Protoclone: Bipedal, musculoskeletal Android
45 comments
·February 19, 2025quanto
semi-extrinsic
I can imagine the noise coming out of a 500w air pump has to be quite something. Imagine having a vacuum cleaner running at random intervals 24/7.
culopatin
And beyond that, what does maintenance look like? A few fibers get, is it done? Is it modular?
Joel_Mckay
Indeed, the valve/line/pump mass will greatly dominate design cost.
The reason no one uses pneumatic actuators for repeatable positioning systems is gas is compressible, adiabatic thermal problems, and dangers when something fails.
Never saw automatons as particularly practical either, as the motion control planner balloons in complexity. Makes creepy looking sculptures though... =3
Xmd5a
>repeatable positioning systems
Typical in CNC, but is it really useful in closed-loop systems that use computer vision to adjust to an uncontrolled environment ? I've been wondering if I could reproduce something like mobile aloha but with sg90 servos instead of expansive dynamixel servos (in this case, I'm not looking at applications that require torque obviously).
quanto
Your intuition is quite correct that closed-loop means open-loop repeatability is not critical, but controlability (non-stickness, smallest possible controlled movement) still matters. Motors are well behaved and continuous, so even with some backlashes, you will be fine. There are also ways to compensate for backlashes from software (e.g. same approach angle for end effector).
Aloha is a fascinating project and would love to hear more about what you are thinking. Dynamixel indeed is too expensive
Joel_Mckay
In general, remote operated equipment still suffers latency, and thus visual servoing doesn't work well even in ideal controlled lighting conditions.
One of the lowest-cost commercial UR5 options with force-feedback is usually packaged with a traditional turtle-bot research platform. These are safer to use around people without a cage, as you can set impact safety thresholds:
https://www.universal-robots.com/products/ur5e/
https://github.com/UniversalRobots/Universal_Robots_ROS_Driv...
The hardware is a solved problem, and there are 3D printed 5-axis and 7-axis community kits around too.
Have fun =3
viraptor
It looks fun, but I'm still amazed by companies trying to create humanoid robots. I mean, any automation, factory improvement, transportation, etc. will be achieved with fewer issues and easier maintenance by purpose built robots. Alternatively by something simple but adaptable (like mounted or mobile arms with different attachments). Unless they're building a sexbot or art... who exactly is the target here?
(I get that there's a potential military use, but getting to that stage will likely take over a decade and you could build a thousand different things that can be sold/used today instead)
djokkataja
It looks like it's supposed to be a general purpose robot servant, although "Follows you around" from the list of skills on the pre-order page is hilariously disturbing. There would be a market for people willing to pay for a very humanlike robot, for the novelty if nothing else.
Plus if you want to make a robot which can do everything a human can do, without exception, you'll start running into weird edge cases if you make it with a fixed wheeled base. Like suppose you want it to climb a ladder or turn sideways to slip into a narrow space and retrieve something. Or maybe you want it to be able to climb in and out of vehicles designed for human occupants. Would you want to have to buy a special vehicle to bring your robot somewhere with you?
And judging by the name of the company and that they likely aspire towards more than what they've made so far, I'd guess that a long-term goal could be to also make something for people who realize the weakness of their flesh and crave the strength and certainty of steel.
mattlondon
Your house, your car, your dishwasher, you washing machine (and everything else in your kitchen and laundry), your medicine bottle/syringes/etc etc are all designed for humans.
Factories are not the target market, in-home use is. Imagine if you could buy a robot that was a chef a cleaner a gardener a butler a security guards and a carer for the price of a family car. It would sell like crazy. Every household would want one.
Ignoring the weirdness-factor it would be an amazing quality of life improvement if you had a tireless robot that could basically do all your day to day chores for you.
anonzzzies
Seems a dog or spider robot with 2 human arms on it's body (why would it need a head?) is much better really.
imtringued
Those exist and they tend to work really well.
HnUser12
If the goal is to commoditize, does it not make sense to have a humanoid that you can sell to individual households? Not everyone would want to have a purpose-built robot arm in their kitchen. But this may be an easier sell if it works well.
viraptor
What's the point of a humanoid in that case? Light frame on rollers would be much safer. There are rolling designs that can deal with stairs too. Humanoids waste lots of energy just balancing themselves and use precise adjustments (toes do quite a bit of work here). And if they fail at balancing, you've got tens to hundreds kilograms of equipment falling through a wall / on your possessions / on somebody. Equipment that may decide to start getting up in that situation and cause more issues...
conductr
I think the point is your humanoid is effectively as capable as you. If that was the only job worth solving, purpose built makes sense, but a general human form can (in theory) serve any purpose which is kind of the holy grail.
I don’t need to buy a roomba or the lawnmower version or hire a pool service or cleaning service, etc. if this one device can do it all. That makes this problem space extremely valuable. And the human form is a known form that can do all these things.
Even the things like food delivery robots, and food delivery fees of all types, grocery store pickers, some gig workers, etc. they kind of go away if I can tell this humanoid to run to McDonald’s and get me a #2
loanedempathy
Using humanoid robots means you get to reuse human tools and workflows, and use teleoperation (and training) until your AI catches up.
viraptor
Why would you want to use human tools? Human tools exist because of how we work. If you're building a robot, it's extremely easier to give it a functionally equivalent attachment instead. (rather than a functionality equivalent arm with enough fine-grained pressure feedback to be able to reliably grab things)
Teleoperation works great on purpose built robots too - for example https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20140516-i-operate-on-peo...
Or phrased a different way, what environment are you thinking of where a fully generalised highly advanced humanoid robot and its maintenance is more cost effective than diying or airshipping a specialised handle?
ulrikrasmussen
Assuming the cost of the droid is low enough, I think the use-case is to have it do ad-hoc tasks using the tools you have at hand right now, without the need to invest in an expensive specialized tool which only the robot can use. The idea is not efficiency but versatility.
jayd16
Well I don't know that I quite buy it myself but if you want the thing to work along side humans you can't just put special handles in everything.
If you want a robot to pour you coffee from a coffee maker humans also use, how do you imagine that working?
thomasfedb
Probably because we have quite a lot of human tools already.
loanedempathy
To be glib: you're not competing with KUKA, you're competing with the parking lot at Home Depot.
The market here isn't competing with toolmakers, it's competing with temp agencies.
ekianjo
Because all these tools already exist and require zero research.
dyauspitr
We already have purpose built and it’s not enough. The world is built around the human form so if a human can do it an android can.
Kostic
If there's potential military use and you don't build it, you risk your adversary doing that.
ekianjo
The world is a human interface. Instead of building robots for every specific task out there, this approach mimics the interface so that robots can replicate what humans are expected to do.
rck
They're claiming some revolutionary "synthetic muscle," but is there video of one of these things walking? If it's just pneumatics then this is a repeat of the early androids out of Japan, which looked cool but never got up and moved - they were basically just impressive animatronic dolls. My guess is that this ends up being something similar.
anonzzzies
Check the arm/hand videos; it shows what they are testing ; unless they completely changed everything since that video, it's just a bucketload of rubber (pneumatic) tubes.
rbanffy
"Straight out of science fiction"
Looks a lot like Westworld, and the series doesn't end well for humans.
bigbones
More like straight out of a 1992 era build of POV-Ray 3D
anonzzzies
> and the series doesn't end well for humans.
If this Protoclone is the thing to go by, we have nothing to fear for a long time.
h4ck_th3_pl4n3t
It's like they watched Westworld and didn't get the message. Like, at all.
ilaksh
The company actually copied their logo from WestWorld.
codr7
Yeah, NEVER allow it to sleep/dream.
0_____0
Hm. I don't think this is an actual thing but perhaps an art project? Would be interested to be proven wrong.
Edit: I think they made a hand like thing and are very very deeply stretching to generate interest and investment in the idea they're showcasing here
anigbrowl
I also thought it was an art project, but they've previously put out footage of a torso with a mostly empty abdomen which looked about as real. That is, it might of course be CG but if so they're making it look less good over time, which seems unlikely. (They put footage on X periodically but it all looks janky).
I've been interested in artificial muscles for a long time and thought it was a more feasible path to go down than the 'industrial/mechanical' style, so this project looks quite interesting. But of course there's no way to tell if it's any way functional or just animatronics.
oxqbldpxo
Amazing!!! This one... I would buy one. Can't find any specs on battery life.
anonzzzies
If it even has a battery, it will be horrendous. The most expensive purpose built robots with large battery cases have horrible battery life; this has far less space, so it will be measured in minutes. Battery life is why we won't have nice robots any time remotely soon unless there is an actual (not the yearly bla is coming and then it isn't) revolutionary step in battery tech. And there is just no sign of that.
ninetyninenine
Looks like bullshit. This is a prank.
ge96
Got me actin sus, a thicc robot finally the time has come
This is so random too 279? What why
So easy to making a landing page and some graphics nowadays
There's a funny little startup thing guy sticks a glowing tab thing on his temple and it appears like it's mind control or something but it's just a mic/cam data remote processor like Humane
Their video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7dhwFcuUn0
Taken at face value, it is a very cool project. With pneumatic muscles, the biggest challenge is actually not strength but control. Fine strength/distance control is difficult. Pneumatic muscles are more for bang-bang control (on/off). The company seems to address this issue by having many "myofibers" and recruiting the fibers one by one. However, in the video, the movement is still very jerky. My limbic robots were very jerky too.
Nevertheless, very cool. The claimed 500w pump, if really done, is quite a feat. Assuming 80% efficiency, 400w output for muscles would put the robot on par with a competitive cyclist activating quadriceps, the largest muscles in the body.