Freelancing: How I found clients, part 1
123 comments
·February 24, 2025lqet
TIPSIO
I don't think there's a perfect recipe, but we have done quite well by marketing ourselves not as freelancers.
Aka, you are a small business. Aka, never do hourly and fixed cost projects only.
Too many people get caught up contract and deliverables and hour counting.
It sucks but you are a service worker essentially in a very high referral industry. Every project should be above and beyond with little push back. If it's unreasonable, everyone will know.
Know how to sell different processes to different people. Small ma and pa businesses are PITA but are also customers. Give them a different process than your big budget customers who always tend to be more easy going.
skizm
One of my favorite Matt Levine quotes is:
> Yeah I mean a general lesson here is that you want to be in the sort of business that sends one-line invoices, not the sort of business that bills by the sixth of the hour.
pinkmuffinere
Sorry for the dumb question, but can you clarify this?
> Aka, you are a small business. Aka, never do hourly and fixed cost projects only.
My reading is “never charge hourly, and never charge fixed cost”. Am I misunderstanding? What is the third alternative? Retainer + hourly? Something else?
zoogeny
I'm pretty sure the parent comment meant "never charge hourly, instead do fixed cost projects only" but the grammar is ambiguous.
One strategy I've seen used is a fixed cost for the project (delivered to spec) combined with an hourly retainer for support and changes. Sometimes there is even an explicit carve out for changes during the development so you can avoid scope creep derailing the project (and the relationship with the client).
You don't want to get into nickel and diming the client: "why did it take X hours to set up a DNS? and what is a DNS? Do we even need a DNS?" etc.
laurencerowe
It really depends on how much you want to do sales vs increasing your rates because you have a reputation for solving difficult problems.
3abiton
I am curious about how you go for time estimate when you say a flat rate. I assume if a problem is difficult, this might become tough to guage right?
lqet
I write all my tools myself, so I know exactly what I can do without any actual coding, and I know what additional features are easy to implement. I try to avoid projects which require a lot of additional new code. Then I estimate the hours and multiply by two. The risk of additional work is on me, and I was once off by a factor of around 3, but I try to only accept projects where any newly developed code will either be useful for a long-term contract with the client (which then basically consists of me running a cronjob for money), or where I know that the internal tools I have to develop will be useful for future jobs. Examples of such tools are data converters, data analysis tools, etc.
johnnyanmac
well that explains a lot. I feel like all my freelancing is making it up as I go along. But I guess I'm more of a generalist than someone you come to when you know wxactly what you want and cost isn't a barrier.
In personal respects, I'm also not sure if I can stomach that kind of pipeline myself where I'm doing more plumbing than problem solving.
fjjjrjj
I never thought of crontabs as revenue drivers until I read this.
How do you manage the crons and monitor for uptime?
gav
To paraphrase a previous employer's strategy: fixed fee projects are for ones you plan to do over and over where it makes sense to invest at getting good at them.
The first one you lose a bunch of money, the second you might break even if you are lucky, and the tenth onward you make a bunch of money.
nasmorn
Sorry but charging 110/hr for work where you are the most recognized expert in the world is hardly a business achievement. That is a third less than a random handyman will charge where I live. If your tools and data are at all business critical to a real company you are vastly undercharging
hermannj314
One of the best handyman in my area charges very little. He does a lot of volunteer work in disaster areas (after a flood or hurricane, he will travel and help rebuild communities). He told me he didn't care that much about the money. He wanted to make a modest living and he performed his trade with excellence. He wasn't a pauper, but he also wasn't running a multi-million dollar construction company.
He has a lot of friends and is well loved in his community.
What a chump.
zoogeny
This description matched one of my neighbor so closely I wondered if you were talking about him. My neighbor literally chooses to work mostly with elderly folks who are at the point of not being able to manage on their own, completely out of principle. There is enough work that he turns down 3 out of 4 requests and yet he still does these low paying odd jobs for disadvantaged people. He gleefully showed me checks that people wrote him because he thinks it is funny that people still use them instead of online payments. He told me just a couple of days ago that someone gave him a $200 tip after the work he did at their place, because he charges them under what other people quote and shows up on time and gets it done. Same thing with the volunteer work - I helped him dig trenches around an old ladies house after a flood. He does work at her place, stopped by after the flood just to check on her and then called up a bunch of people to help her out, all for free.
He's a very humble guy, almost to a fault. He could easily make a killing if he hired some guys and took on traditional clients but he refuses. It's nice to know there are many people like him out there.
nasmorn
As a principle I never give charity to businesses only to actual people.
Maybe as a handyman I could see the good I am doing in people’s lives and that would make me happy. But as a developer I mostly do tasks to make companies more money and thus I feel some of that money is the only relevant compensation.
lqet
> most recognized expert in the world
I am certainly not the most recognized expert in the world.
> If your tools and data are at all business critical to a real company you are vastly undercharging
I make around 90% of my revenue from flat rate prices. The hourly rates are an additional service. The majority of my clients pay quarterly flat rates. For the typical client, I only have to set up a generation script once, which takes around 30 minutes. I usually never touch that script again for years.
> [...] hardly a business achievement [...] That is a third less than a random handyman will charge where I live.
Sorry, but I really couldn't care less. I never actively planned to do this side gig. I got into it because people cold-contacted me and asked me for it. I very much enjoy doing it, I like the industry contacts it generates, it's only a few hours work each month, and it pays off my mortgage. It's mostly a paid fun hobby project.
stewarts
Some people get caught up in "maximization". Everything must be efficient, and use every moment of your time, and be commensurately compensated so as to profit maximally.
Your approach flies in the face of that, but you don't care! I happen to love that stance and applaud your ability to recognize the enjoyment/comfort in it. You enjoy what you do, but don't seek to attempt to make it more than it currently is.
fjjjrjj
I'd take that income for side gigs in a heartbeat. Pluse OP said hourly work is not their go-to anyway. Not sure why this deserves such harsh criticism.
The body shops that spam me for data software contract work quote well below that.
null
listenallyall
Probably 1/5 of a random attorney's hourly rate (even when the advice is generic, something you could research yourself easily, or perhaps even wrong) and 1/3 of an accountant's.
amazingamazing
seriously. even for EU that's pretty low. would need to see how much of that lower 5 digits is from the flat rate services, and how much effort and time that takes.
n4r9
A 5-figure income from side gigs is pretty substantial anywhere.
seanwilson
I've always done contracting without a resume at all, with just a few example projects, a list of services offered, and some testimonials. I've never had a client ask for a resume, they often aren't experts in the field, they appreciate being spared technical details/jargon, and just want to know that you can take care of their problem within their budget. It's very different compared to being interviewed and hired as an employee. Maybe depends on what kind of clients you're looking for but not having to worry about a resume is great.
throwing_away
How do you actually find people to prospect?
I've been trying to help a friend get started freelance coding who has super technical skills but not a lot of formal experience and education.
It's really a challenge when everything is AI and everyone assumes everything is a scam.
stevoski
> How do you actually find people to prospect?
1) Start with your personal network: Friends in similar line of work, former colleagues. Contact them and tell them what you are doing “just in case you encounter someone who I can help”.
2) Go to relevant meetups in your city (or nearest city if need be). Be ready with a pithy description of what you do.
“So what do you do?”, a conversation might go.
“I’m a freelance consultant who helps X do Y”, you’ll answer.
Usually, that’ll be followed with polite but disinterested conversation. But one critical time, it’ll be “hey we might need someone who can help with that. Can I connect on LinkedIn? Send me a message tomorrow.”
3) Be persistent. Follow up and do it regularly. Accept that time from first contact to paid work might take many months.
4) Don’t waste your time with the cold pitching. It’s hard to do well, it’s annoying to the recipients, and you’ll just be lost in the tons of cold emails that decision makers get EVERY GOD DAMN DAY. (Sorry about shouting, can you tell I get a lot of this stuff?)
One day when I have time and motivation, I’ll write up all the chance encounters, etc that led to me getting a freelance business off the ground a long time ago.
lzr_mihnea
This works for local freelancing, conditioned geographically.
I aimed to find collaborations with remote companies.
FrustratedMonky
Leads, Leads, Leads
its like Location, Location, Location in Real Estate.
Every sales organization on the planet tries to figure this out.
So, if some small individual is trying to find 'people to prospect', aka 'customers'.
Just know that even though a lot of Software Engineers that aren't great socializers/people people, are actually in the same boat. Everyone is trying to find 'leads', and it is hard for large and small companies.
Anyway. I know this was kind of a relief when I realized this. You aren't necessarily bad at it. It is hard for everyone. And there are a hundred suggestions on how, it's an entire cottage industry, 'how to find leads'.
MartijnHols
I reckon it really depends on the kind of clients you’re looking for. I’ve had clients call that just started building an app and were looking to hire their first dev. They didn’t need a resume, but also found me too expensive.
Most companies that are interested are aware of the going rates. But they want to be sure I’m as good as my marketing says - many companies have been burned before by seniors who weren’t senior - so in my experience they usually do ask for a resume and an interview just like an employee. Main difference seems to be the trust in the work I’ve done; I’ve never been asked to make an assessment. That might also be because I filter out these clients before we get to that point.
seanwilson
> many companies have been burned before by seniors who weren’t senior - so in my experience they usually do ask for a resume and an interview just like an employee.
You mean you've been asked for a resume? Never happened with me when working for small to large companies. Isn't part of it that there's more commitment to taking on an employee and employees are harder to get rid vs a contractor?
It feels more like hiring a kitchen installer or a plumber. You look at their past work and testimonials, assume they can do what they say, and maybe ask or look at what options you have if it doesn't work out in the worst case, but you wouldn't ask for a resume.
aquariusDue
As per the post roughly:
Step 1. Polish your resume
Step 2. Avoid the holidays
Step 3. Set up Calendly
Step 4. Be able to answer what it is that you do
It is truly "how" instead of "where" like I first expected. The author provided some good tips that most people omit because at first they might seem like common sense but what makes this actually good is the fact that most tips provided come with an actionable suggestion rather than an empty "do this and nevermind how". Also the gotcha about Calendly importing Facebook birthdays and booking the whole day was great.
Looking forward to part two.
lzr_mihnea
Yep, a decent summary.
Haha, my wife told me to avoid writing that part with Facebook birthdays, because no one would probably care.
Thanks for this comment!
thibaultamartin
I've found cal.com to be a more pleasant experience than calendly. The interface looks more polished, it has a ton of integrations and it works really well.
I could in theory self-host it but I'd rather use a service with a proper team to maintain it.
The free tier does everything I need. I'd be more than willing to pay ~€5/month for it to contribute to its sustainability, but there is no paying tier that makes sense to me as an individual an occasional contractor.
garrickvanburen
I'm also very big fan of cal.com.
Their URL design is great, the flexibility of their free plan is great.
And my no-show rate went from >50% to maybe 1 a month compared Calendly.
abound
I self-host Cal.com and broadly agree: it works great, has a clean look, and is super customizable.
That said, getting it running was kind of a nightmare. I forget the details, but I had to edit a few different codebases and Docker images. And just the `docker build` required a database running and the frontend build kept OOMing my computer and failing with esoteric errors when I tried Podman.
lzr_mihnea
Didn't know about this. Thank you!
Imustaskforhelp
was looking for such type of comment.
null
itake
I wish they would reveal the compensation numbers. Like its really easy to get a freelancing job if you charge $7.25/hr. But finding a freelancing opportunities that match the rates of dev shops ($200+ / hr) is much more challenging.
tonyedgecombe
One of the things that surprised me most when I started freelancing was that higher paying clients were much easier to deal with. They seemed to value my work more simply because they were paying more.
chistev
Cheap clients are the worst.
msadowski
Same experience here. I also found that if they haggle on the price at the beginning they turn out very difficult to work with.
Imustaskforhelp
I don't want to sound rude but essentially $7.25 freelancing job is really great for developing countries like india , its like 5,056.97 per day , which is crazy nuts.
My brother did freelancing before he got his job , in fact he made more money freelancing than with his job , but he personally feels a little saddened I suppose because either he doesn't feel its justified , like a company would generally ask him for work , he would build it and then they would ship it and it would crazy. In fact one of the times , IIRC (I may be wrong) but he said that he made the whole project himself and the client is making 25$ everyday for that project by literally doing nothing , I know you might think 25$ per day are cheap but in India , its the salary that people would go for a great deal at.
Othertimes he felt the hectic schedule / sometimes got clients / sometimes didn't , he hated that upwork took a lot of his money the first time a client came.
He is enjoying his newly gotten job (he has just graduated) and for now , they aren't making him do any meaningful work except settling in.
I don't know , could you even tell me how I can get a freelancing job online for 7.25$ per hour ?
itake
I've hired people part and full time in developing countries (Malaysia, India, and Vietnam).
Westerners will be very skeptical of your skills, so its very important to have a strong portfolio.
Random advice:
- Talented people tend to select other talented people to work with. So if your portfolio is ugly, because the designer was bad, then that will reflect poorly on you.
- Focus on Frontend skills (web and mobile). I think western clients prefer building backend locally, but are more comfortable outsource the frontend.
- Have a day job and be busy. I have had much better luck hiring talented devs that already have jobs than devs that are unemployed.
- If there is a mobile app in your portfolio, check the mobile app ratings in the client's app store before sharing it. Multiple people shared with me a 2-star finance app, because the very few American users gave it bad reviews due to the poor support for foreign passports or phone numbers. Its a bad look.
- Cold out reach to dev shops or other western freelancers. If you're a freelancer or dev shop, when it rains, it pours. Be on their short list when they are drowning in work, but no time to interview/hire, etc.
- Don't be too cheap. That's a red flag that you don't understand the industry or are low-skill and desperate for work. I'd ask at least $15/hr, even in lower cost countries.
sponnath
[dead]
bilsbie
I offered ten hours free once because I was bored and wanted an interesting project to work on. Zero interest.
lzr_mihnea
Hey @itake! I plan on writing about that too, around part 3.
higeorge13
> 1.1.2. And use NUMBERS when describing these sections. I can't emphasize it enough. Quantify what you've done as much as possible.
I have a couple of those in my CV and they are easily justifiable, but I sometimes feel they are not valuable at all. And they also seem a bad side effect of the AI-generated resumes and AI-driven ATS filtering algorithms which almost demand you have bullets with numbers. Does anyone feel the same?
hnthrow90348765
>Does anyone feel the same?
Before the AI era, I never really got any feedback on quantifying things. I feel like they request it but never really let it inform their decision making too deeply. It's there for an initial impression and that's it.
A recruiter that is only looking for quantified data will not reach out or explain a rejection though, so it's difficult to be objective about this.
I do C#/.NET too, which a lot of places seem to be behind on job hiring requirements compared to other ecosystems. Most wouldn't care if you had a https://codersrank.io/# resume or a Word resume.
lzr_mihnea
That's an interesting point of view, you might be on to something.
I hadn't considered that it might sound AI-generated. I guess the point is to make it quantifiable.
If that can be achieved in other ways, then why not?
I thought this would be an easy way of showing that.
higeorge13
I know, I guess my comment is driven by all the AI-resume generators.
Try a random resume and the first suggestion you get from them is "Add numbers". You add numbers and you still leave some bullet points without any, and the next suggestion is "Add missing numbers to these bullet points". So as a hiring manager I see resumes with numbers and my instant guess is that resume is generated by any of these services. :D
In general I feel the numbers are _more_ relevant if you (a) hold a senior/manager position and (b) had some actual business impact, e.g. "increased ARR from 1m to 100m as a revops manager", "grew the engineering team from 5 to 100 people as a head of engineering" and so on. Numbers like "made the api 10 times faster", "reduced ETL pipeline runtime from hours to minutes" feel almost arbitrary. You can justify them just fine, but still. But perhaps I am just biased by the AI-generated stuff, that's all.
ankit219
One thing i have seen while freelancing (on mostly marketing tasks) is how people are willing to pay a lot if you own the outcomes. The typical model is work per hour, but if you can own some outcomes you control aka drive value, many businesses would be happy to pay higher than hourly rate too. That also separates you from all the other candidates when it comes to proposals.
toldyouso2022
The problem is that the outcome, what clients want, it's often mot clear, changes, sometimes depends on other people in the client's org, etc and it's a mess to have a fixed price contract in these cases
ankit219
You can control this. You could opt for the part where the dependence on rest of the team is minimal. Or you could structure it in a tiered manner. With different pricing at different levels of outcomes.
pooya72
By own outcomes, do you me something like a percentage of sales or something?
garrickvanburen
it can be as simple as, the messiness of figuring out what to do is completely taken care of - I'll deliver you the recommendations next week.
ankit219
Not really.
It could be that "I would orient my marketing efforts to get you 1000 leads in 2 months. If I hit the target, i get x amount, else y based on the final result. You dont need the percentages. The key is to position yourself in a manner that whoever is hiring you can depend on you for results regardless of the circumstances. This way you get more recommendations, and better pay.
msadowski
I’ve been consulting for close to 7 years in robotics now, robotics being a niche field I guess it has been a bit easier for me to find clients. I never had a period without a client and never had to do cold outreach.
Here are some things I learned: * You can usually charge way more per project basis instead of charging by the hour but it’s crazy difficult to get it right for R&D projects * Most of my clients came to me through my blog * 2 years ago UpWork was surprisingly good for finding projects, these days there is lots of AI stuff coming from freelancers when they apply and I’m not so sure anymore * Discuss price as early as possible to not waste time
I wrote a series of blog posts on my journey in case anyone is interested (I’m quite sure you will find the above points there): https://msadowski.github.io/5-years-remote-robotics-consulti...
This year I might write another update to share a painful lesson on having all your eggs in one basket and not spending time on working your blog.
billy99k
"2 years ago UpWork was surprisingly good for finding projects, these days there is lots of AI stuff coming from freelancers when they apply and I’m not so sure anymore "
I get one good client on Upwork a year. 99% of the clients I've found are either unwilling to pay market rates, are subcontracting out before they actually landed the project (had lots of initial meetings and then suddenly they didn't get the project, final meeting fell through), or are trying to build up a team first, with no clients (I had 2 of these already this year).
__mharrison__
How I find clients:
Write a book.
Speak (at conferences) about what you want to consult on.
Augment above on social.
zerr
I believe that targets more or less technical clients, CTOs, etc... How do you target completely non-technical prospects?
withinboredom
It's social proof that you're an expert. You'll often get work just by being at these places in the role of a speaker, if you're looking for it. There are many people who have clients they either don't like the work from the client, or want to get help with a thing -- so they can handoff clients/work to you.
lzr_mihnea
I agree with what he's saying, it helps!
__mharrison__
We are talking about consulting right? You want to pitch technical topics to non-technical (owners presumably)?
Find a way to meet them and literally tell them that "you wrote the book on that (said subject that will... Fill in the blank)". Then hand them a copy of the book .
Folks like to work with experts (or people who are passionate enough to write a book).
zerr
I mean how should non-technical prospects find you? They don't go to such tech talks/conferences, don't read tech books. Such clients usually go to software agencies but not to individuals.
Imustaskforhelp
hmm very interesting.
So can I write a book on any technical topic or programming languages only?
Like I am / wish to be involved in some projects but they are sparsely related , maybe I can apply the pareto principle to see what is a good balance of my interests and what pays / there is demand for.
My main nut which I like to crack is breaking nat's. It drives me crazy when I can play a minecraft server on nats. But I also don't want to reveal such things because they work because I spent hours tinkering and if I tell to the world , it would take the nat owners just minutes fixing it. But still , I don't know , I was thinking of creating an article because book seems pretty heavy.
How long does the book have to be , can it be a 50 75 pages long ? or does it have to be insanely bulky like 1000 pages ?
Sorry if I sound a bit immature because I totally am. I always used to think of blogs as a way to increase my reputation but now I am thinking why not both ? the topics I am good at , can really be both blog / article and a mini book.
Should it be digital or should it be by a publisher ?
__mharrison__
Maybe start off with a blog to see if you can get traction/attention.
I created a course about technical book authoring and interviewed a dozen authors. Some made a lot of money from writing. Others less so. Those that treated it like a business seemed to make more money (from the book and related activities).
Imustaskforhelp
I think my problem is my knowledge isn't very domain specialized.
I know many tips and tricks that you might thank me for telling you about software but they are sparsely connected to each other. They are connected by my journey of software engineering and the interests I gathered along the way.
So blog might be the way to go. I am going to create my first blog now.
Imustaskforhelp
Just created my first blog because of your advice
stevage
What area are they in?
I've been freelancing for 7 years, as a primarily JS developer specialising in maps, and the landscape looks nothing like that to me. I don't have a resume, nor has anyone ever asked for one. Also, there wasn't really a "setup" phase and certainly no "marketing".
Recruiters? Is he sure he's a freelancer?
FearNotDaniel
> Recruiters? Is he sure he's a freelancer?
My experience in both UK and EU is that a heck a lot of "freelance" aka "B2B contract" style work does indeed come via recruiters. Either they charge the client an upfront "finders fee", or the invoicing goes via the recruiter who adds their margin to the monthly bill before passing it on to the end client. So yeah, perfectly valid for a freelancer to work via recruiters even if that's not your personal experience.
tonyedgecombe
Hasn’t IR35 killed that market in the UK?
FearNotDaniel
I'm no longer UK based, but from what I can observe at a distance, it's transformed the market rather than killed it. Listings for contract roles seem to be labelled either "inside" or "outside" IR35 depending on the requirements and conditions. So yes, whatever contracts are available are probably on average much less tax-favourable to the contractor than before the changeover, but whether that's affected the overall market volume I couldn't say.
billy99k
I found a recruiter that specializes in freelance/contract work in the tech industry. They negotiated my rate for me (which was 30% hire than what I was asking) and got me a very nice long-term contract (going on 7 years now).
They subcontracted me out for a year (and paid full benefits like health insurance) and after a year I started billing the company directly. I even found out what they were charging the company, reduced it by around 25% and still gave my self a 25% raise.
deskamess
That seems like a solid recruiter. Could you provide a link to their website?
darkhorse13
If you don't mind, could you tell me about this recruiter?
senordevnyc
I was a freelancer for more than a decade and I got my income to nearly a half million a year via “marketing”. YMMV.
staticautomatic
US recruiters will sometimes do C2C depending on the industry and client.
dwedge
I don't know if this just me but I always struggle to read articles or posts that use emojis as bullet points
lzr_mihnea
I enjoy some extra colour from emojis but to each his own.
alexgotoi
Curious to read the Marketing part, that’s the magic everyone wants to know
lzr_mihnea
I'm not sure it's that spicy, from my perspective, hope to deliver on it.
My 2 cents: I do a bit of freelancing on the side, with a yearly income in the lower 5 digits. I have a (very) basic website and a limited, but free data service, and I have created 2-3 opensource tools that are relatively well-known in the field. My impression is that I get most of my clients either via word-of-mouth, because they need some extension to a tool I wrote, because they want to get rid of the limits of my free data service, or because they found one of my papers by chance and need something similar. If they want a quick call, be prepared to quickly answer who you are, what you have done in the past, what you offer, how much it costs, and how long you have been doing this (large customers in particular don't like to take the risk that your business will disappear in 6 months). Write these answers down or memorize them in advance if you are not the social type. I charge flat rates for certain services, and around 110 EUR / hour for anything else. Be punctual for meetings, professional with you invoices, and answer emails quickly and to the point. Don't gossip about previous clients.