voters?
bsenftner
The United States of Fascism
nodoll
[flagged]
fc417fc802
> so that anything you do or say is actually tied to your person
I don't need to link letters to a government issued ID to use the postal service. Why should government provided social media or email or whatever be any different?
kelseydh
> But I fear the cure may be worse than the disease, so much so that I penned a 25,000 word screed sketching the transformation of the Internet from an open network of peers to a locked-down medium for delivering commercial content to passive consumers.
This part he got right, though he was clueless to the power of social media. He also correctly predicted a rapid decline in the intelligence of content on the internet.
However he was quite off the mark in predicting that hacking and spam would stop internet use.
fzeroracer
Technically he's not wrong about spam, it's just that the classical view of spam is no longer applicable. When you think of the rise of AI-generated content and SEO-focused design, it is almost impossible to use the internet without being inundated by a deluge of low quality spam. Everywhere we go we're served ads for scam products, have to figure out if someone is an actual person or a bot and so forth.
And the balkanization of the internet is, essentially, what we're seeing.
bsenftner
Do not use ad networks, none of them, they are the source of all this Internet scummery. The spam, the low quality ads for fraud products, and the ads themselves are virus delivery networks. If you really need advertising to support your product, do you really have a product? Or are ya just gossip, er "social media". Social media is just gossip, monetized, what was before recognized as the lowest form of communication now monetized and washed from that dirty name "gossip", now it's "media", "social media"... what fools mass culture is composed.
zyx321
Rather than "spam", the usual term I see for genAI content is "slop" (original meaning: a mixture of kitchen waste and leftovers that is barely good enough for the pigs)
chungus
For those not familiar, this post is by John Walker[0] one of the co-founders of Autodesk who made AutoCAD. He passed away last year[1]
dash2
> When I'm feeling down I call it “Internet Gated Communities”, when in an optimistic mood, “The Faculty Club”. This may lead to what many observers refer to as “the Balkanisation of the Internet”—a fragmentation of the “goes everywhere, reaches everybody” vision of the global nervous system into disconnected communities. This may not be such a bad thing.
This happened. In the Philippines, for example, almost all online interaction takes place on Facebook. FB isn't a gated community, but it allows people to set up their own gated communities by the services it layers on top of raw http and html. Another word is "walled gardens", and again, walled gardens are popular because unwalled gardens become slums.
The point is, libertarians, open standards advocates and "old web" nostalgists need to recognize why these services are popular, if they are going to have a chance of protecting the openness they care about.
pajko
There was not even an AI back then, what would he say now?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chriswestfall/2024/12/18/the-da...
https://phys.org/news/2025-01-ai-linked-eroding-critical-ski...
null
valeg
see also: Pandora's Vox: On Community in Cyberspace - https://folksonomy.co/?permalink=2299
cookie_monsta
Betteridge's law in full effect
hotpepperishot
[dead]
Abandoning is not the answer.
I see the effect with my father, he never got much into it in the first place and now he is completely lost when he need to order stuff. So many scammy website featuring first in Google result thanks to seo optimisation or just advertisement.
Then he is completely oblivious to the fact that people can make deepfake video and believed one to be true when it was shown to him on someone else phone.
As much garbage there can be on the internet, you have to force yourself to keep up with it and overall technology otherwise you're just left behind at the mercy of those who adapted.