US Space Force reveals first look at secretive X-37B space plane in orbit
108 comments
·February 22, 2025unsnap_biceps
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davidw
I can't be the only one who, when I read "space force" hears a deep, reverb-heavy, Buck Rogers kind of voice going "spaaaaaaaace foooooooorce"
dylan604
You say Buck Rogers, but I hear the Muppets with Piiiigs in Spaaaaace!!
walrus01
a pretty good satire of the whole thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Force_(TV_series)
bagels
Space Force song written just after the announcement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AUXpnB065o
cantagi
schmoyoho are incredible at making these songs, and so quickly after each event. I'm amazed they usually only get 10s of thousands of views, with the odd exception over 1m.
Rebelgecko
The show has basically 0 relation to what the Space Force actually does
metadat
Why might it be desirable to have an observation craft so far away from the earth?
I'm having a hard time imagining the advantage compared to being a bit closer, unless it's a more energy-efficient parking situation while the vehicle isn't in active use.
SkyPuncher
My understanding is it’s on an offset elliptical orbit. This is essentially the farthest point away from earth with the other end of orbit being very close to Earth.
From a tactical perspective, that means this can interact with basically any other satellite.
samplatt
With a far point so far away from Earth it also means that it requires only tiny amounts of fuel for major orbit changes.
justahuman74
My orbital mechanics is (like most people) weak, is this intended as a generalized physical threat to other satellites?
dredmorbius
As well as change orbital characteristics (apogee, perigee, inclination) at reasonably low cost, enabling closer observation of specific portions of Earth, or of objects in space.
Burns at closest approach (perigee) have the largest influence on total orbital characteristics. Burns at furthest approach (apogee) can raise the entire orbit if desired.
(Or so I understand.)
exDM69
Burns at perigee have best efficiency to make in-plane changes (raise or lower orbit) due to the Oberth effect.
Burns at apogee have best efficiency for out-of-plane maneuvers (change orbital inclination plane) due to lowest velocity of the spacecraft.
Highly elliptical orbits can do both at a few hours' notice.
Robelius
Could another benefit be the ability to change payloads? If there was a desire to change the orbits and payloads, then could these serve a function as a more responsive version of existing satellites?
kjkjadksj
Past flights have been years long and are classified what might have even been achieved. I wonder how much of the space war doesn’t ever get published?
DoingIsLearning
Interact as in fly-by repair? Or interact as in interfere/tamper/destroy?
NikkiA
Yes, also steal ala Glomar Explorer
jl6
Looks like it would be able to deploy high speed instant-action repair kits.
bagels
One use for highly elliptical orbits is being able to linger over some part of the earth for longer periods.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molniya_orbit
I haven't seen the orbital parameters of the X-37, so it may be in an elliptical orbit for some other reason, such as spying on or interfering with geostationary satellites or who knows what else.
dylan604
This thing is definitely out of SAM range, so that's an advantage.
rich_sasha
I was going to say, not out of range of anti-satellite missiles, at least at a low perigee... But maybe it's zipping too fast there to be easily shot down? Whereas at apogee, when it's slow, it's also very far away.
credit_guy
> But maybe it's zipping too fast there to be easily shot down?
A satellite in LEO already has a speed of about 8 km/s. The highest speed of a satellite in a highly elliptical orbit is 11 km/s. It you can shoot a satellite at 8 km/s, you probably can also shoot it at 11 km/s.
The problem is, of course, that the perigee of a satellite in a highly elliptical orbit can be over a different part of the planet than your SAM battery.
tehbeard
Possibly easier for optics?
Lower orbit = faster velocity.
So your screaming by over Emutopia's enrichment plant, and trying to take photos.
Telephotography might be an easier solve than faster image capture for the same resolution and clarity. A higher orbit means you have to do less drastic tracking corrections to observe the same area while over it.
Alternative: it's a space plane and has been mentioned it uses aero braking for orbital adjustments. A highly elliptical orbit imparts a significant chunk of potential energy that can be expended for orbital changes using aero braking instead of needing to expend limited propellent.
Source: personal experience with several hundred hours of KSP.
tbihl
I assume better survivability against anti-satellite weapons.
tonyhart7
"Why might it be desirable to have an observation craft so far away from the earth?"
more range the merrier in case there is alien invasion. you would need aircraft that allow travel interplanetary system
prpl
maybe observing satellites, in real time, in multiple orbits, and yeah, maybe just free parking (and testing orbital transitions).
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nxobject
Given the military heritage of the Space Shuttle, I imagine this is what a hypothetical next generation civilian Space Shuttle might have looked like, too.
dredmorbius
Given the constraints of reaching orbit, surviving reentry, and cross-range capabilities there's a general lack of variability in spacecraft design. Some of us are old enough to remember promotional/propaganda materials concerning the original Boeing X-20 "Dyna-Soar" engineering designs from the 1950s which strongly resemble the subsequent US Space Shuttle, the Soviet Buran orbiter, and the Boeing X-37B and X-40:
euroderf
I recall reading that the Space Shuttle was a big improvement on Dynasoar. Perhaps that the Dynasoar was not a true "lifting body" ?
dredmorbius
FYI I'm not familiar with this nor could I find anything. If you could surface a reference I'd be interested in details.
bagels
How big is the payload bay on this thing? The whole craft is only 29 feet long, so it's not carrying a Hubble in to orbit.
dylan604
The NRO doesn't need this thing to lift its birds into orbit. Keyhole satellites have gotten rides on Deltas and Titans, so probably going to be sticking their thumbs out in the direction of SpaceX pretty soon.
Earw0rm
Already have, SpaceX have been doing a few NRO launches. Delta and Titan are retired, and Atlas is down to its last few.
justinator
Are there any books to read that talk about the military missions of the Space Shuttle?
blankx32
Most missions are still classified but some information on general shuttle sources, into the black book and space above us podcast are interesting sources.
acomjean
The wings say USAF, which is Air Force. Though clearly in space…
moandcompany
The US Space Force was part of the US Air Force until just a few years ago, and a around 75 years ago the US Air Force was the US Army Air Corps.
Rebelgecko
I think it still belongs to the Air Force RCO
brylie
How does it have enough Delta-V to get into that distant of an orbit? Is it able to maneuver to different orbits and inclination? Is it able to return to earth? Or, is it more of a satellite than a “plane”? This is my first time learning about this space plane, so apologies if my questions are naive.
appointment
This flight was launched with a Falcon Heavy, that is why it has more energy to reach high orbit than the previous launches with an Atlas V booster.
When you are in a highly eccentric orbit (meaning the point in the orbit farthest from Earth (apogee) is much higher than the lowest point (perigee)) like this one there are several maneuvers you can do to significantly change your orbit with relatively little energy. The article describes some of the things they are testing.
A small breaking burn at apogee will lower the perigee into the upper atmosphere and they can then do aerobreaking (use atmospheric drag to lose energy) to slow down enough to land.
brylie
Thanks for the great response! It's been a while since I played KSP, and I completely forgot about the apoapsis maneuvers :-)
As an aside, it's sad about KSP2. We need a good, open-source space simulator in the spirit of KSP, which has incredible enthusiasm in the modding community.
xattt
I can imagine there are folks that do their day job at the Space Force and come home to load up KSP to blow off some steam.
DocTomoe
It has been to space several times, and there are photos and videos of it returning, shuttle-style on a runway.
By carefully timing boosting burns at different points in the orbit, you can change the orbit to become highly inclined - go prograde at the periapsis, and your raise the apogee.
From the image, I guess they are in a Molniar orbit [1].
brylie
Wow, thanks for sharing! I've never heard of Molniya orbit. Very interesting indeed.
15155
By using an Atlas V booster.
ch33zer
Interestingly since Space Force was created by Trump who sees it as a prestige project and it depends on Musk's SpaceX for launches this is probably one of the most secure agencies in the current administration.
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tonyhart7
cant wait for space marine branch
euroderf
Service guarantees citizenship! -Starship Troopers
lahcim2000
How far from earth are they to took that picture?
bagels
Pretty far. In LEO it's hard to see much of Earth in one shot since you're still so close.
https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_sdat/x-37.htm
This source indicates an 38,000 km apogee, which is is about 1/10 the distance to the moon, and just barely beyond geostationary.
hindsightbias
When even your secret programs have to do marketing. Don’t cancel me bro!
mitthrowaway2
In the book Skunk Works, Ben Rich laments that Lockheed was often passed over for contracts and missions because their achievements were so classified that the various branches of the military didn't know that things like stealth technology were possible, let alone already in production. Sometimes weren't even invited to bid on projects to develop technology that they'd already developed.
Marketing of secret projects is a tricky business!
justahuman74
Was it Lockheed who simply ran a regular marketing campaign for NGAD and then later scrubbed references to it
baranul
That's exactly what I was thinking too. With all the chainsaws on display and rumors of deep cuts, makes sense for them to explain a bit to regulars about why they exist and how well things are going.
fernandopj
one would be excused to think you made this account just for the sake of aptronym and comment, but alas, 3k+ karma
bryant
In fairness, it's an insightful comment. The behavior of plenty of agencies is likely to be erratic or at the very least novel in the current climate.
Ars previously covered some additional information on the X-37B
https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/10/the-us-militarys-x-37b...