Local social spending and political dissatisfaction of the economically deprived
13 comments
·February 27, 2025MrMcCall
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alephnerd
> Europe's taxes are so high because Hitler preyed on the uncared-for poor to rise to power and begin his reign of terror.
That's a complete misreading of the history of the welfare state in Europe.
Welfarism was always popular in Europe because Bismarck and other conservative European politicians in the late 19th century wanted to co-opt the Labor movement [0]
Staatssozialismus (and it's equivalents across Western Europe) were always fairly popular.
The Catholic Church (a major player in conservative politics at the time) also supported this welfare model as well [1] as they were aligned with the Christian Democracy and Integralism [2] movement.
[0] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Socialism_(Germany)
morkalork
>Europe's taxes are so high because Hitler preyed on the uncared-for poor to rise to power and begin his reign of terror
I feel like my north american centric education is showing here because I've never seen it framed like this before. It's always been portrayed as "Europe so enlightened" and "guilletine goes brr" but that last one never explained the other countries. Also seems like it's losing effectiveness. The far right is rising in Europe and no amount of vacation days or social safety net is stopping it.
Aurornis
> It's always been portrayed as "Europe so enlightened" and "guilletine goes brr"
There is a deeply sad irony in watching someone mock the left for historically inaccurate takes while simultaneously falling hook, line, and sinker for a very historically incorrect alt-right talking point about Hitler. I don’t think you realize that you have become the very thing you mock, just on the other side of the political spectrum.
matthewmacleod
I agree those shallow analysis are pointless. We can observe that the far right is also rising in the US, which isn’t too hot on vacation days or a social safety net!
I guess I’d just say that people don’t like when everything is shitty and you keep telling them it’s great, and when that happens they turn to the person who says “everything is shitty and I’ll make it great again” even though they won’t - because what have you got to lose, really?
TheOtherHobbes
Because there's been significant neoliberal policy capture which has reduced worker wealth and security.
Meanwhile anti-immigration narratives are being heavily propagandised by mainstream and social media as a wedge issue.
It's very hard to compare like for like with taxation. For example health care costs in the US are effectively privatised taxation. So are the wildly inflated utility prices that the UK has developed.
Newspaper articles debate proposed tax changes worth a couple of hundred pounds a year, while electricity costs have gone up by thousands.
alephnerd
> I've never seen it framed like this before
Because it's wrong.
Welfarism has always had strong support from the right and the left in Europe.
Bismarck himself co-opted the term "Socialism" to build the German welfare state while undermining his political opponents, and the Catholic Church supported Christian Democracy movement was always a major proponent for welfare support.
MrMcCall
So the left and the right are equivalent?
Gotcha.
tpm
In a bit more nuanced view, the pre-war (WW1) and inter-war (WW1 to WW2) both liberal and conservative parties didn't really care about either social or nationalist stuff and because of that got nearly wiped out by nationalist and socialist parties. To survive, they had to heavily borrow from both. Which they duly did after WW2 in the spectre of Hitler and Stalin.
In an even more nuanced view, Hitler was also supported by many rich people and high taxes and nationalisations served to cut their power. And in most countries, the means of propaganda was also nationalized and/or heavily regulated. So it was about much more than just the poor masses.
MrMcCall
> no amount of vacation days or social safety net is stopping it
Yeah, there's only one way to deal with people who want to violently oppress others, no matter their ilk (religious, political, ethnic, ...).
> Europe so enlightened
Yeah, if you talked with my GOP-aligned family, your appraisal of Europe would reach new dizzying heights. They're so stupid I feel bad for the word "stupid", as it's clearly inadequate as a description.
null
Poverty and the enmiseration of the poor is a policy choice.
It’s also short term beneficial for the wealthy, but long term deeply detrimental to all members of society: killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, a large, highly educated, culturally engaged population able to survive opportunity costs of taking economic risk.
A lone multibillionaire in a society of impoverished people has a deeply boring and dangerous life.
The lower your GINI coefficient, the more people can create culture, luxury, and the sorts of things the wealthy enjoy.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_economic_inequali...