North Korea Launders Billions in Stolen Crypto
70 comments
·March 18, 2025delegate
frontfor
Crypto (specifically USDT) is already in use by some commodities traders for international settlement (I used to work in this space). So I wouldn’t be surprised at all if terrorists do the same.
ricardobeat
How long until they get their hands on the US “strategic bitcoin reserve”?
CobrastanJorji
You have it backwards. The purpose of the reserve is to turn their crypto into money.
pessimizer
They don't have to. The creation of such a direct government subsidy to bitcoin holders will drive the price up anyway.
abirch
Until the NSA or Google uses a sufficiently powerful quantum computer: https://www.coinbase.com/learn/crypto-basics/is-quantum-comp... Then you can take anyone's crypto that you'd like.
drdeca
I believe, for bitcoin, that only works to spend coins from addresses that have already been used to spend coins, which, is therefore discouraged as a way to hold bitcoins? Instead, best practices are to, when sending from an address, to send all the unspent coins to addresses that have not been sent from yet. This does make things marginally harder for providing an address for people to send to though, because one has to change the address they are to send to at least every time one wants to spend what one has received.
For chains where one uses one persistent address, in order to allow other important features, then it could be more of an issue.
Still, I think solutions will probably be put in place before it becomes a real issue.
… hm, come to think of it, the use of public/private key pairs in cryptocurrencies, is, I think, pretty much exclusively used for signing, not for encrypting, right? In that case, it seems like an option based on hashes and ZKSNARKs should be able to play much the same role? So, even if all the purportedly quantum-safe alternatives to RSA and ECC end up vulnerable for the same reasons, I think probably something that only does the signing part should be possible? Or, hm, at least in the interactive setting…
realharo
If there's a strong enough consensus, everyone can just agree to migrate to some new technology and let the original go to zero.
rchaud
Hopefully historians do not miss the immense irony of a situation where the only 2 countries to debase their own monetary system for a pseudo-currency, both orginally used the US Dollar.
BiteCode_dev
Maybe the strategic reserve constitution will be a way to actually give money to them in exchange for crypto.
These days it feels anything is possible.
null
spraveenitpro
learn about Bitcoin Multisig security and then you tell me how long it will take
tenyrsmaxfrmnw
No present security will be suficient once IBM or others breaksthrough with Quantum. This will happen for sure. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I20KgRZCZEI
rtkwe
There's no guarantees that breakthrough is coming anytime soon. Scaling up the number of qubits in a processor is very hard and it's why progress has been pretty slow over the last decade.
snapcaster
Unclear this will "happen for sure", but even if it did there are quantum-proof encryption techniques
m3kw9
Maybe the reserve will buy wBtc that is on a L2 chain.
aurareturn
They say crypto doesn't have a killer app. They're clearly wrong. It has several: easy scams, rug pulls, money laundering.
permo-w
do we really think that an entire nation state is unable to set up the apparatus to cheat a few measly KYC checks?
coin to coin exchanges do not require KYC, so hypothetically if they can beat KYC (which surely they can) they wouldn't even need to be depositing the actual coins they stole.
adgjlsfhk1
The point of KYC isn't to make fraud impossible, but to make it expensive.
Scoundreller
Isn’t “expensive” only a problem if your cost basis is >$0 ?
adgjlsfhk1
North Korea's cost basis is >$0. They have limited numbers of hacks per year that they can perform, and every road block in between the hack and unrestricted dollars will drain a couple percent of the profit, add a couple percent chance that they get caught or scammed while trying to launder the money. All or these have costs and reduce the take-home profit for Russia.
rtkwe
It cost them something to train the groups that stole those coins; training, their higher standard of living, etc.
colejohnson66
still requires upfront cost. If that’s priced out of reach for most people, it’s still a deterrent.
ZeroTalent
KYC is easy to beat on most platforms. look into stealer logs, as in the cybersecurity terms— you get the victim's cookies and passwords and often can bypass 2FA. Often, they have enough information to beat KYC.
verteu
Depends on the scale. Withdrawing millions of dollars to a bank account will require more than the median user's cookies, passwords, & 2FA.
permo-w
you're just repeating a stock phrase you've heard here without any actual regard for the discussion being had
verteu
> do we really think that an entire nation state is unable to set up the apparatus to cheat a few measly KYC checks?
To withdraw a few thousand dollars? Easily. To withdraw 5 billion dollars of fiat? You'll face much more than "a few measly KYC checks."
permo-w
first of all it's 1.5bn, second of all they're obviously not going to withdraw it all in one account, they're going to find the absolute limit you withdraw from one account without hitting serious KYC, and then do that however many times they need to to withdraw the money
anonym29
Of course not. But it's still more work than passing the KYC checks on US Federal Reserve notes (there are none at all), or just printing fake US Federal Reserve notes that are so good it forces the Bureau of Printing and Engraving has to do expensive redesigns. Of course, America's own CIA has been long suspected of doing the exact same thing.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superdollar if you want to learn more.
magnuspaaske
The problem with counterfeiting dollars is that it only works until the design is changed and it's hard to transfer your capabilities. On the other hand hacking is convenient since it can be use for political leverage, espionage and similar.
anonym29
The problem with hacking is that it's far easier to patch a vulnerability than it is to redesign a currency note and reissue new batches of them across an entire printing press while removing the old ones (some real, some fake) from circulation very slowly.
Also, Bitcoin has never had the counterfeiting problem of currency notes, largely because there's no such capacity for bad actors to create or issue counterfeit Bitcoin, as Bitcoin backed by mathematical work that must be performed to in order to mine/"mint" new Bitcoin, unlike US Federal Reserve Notes, which are backed by nothing more than an Intaglio printing press, some engraving plates with publicly-available designs, and 3D security ribbons, ribbons featuring ink that is visible under a blacklight (you can find which chemicals exhibit this property on Wikipedia), some paper, and some linen. Oh, and every single one of those ingredients are are produced by a third party (NOT the US Bureau of Printing and Engraving), who all solemnly pinky promise they don't secretly keep and distribute any extras :)
IncreasePosts
America doesn't rescind or invalidate old money from circulation when a new design comes out though. No one is going to bat an eye at a 10 year old $100 bill coming through.
bilekas
Also I’m not expert but washing a significant amount of cash seems extremely more difficult than the Hacking enterprises?
schainks
So, they are banking with HSBC?
lupusreal
If the Kim family suddenly decided to take the money and run to Dubai (or where-ever crypto scammers retire to), I wonder if anything in North Korea would even change.
throwawayffffas
Riding a tiger is dangerous, climbing down is even more so.
arrosenberg
If he took all the money and ran? Yeah, there would be a nuclear power vacuum and a massive migration crisis towards the south that requires the US, China and Russia to be cooperative on to deal with. It would be the most hilarious way to start WW3.
giancarlostoro
Well there was the time someone wanted to stop for a sandwich...
BrandoElFollito
What is this reference?
maeil
Dubai is indeed where crypto scammers retire to.
thrance
They actually have an escape plan, with a base in Switzerland. Look it up, it's not even a secret.
EDIT: OK, turns it it's not that easy to find. I saw it in a documentary from a pretty serious source [1]. Unfortunately for you, it's in French (there should be a German version too).
yorwba
Do you have a timestamp? Searching through the transcript doesn't produce any hits for "Suisse" at all.
thrance
Found it! I linked the wrong video. The correct one is https://youtu.be/1CsRF3XLRLg, and you can find the info around the 14th minute.
wnc3141
that's a really interesting question! My only $0.02 is that there isn't a coherent political apparatus to transition political power - as I imagine that the power dynamics among the secondary rank is adversarial.
Nasrudith
There may be an awkward power vacuum as always with dictators setting up deliberately unclear lines of secession but chances are someone else with the most claim to 'legitimacy' would grab power. Just like how the royal bloodline dying out alone didn't mean there were no more kings.
codedokode
What's the merit of doing this?
metalman
crypto? Emperor Rocket Boy, has everything needed to go full ICBM NUKE, on a thumb drive, the crypto thing is just a side hobby, that shares time on whatever small mountain of GPU's that are used for all the rocket and submarine, nuke engineering that is going on in NK, which is his main hobby.
dist-epoch
They could sell it at market price (or slightly below) to the US strategic bitcoin reserve. I'm sure no one in the Trump administration would have any moral conundrums about this.
whou
[flagged]
This makes a lot of sense and it was an expected side effect of any decentralized currency from the very beginning. Bad actors/fraudsters/tax evasionists etc are going to eventually become the biggest users and end up owning a big chunk of it.
Without a shred or actual evidence, I'd be ready to bet that many terrorist groups are buying their equipment/weapons in crypto. Arms, drugs, laundering, etc, it's just so convenient.. And in time it will become worse.
That being said, I also understand that crypto is unavoidable - eg the concept of the blockchain would have been discovered sooner or later and now it can't be stopped.