Electronic devices used for car thefts set to be banned
40 comments
·February 23, 2025_trampeltier
boredatoms
You get less for 34 felonies
MrBuddyCasino
We‘re talking about the UK here. They’ve jumped the shark long ago and are now at the „legislate blunted butter knives“ stage.
nubinetwork
Did they seriously try to call an RF transceiver a jammer?
Also you can literally "jam" anything with anything, I used to have a pair of walkie-talkies from the 70s that were designed to use (what's now used as) the CB band... is that considered a jammer now?
Symbiote
They call them "Keyless repeaters and signal amplifiers", but say people also refer to them as "jammers".
Bairfhionn
They should fine the car manufacturers for ignoring the security flaws.
ok_dad
> "These devices have no legitimate purpose, apart from assisting in criminal activity, and reducing their availability will support policing and industry in preventing vehicle theft which is damaging to both individuals and businesses."
Now I wonder what devices are going to be banned by this law that have a legitimate purpose which they actually want to ban. Will they use this law to ban SDRs or something?
rahimnathwani
This is a confusing article. I'm not sure what 'scrambling' means here:
Keyless repeaters and signal amplifiers scramble the signal from remote key fobs inside people's homes, enabling criminals to unlock cars.
gambiting
You can sit around a car park with a jammer and jam the signal as people walk away from their cars - some people don't notice that their attempt to lock the car just didn't do anything.
zh3
Some of this is aimed at remote keyless operation, where all you need is the key in your pocket to unlock, start and drive the car. So by using a receiver close to the key connected to a powerful transmitter, you can pick up the signal from the key inside the house, boost it and send it to the car - then get in and drive away. No 'scrambling' involved (though I understand some cars are very easy to hack with replay attacks, notoriously Range Rovers and others from JLR).
Maskawanian
Yes, it would stop somebody's key from working, and that's the entire point, because most key fobs work on rolling ciphers, and if you block one, you can reuse it. Typically the fob will allow like 10 or so presses. It depends on the model before you're forced to re pair to the car. But by jamming it and capturing what it sent, you can then use that to get into the car.
superkuh
The jammer prevents the car from hearing the transmitted un/locking signals while the jammer themselves collects and repeats it later.
De_Delph
That, or to prevent the tracker in more expensive cars from doing their job. In mainland Europe, some high end cars need to be fitted with a GPS tracker for insurance. Thieves will try to jam GPS to those trackers until they're: A) figured out how to disable/remove it, B) fled the country.
IndrekR
Not just high end and insurance. In EU 100% of new cars have GPS installed. This is used for intelligent speed assist and eCall that are now mandatory.
rahimnathwani
It seems challenging to jam a transmission from being received, whilst capturing that same transmission.
function_seven
If you place a device with a high-gain directional receiver pointed toward the fob, and a high-power transmitter pointed toward the car, wouldn’t that work?
null
kleiba
I'm always amused when law makers try to fight crime by making new laws. Because that affects exactly everybody except criminals who - by definition - don't care about laws.
patmcc
Oh, thank goodness, they're finally banning these evil devices.
Hopefully they'll move on to bobby pins, coat hangers, screwdrivers, and hammers next.
mihaaly
I feel it a bit ironic arguing about "devastating effect on victims, who need their vehicles to go about their everyday lives" while the lock of homes including brand new ones are from the last century, somehow not the same worry about the place where people live. And in a car based society - more like forced outside of London which has usable public transportation - made itself so vulnarable to the use of cars for basic necessities like going to work and shopping, yet the practices and public infrastructure (parking in traffic lane, blocking traffic for safety, damaging neglected potholes) are making it worse like car theft. Seems like very selective worries from a theatrical public figure.
parineum
Or they are just exaggerating the consequences so they can pass a silly law that let's them say they did something next time they run for office.
bell-cot
It'd be lovely if there were also penalties for the firms which sell those vulnerable cars, so easily stolen if you have one of the now-banned little gadgets.
Oh well. I'm sure the problem will clear up, once all the crooks have dutifully handed their little gadgets over to the coppers.
chrisjj
Interestingly this law does not require such a handover.
"the onus will be on someone in possession of a device to show they had it for a legitimate purpose."
"Making or selling a signal jammer could lead to up to five years in prison or an unlimited fine."
sandworm101
I saw an ad recently for a car (Kia?) with a phone app that could sent an unlock/start code to someone else's phone. It was so you could lend your car to a friend without all the hassle of physical keys. What could possibly go wrong?
seanmcdirmid
This is using NFC, which is impossible to intercept. So only the person you send the key to can unlock and start your car with their phone, and you need to hack their phone to steal the key, which I believe is impossible given the way that Apple implements it (you need to steal their phone and know their passcode to use the key unless they set it in express, and even then the phone has to be unlocked within a certain time period to actually start the car).
snailmailstare
Assuming your friend has Internet access nothing could really go wrong. If you forget to send them the code they can just watch a short video.
this-is-sad
Why won't they ban stealing cars... oh, wait, it's already banned and thieves don't seem to care. Maybe banning people from building such devices will be as pointless as banning stealing?
Neil44
I guess the point is that just having one of these will now be a complete crime and you don't need to catch someone in the a act to prosecute.
slt2021
regular key must be replaced with mobile phone based key, because it is more secure
superkuh
So this is a change from the status quo where actually transmitting an interfering signal is illegal to one where having a device that might theoretically transmit an interfering signal is illegal? It sounds like ordering all pencils be made illegal because they can be used to write threats.
I can see why they might want to make this change but I can't see how it can feasibly be defined and enforced without making every LC oscillator illegal. But like most legislation I suppose the reality, and reality of enforcement, don't matter so much as having the law to point to. They'll ignore it most of the time but chose to enforce it arbitrarily if someone rocks the boat. And it's quite a bit of a performative, "We're doing something." move.
>"These devices have no legitimate purpose, apart from assisting in criminal activity...
Expecting street cops to know RF electronics deeply enough to make these judgements of a "legitimate purpose" is beyond foolhardy and the claims of generalized signal generators as having no legitimate purpose is false. They would certainly consider my amateur radio lab equipment to be illegal.
HeatrayEnjoyer
Radio equipment restrictions are as old as radio itself. Go into cellular telecommunication or, god forbid, radar, and you will find a great number of things you are not allowed to possess or sell, with very severe punishments for violation.
zmgsabst
Like what?
BiteCode_dev
Ah, those law abiding thieves will surely stop procuring themselves those devices now that they are illegal.
FabHK
It will reduce supply, but it will also make it easier to prosecute those that have these devices.
I frankly don't understand the sentiment. Should we not outlaw murder because "ha, surely criminals won't murder anymore now"?
mirzap
Stealing is already outlawed, so banning the devices is not comparable to murder. What would be comparable if the government decided to ban knives and hammers? Those "devices" are used to commit murders, and anyone possessing them could be prosecuted for the crime of murder.
vbezhenar
We should not outlaw tools. Lock picks are fun and some ordinary people have a hobby of lock picking. You shouldn't go to jail because you possess a lock pick. Electronic devices are the same.
It's dangerously close to the "thought crime".
In the IT world that would mean going to jail if you have John the Ripper installed.
BiteCode_dev
Then you should outlaw knife, all cleaning chemical, hammers, amateur radio...
But not guns. They are fine.
parineum
Murder and stealing are the the things that are outlawed already.
The equivalent argument would be banning knives so people don't commit murder.
seanmcdirmid
The equivalent argument would be banning something that makes murder really really easy without much training or willpower. Killing with a knife is hard, and just not very accessible (if you doubt me, try going hunting for deer with a knife instead of a rifle). The equivalent would be some device that made killing really easy, eg something that supported point and shoot. Like, if someone invented a ray gun that you could just point at people and they would die, that would banned really quickly even by the most libertarian governments (because society doesn’t survive very long with them around, or society doesn’t ban them and is just replaced by another society that does).
Lock picks at least take some skill, they aren’t super accessible. But an RF repeater seems to be fairly accessible according to how quickly it spread (although most modern fobs stop transmitting when stationary, so these are only effective for people who carry fobs in their pockets all the time).
"Making or selling a signal jammer could lead to up to five years in prison or an unlimited fine."
I can understand you like to make some devices illegal. But really, five years prison, unlimited fine. Is everybody insane now.