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NASA Whoosh Rocket

NASA Whoosh Rocket

86 comments

·March 18, 2025

hermitcrab

Model rocketry is a gateway drug for STEM. I bought my son an Estes model rocket kit when he was about 11. Now he is studying aerospace and astronautic engineering at university.

There are some fantastic model rocketry competitions for youngsters. There is one running in the UK right now (Google 'UKROC') and equivalent ones in the USA, France and Japan. Plenty of guidance is available and it isn't dangerous if you are sensible. We entered a team into UKROC 2 years running and had an amazing time.

bayouborne

I'm 66, and when I myself was 10 or 11 my friends on my street and I were completely obsessed with the Estes rocket and Cox .049 U-control scenes. Most of us were lucky enough to have engaged fathers and once the standard craft were assembled and flown, we all browbeat them mercilessly for more information for mods, shortcuts, hacks etc. My dad grew very wary of the 'Why can't we' type questions. I had modified a C-type engine Big Bertha rocket with an extra long transparent payload module which set the stage for various kidnappings of lizards, frogs, praying-mantises, eggs, multiple 1 and a quarter inch sockets, etc (all returned to earth unharmed, if not un-rattled). The nichrome wire igniters were troublesome for most of the kids. Bulky and expensive (for 4th graders) lantern batteries were hard to come by. We found we could steal D-cells from flashlights, hack cardboard tubes from paper towel rolls, reinforce with electrical tape, and make passable energy sources from that, etc. But all of that required questions from the closest available parent about voltage and series/parallel connections, as well as other questions about CG when modding the rockets themselves, etc. I think your STEM comment is very much on-point. None of my friends thought we were learning anything at the time. We were mostly just jazzed about doing fun stuff that had the potential for tearing itself apart in mid-air. I know the advent digital everything makes modeling systems for kids [Kerbal,etc] probably pretty trivial now, but actually crashing things in spectacular fashion IRL had/has it's own visceral rewards.

hermitcrab

My son enjoyed Kerbal Space program. But, fun[1] and educational as that is, it couldn't match the thrill of launching a real home-made rocket to ~1000 feet.

[1]Not for some of the developers, apparently. https://mcvuk.com/development-news/squad-devs-blast-kerbal-s...

timewizard

> WARNING – Extreme care must be exercised in flying a whoosh rocket and students must be supervised when using this type of rocket.

Only surpassed by the time I tried to grab a falling soldering iron by the tip this is the source of the worst burn I've ever received. I cannot stress how vicious an ignited alcohol mixture in a container can be.

maccam912

What went wrong?

timewizard

Something in my childhood I presume. In this specific case, you see how they depict the long necked "BBQ" style lighter? That's a /really/ good idea.

kbenson

> Something in my childhood I presume.

LOL, I can empathize quite a bit, as someone that has a nasty burn scar on my hand caused by a glob of melted saltpeter and sugar from an accidental ignition of a concoction I was cooking one fourth of July in my youth.

dmd

qoez

HN is turning into reddit/twitter

latchkey

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills.

HeatrayEnjoyer

Thank god.

thih9

Video demonstration (Whoosh Bottle Rocket by RamZland): https://youtube.com/watch?v=Lq_6-0Ra4Hk&t=55s

michaelmior

My high school chemistry teacher did this a few times with a water cooler bottle. In fact, the morning of our graduation, we were having breakfast at the school when he walked on stage holding a water cooler bottle and a lighter. I think he must have used too much alcohol that time because it blew out the bottom of the bottle and the rest of it shot several feet in the air.

Retr0id

"too much alcohol" tends to make it less explosive because the oxygen ratio becomes suboptimal.

hermitcrab

I'm not sure it is a good idea to do that indoors.

blacksmith_tb

Possibly not, though that larger polycarbonate water bottle is quite heavy, compared to the 2 liter PET soda bottles NASA is suggesting for outdoor firing, and it looks like the "nozzle" is the uncapped mouth, which would also help to keep it from hitting the ceiling.

hermitcrab

I would be more worried about setting fire to the building. Just seems like a totally unnecessary risk. But I have been called a 'safety Nazi'.

ggm

Nearly took out a <5yo kids eye with a bottle rocket showing off. Not my kid either. (he was safely out of distance a bit wiser) Haunts me still.

Rockets are fun. With one remaining eye explain to mummy and daddy how this happened again.

hermitcrab

Water bottle rockets have a surprising amount of energy. I managed to hit myself in the chest with one, after only a couple of pumps, and it fair knocked the wind out of me.

We also did some messing around with coke/butane rockets. These could easily knock teeth out and I made my son wear his full face cycling helmet before handling them.

Model rockets with solid fuel motors obviously require an even greater level of respect.

Loughla

Solid fuel at least is more controlled. You can ignite them from a very safe distance.

I've never been hurt by an actual rocket motor, but I thought I lost a finger with the woosh rocket that exploded. . . Luckily just a cut and some burns and not on my face.

hermitcrab

Solid fuel motors are quite hard to ignite. So they are pretty safe from that point of view. But:

Once the motor is ignited, nothing will put it out. Not even immersion in water.

The motors are not made to NASA standard and don't always do the expected thing.

Model rockets with solid fuel motors can go 1000s of feet. If they come down in one piece without a parachute (which does happen). You don't want to be under it.

They can set fire to dry ground. I've seen it happen.

None of the above are an issue if you are being sensible, following guidelines and paying attention.

nickmcc

For the latest in multi-stage high pressure, high altitude water powered rockets, this group is paving the way: https://youtu.be/xm-tGJxepUw?si=uGA--H1kPgBCVREd

hermitcrab

That is pretty impressive. Large empty spaces like that are a bit hard to come by in the UK.

rainingmonkey

"As at April 2022: 8.7% of land in England is of developed use, with 91.1% of non-developed use and the remaining 0.2% being vacant.

The top 3 land use groups were ‘Agriculture’ (63.1%), ‘Forestry, open land and water’ (20.1%), and ‘Residential gardens’ (4.9%)."

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/land-use-in-england...

hermitcrab

Perhaps I should have said "large empty spaces where you can launch a sizable rocket".

AStonesThrow

Two or three drops of fuel! That's a very counterintuitive contraption! I would really be reluctant as a teacher to bring a flame near something made entirely of plastic... and with no fins or guidance control on a ballistic trajectory? I mean it's an air-filled soda bottle, but still.

I also seem to recall a type of toy vehicle that was propelled by some compressed gas as it slid, suspended along a horizontal wire/string, but I'm drawing a blank regarding the type of propellant right now. It seemed safe enough to use indoors, especially considering the constrained pathway.

I loved water rockets as a kid and I also enjoyed actual model rocketry, except they seemed too hazardous for me to find a launch area where bystanders felt completely safe. Model rocketry is sometimes 90% modeling, and 10% launching them. Estes can make some really precious designs that fly horribly but look great in a Plexiglas cube on your shelf.

I lost most of the ones I built due to poor launch conditions, and while I chose deserted school campuses during vacation or weekends, I didn't make any friends with security patrols there!

userbinator

Two or three drops of fuel!

The stoichiometric AFR for isopropanol is 10.4:1 according to the sources I found. For 1g of fuel you need 10.4g of air which at SSL[1] corresponds to around 8.5L. One drop of fuel does consume several liters of air to burn. The volume difference is really that huge --- and the higher the AFR, the bigger the difference; gasoline engines are around 14.7:1, and diesels go much higher when idling or under light load.

Relatedly, fuel economy expressed as an area: http://theskepticalzone.com/wp/weirdly-fuel-efficiency-can-b...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_sea-level_conditions

tbrownaw

> I also seem to recall a type of toy vehicle that was propelled by some compressed gas as it slid, suspended along a horizontal wire/string, but I'm drawing a blank regarding the type of propellant right now. It seemed safe enough to use indoors, especially considering the constrained pathway.

I've heard of using ordinary rubber party balloons for this.

kelseydh

It looks like a pretty fun demo to do for students: https://youtu.be/xZ3hRrdj7Y0?t=445

krunck

When I was a kid I used to do this with propane. I'd fill it with a propane torch - which is set t mix the C3H8 and O2 to the right proportion - and light it. I would not use a restrictor/nozzle cap because it had plenty of thrust without it.

I survived my childhood unscarred, somehow.

finghin

I have never been to the US, but I wonder if this is equally safe in the EU where plastics regulations appear to have changed the density and feel of drinks containers over the past half-decade or more. They're obviously fine for carbonated drinks, and probably bottle-rocket use too, but I wonder about their structural integrity as a receptacle for alcohol combustion.

4gotunameagain

Only one way to find out !

hermitcrab

Soda bottles are surprisingly strong. Even if one fails, I think it would probably split, rather than creating dangerous shrapnel (citation needed).

PaulHoule

The patent for the PET soda bottle was granted to one of the Wyeth brothers!

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3733309A/en

The patent says they are good to 100 psi for regular operation and people pump them up to 2x that when they shoot them up as rockets.

It's fun to make a "chemical pressure bomb" out of that kind of bottle, the classiest way to do that is to use liquid nitrogen, the second classiest way is to put in a pellet of dry ice, if you have no class at all you put in some aluminum foil and either a strong acid ("The Works" drain cleaner) or a strong base (Lye/Sodium Hydroxide) which in either case will evolve hydrogen. [1]

The dry ice version goes off in 30-45 minutes if you put in just the pellet, if you add some hot water it works like a hand grenade and will explode less than a minute, cold water is intermediate. These are dangerous at point blank range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZygYNfAKjNs

but in my experience harmless 10 feet away. [2] [3] When I was in college my friends and I made a bunch of them and threw them into a vacant lot at night and thought 30 minutes later that we'd failed, but soon we heard a series of loud explosions which caused the neighbors to call the police. The cops drove by and shined a spotlight into the area and we were worried that the last one would go off when he was there but it exploded just after he drove off.

See also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor...

[1] ... and spray dangerous chemicals. Don't do it.

[2] had one blow the bottom out of a small plastic waste basket though and read a report which I couldn't find this time about a high school chemistry teacher who tried this in class and it blew up in a student's hand, blinding him

[3] usually the bottle is torn up such that most of the plastic is in one big piece with jagged edges, today people would worry about microplastic generation

bityard

TFA warned against using bottles other than soda because soda bottles are made to withstand a lot of pressure. Others may or may not.

I don't imagine ANY plastic bottle survives too many lift-offs.

PaulHoule

See https://waterockets.com/ for commercial kits for making really fancy pressurized water rockets, even 3-stage rockets! You can get many many uses out of a bottle.

In Larry Niven's Known Space books, rockets are launched from earth using some kind of super-compressed material encased in tanks made of some unobtanium, a vastly improved version of those water rockets.

vvchvb

I think so:

1. It's only a drop out two of alcohol

2. Carbonated drinks are at a very high pressure already.

I could, if I wasn't feeling lazy right now, do the math to compare the two pressures. Its easy stuff - two drops of alcohol combusted + assumption all the combustion products are ideal gases vs Henry's law for CO2. This last one will require looking up how much co2 is dissolved in the product, but thats not too hard.

But, like the other commentator pointed out.... there's only one way to find out.

trhway

>Flying model rockets is a relatively safe and inexpensive way for students to learn ...

according to the current laws - it isn't, and may be even more dangerous than walking to the school on your own.

Liftyee

Reading this in the UK, I'm not sure if "walking to school on your own" is supposed to be a safe or unsafe reference point.

I thought that children walking to school is unthinkable in the US because everything is designed for cars and public transit is inadequate/nonexistent. Made worse by endless suburbia stretching for miles. Someone please prove me wrong...

Nextgrid

> children walking to school is unthinkable in the US because everything is designed for cars and public transit is inadequate/nonexistent

The hysteria around it is even worse than any of the actual dangers.

jebarker

I live in the US and my daughter has/will have less than 1 mile to walk to every school she'll ever go to before college. Just an existence proof though!

dhosek

And if she goes to a small residential school, she can keep that up at college. I attended the Claremont colleges where all six campuses (there’s a seventh now) of the schools lay within a one square mile area and if you were silly and only attended classes at your own school, your longest distance between dorm and classroom might be half a mile or so.

Even a sprawling area like Tucson has a public elementary school in each square mile of residential neighborhood. I live in an inner-ring suburb of Chicago (Oak Park) which has 8 elementary schools (plus two middle schools) serving an area of 4.5 square miles. The middle schools require the longest travel distance of about 2.5 miles (taxicab metric). The high school serves a broader region, but that’s fairly typical in the Chicago area but the furthest students travel is about 4 miles (which is a bit less than the commute distance for the most distant students at the high school I attended as a kid one suburb to the south). My own grade school walk was less than half a mile. High school was three miles away for me, and I would get a ride or take the bus in the morning, but often walked home when there was less of a time pressure (sometimes I would walk with friends who lived in the opposite direction from me after school and then back to my own home which made my walk home five miles).

SamBam

Depends very much where you are. In a medium city many/most middle schoolers are walking to school.

boutell

I could say a lot, but I'll just point out that most American school districts provide school bus transportation.

rkagerer

Could a 3D printed nozzle of some sort improve its characteristics?

hermitcrab

Almost certainly. But it might need to be printed out of something with moderate heat resistance.

k7sune

Humm the next logical step would be to pressurize the rocket before igniting it. Or maybe to add some water in the bottle to increase the propelled mass. They just need a way to ignite the alcohol fume from the top……

neuroelectron

I would think the next logical step would be pressurizing a stainless steel thermos with liquid methane and mating it to a 3d printed copper prototype manifold and turbine pump.

desertmonad

Mentos and cocacola or maybe vinegar & baking soda variant could be safer. I'm sure kids would have fun with this. Loved launching bugs(unharmed) in my nova payloader as a kid :-)