HP Acquires Humane's AI Software
281 comments
·February 18, 2025pityJuke
latexr
Direct link to the FAQ entry:
https://support.humane.com/hc/en-us/articles/34243204841997-...
I like that it says “battery level, etc”. I’d really like to see the full list of features.
ceejayoz
I think it might be the list.
pedalpete
if it is doing battery level, I guess it is also doing power on, and leds. It doesn't say it does charging anymore, so maybe it does battery level until it goes to 0?
latexr
I think so too. Which only makes me want to see it even more. An admission that there is nothing else.
wiredfool
Pretty sure it will let you buy a new ink cartridge too.
ceejayoz
It’s like the Rick and Morty bit about the butter bot.
“What is my purpose?”
“You say your battery level.”
“Oh my God.”
jordanb
At least the butter bot does something useful. This is more like a machine who's only function is to turn itself off.
aitchnyu
I interviewed with more than one corp chatbot maker and punchline would be "You answer leave policy questions".
epcoa
At least the butter bot has some utility to someone.
unsupp0rted
That's emblematic of their entire business arc.
"What's the most pointless matter-of-fact thing we could say/do in any given situation, just for the sake of the checkmark of having said/done it?"
necubi
> Device Timeline: Your Ai Pin will continue to function normally until 12pm PST on February 28, 2025. After this date, it will no longer connect to Humane’s servers, and .Center access will be fully retired.
> Device Features: Your Ai Pin features will no longer include calling, messaging, Ai queries/responses, or cloud access.
For a $700 device that was on the market for less than a year, that is a not a stellar way to treat your customers. Fortunately it seems there were very few of those.
[0] https://support.humane.com/hc/en-us/articles/34374173951373-...
madeofpalk
What customers?
> Humane’s daily returns are outpacing sales
https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/7/24211339/humane-ai-pin-mor...
jeffwask
And the results here are exactly why I will never be an early adopter of a $700 AI gadget
addicted
A $700 gadget that has significant offline functionality may still be ok.
One that’s dependent on the company’s servers to operate? Almost no f’ing way.
calmbonsai
[flagged]
crowcroft
Do they have a history of lying? I follow their reporting, and have generally found them reliable.
wepple
> We understand this transition may be difficult
You have to be a right knob to describe this as a “transition”
InsideOutSanta
Death is a transition, I guess.
trhway
it looks like the company was already "transitioning" - $116M for 200 people in AI, and that nowdays when an NVDA or PLTR employee is $70M+ each. It looks like they were trying and failed to get $750M-$1B just half a year ago, and even that would normally be a bargain for 200 people.
coffeebeqn
It sounds like they just bought a bunch of patents. I’m not sure they would keep the acquihires from such a… successful product
msephton
Where is the 200 figure from?
llaolleh
Not a humane way to treat your customers…
latexr
> $700
Plus monthly subscription.
mrtksn
I have this regulation idea:
If the hardware requires software that is not available for self service, then the customer is entitled for full refund at any time.
In other words if the hardware is just an accessory for providing service through software then the money the user pays for the hardware should be considered a refundable deposit.
saulpw
You should propose it! I hear the CFPB is looking for new ways to protect consumers.
slantedview
Unfortunately the CFPB is in the process of being eliminated.
walterbell
Doesn't the FTC regulate vendor-advertised claims about product behavior?
latexr
Sounds like a good intention with bad consequences. It would incentivise operating systems to become subscriptions too. Plus, it would never happen. If a company goes bankrupt they can’t buy back the devices.
I’d rather they were forced to release their software to the public, making it a requirement without which bankruptcy or sales would be refused by regulatory agencies. That way hobbyists could still get them to work, perhaps even launch a new company to revive the old devices (reducing e-waste). Additionally, we could detect if they had been doing anything shady with the data.
kjellsbells
That might also have bad consequences (not because the idea is bad, but because corps will try to route around it). It'll start with pieces of the software not being able to be released because they were licensed from a third party, and end with software development teams being organized into contract shops that own the code and thus (oh! How sad!) are regrettably unable to supply any code after the bankruptcy of the main entity. Would need very careful rules from regulators to try and anticipate tricks like this.
jeffwask
> If a company goes bankrupt they can’t buy back the devices.
Yes, but in this specific scenario the purchasing entity is far from bankrupt at least financially.
anonzzzies
That is far better; this 'blahblah' that, after bankruptcy legal reasons prevent from passing out the source should not be allowed as excuse.
mrtksn
I think going bankrupt can be grounds for making the software open source or at least free to make the users whole. Think of it like a liability, when bankrupt the stakeholders can choose to refund customers or make the software available - whichever suits them.
nashashmi
Then the hardware is not a purchase, but a lease (without time limits). And the vendor would have to refund lease payment if it stops working.
If you want to go the other way, a hardware that requires a paid service should be jail-breakable. If the designated service stops working, then the service should be open-sourced. (We would love this on HN but just imagine the OpenSource overload engineers like us would be overwhelmed with to the point no one would try.)
tbrownaw
> If the hardware requires software that is not available for self service, then the customer is entitled for full refund at any time.
If a service it depends on goes away within X years (5? 10?) you're owed a prorated refund.
avalys
Why is this regulation necessary? You can just choose not to buy products whose future you’re skeptical of.
In this case, Humane would likely go bankrupt rather than pay out the refunds your regulation would require, so it would still be ineffective in protecting consumers.
askonomm
Why have regulations at all then? Why regulate water purity when you can choose to not drink water you're skeptical of, or why regulate food if you can just not eat food that you're skeptical of? Regulations are there not for you, who perhaps knows better, but there for the people who do not. Most people are not tech-savvy. Most people believe whatever marketing is being shoved down their throat.
An average person does not do or know how to do the due diligence of product validation, and I'd argue even the tech-savvy of us are unable to figure out if a product is going to stick around or not since what info is being given to us for analysis is limited, and heavily watered down.
tbrownaw
> You can just choose not to buy products whose future you’re skeptical of.
I had a meeting last week whose sole purpose was for me to re-describe something a couple times which I had already described in text. And which also could be found in vendor documentation.
I also know someone who seems to think that (almost?) anything pushed on the Internet must be true.
rsynnott
In this particular case, this is true, and in any case approximately nobody bought these, but it's not uncommon for large, well-capitalised companies to nuke products when convenient (Google likes doing this, say).
mrtksn
Understanding how products works and what are the risks requires a study. It’s not realistic that a layman will study and understand the implications of the architecture of the product.
This regulation will transfer that requirement from the consumer to the maker so that the maker can choose to create products they issue full refund when they can’t guarantee perpetual software availability or they can choose to make all the software available with the product. It also avoids dictating how the product should be designed when doing all that.
outside1234
Oligarchs will say no
ceejayoz
The Verge on this:
https://www.theverge.com/news/614883/humane-ai-hp-acquisitio...
> After the shutdown, offline features like “battery level” will still work, Humane says, but “any function that requires cloud connectivity like voice interactions, AI responses, and .Center access” will not.
I'd really like to know if the Humane PR flack typed that with a straight face.
watusername
The charitable interpretation is that they wanted to assure buyers that they would still be able to show off the laser projector to their friends :)
But no, I wouldn't be able to write that sentence myself without wanting to find the closest hole to hide out of embarrassment.
tough
ChatGPT can!
Mistletoe
"Battery levels are fine. Jump on in!"
whyenot
My prediction is that HP will make some half-hearted attempts to do something with it for a while, and then will sell it at a loss to LG. LG will use it in one or two of their smart TVs and then release it as open source, at which point it will be forgotten. (ref: WebOS)
kylehotchkiss
Ugh smart TVs powered by Humane by HP x LG makes me want to throw all my electronics into a volcano
cancerhacker
imagine an ai tv that was given the prompt to continuously encourage viewers to sign up for LG/HP instant pixel delivery service and that it should be noted that many viewers feel great satisfaction with the service, and are frequently considered the most attractive people within your area.
plagiarist
This sounds like a robot character in a sci-fi novel, but the reality would actually be tedious.
Rebelgecko
If it's functional, I'd love to use a laser projection on my couch when I misplace my TV remote. Especially if it's able to adapt to my TV's current context
MBCook
Given the reviews of the humane pin I wouldn’t hold my breath.
throw16180339
I think I'd prefer to just go live in a cave.
lelandfe
A voice booms, “these allegorical shadows brought to you by Mountain Dew”
wepple
Ugh smart… makes me want to throw all my electronics into a volcano
But yeah what you said is way worse
internet2000
For what it's worth LG stuck with WebOS. https://www.lg.com/us/webos
The LG version never looked like anything Palm/HP put out, which makes me wonder what LG actually bought, but it's still around.
ndiddy
> Humane’s AI platform Cosmos, backed by an incredible group of engineers, will help us create an intelligent ecosystem across all HP devices from AI PCs to smart printers and connected conference rooms. This will unlock new levels of functionality for our customers and deliver on the promises of AI.
I can't wait for an HP AI printer
DamnableNook
“It looks like you are printing out a document that our AI detected ans urgent. Please subscribe to our Urgent Document print plan for $30/month (billed centennially) to re-enable printing.”
Angostura
WebOS in the TVs is still going isn't it't? I have a TV that uses it, and it's great
hu3
WebOS is great and LG promises at least 5 years of updates.
Their smart magic control is best in class too.
h1fra
WebOS is far more superior than android tv
pedalpete
Is this the playbook they followed for Palm? I can't remember who ended up with it in the end. But at least Palm had a decent operating system.
chipotle_coyote
So if I'm reading this right, every single customer of Humane is going to have their device bricked in ten days? Wow, I bet both of them are going to be seriously pissed!
fblp
These would have also been terms that HP agreed to or even proposed. It's also a taint on their brand that they're not willing to take care of Humane's customers with even a refund for recent customers in a 116mil transaction..
peanuty1
And no refunds for purchases made before Nov 15, 2024.
MBCook
If you bought one anytime after the initial reviews just what were you doing?
I just can’t imagine there was anyone who both knew it existed and didn’t know it was garbage.
The only reason I can see anyone having bought one at that point is because they wanted to own an interesting little failure in gadget history. And even then just buy one used, there was no point in spending $700.
rurp
I recall seeing a glowing article in Axios about the product and I wouldn't be surprised if there were similar posts in other publications. I was pretty skeptical for obvious reasons and expect most people were, but some people will uncritically believe what they read, especially about the hot business topic of the moment.
Getting such articles written in the first place shows some level of business connections. I don't like that people will throw so much money away on hype, especially when so many useful products languish, but it's the world we live in.
throwaway48476
Some people collect failures.
addaon
> And no refunds for purchases made before Nov 15, 2024.
For those with premium credit cards, this is why I suggest always putting electronics on that card. In my experience, the extended warranty coverage kicks in if and when the original merchant is unwilling or unable to cover their initial warranty (as well as for 12 months thereafter); this is clearly a violation of fitness for purpose, so I'd expect zero issue in getting this refunded by the CC folk.
rsynnott
HP, noted compulsive buyer of complete junk, in buying complete junk shocker (see Autonomy, Palm, etc).
dcreater
Palm was the opposite of complete junk. WebOS was absolutely ahead of its time back then and the pre devices were great
_moof
It may not have been technical junk but HP bought Palm three years after the iPhone came out. I loved my Palm Vx but that is truly hilarious timing. From a business perspective, in 2010 they were complete junk.
Sohcahtoa82
HP is a bizarre company.
Like, I think they recognize that printing is a dying business. They want to pivot to something else, but they have no idea what to pivot to. They keep buying out other companies, but then effectively canceling the product.
lemonish97
To be fair, HP buying Compaq in the early 2000s was pretty huge, considering they are doing decently well today because of their PC market share.
crowcroft
Working at HP is the punishment for dumping this product onto people for $700.
gcanyon
$116 million is a pretty nice payday for a product that never remotely lived up to the hype and had, by the end, negative numbers of customers.
avalys
No one is getting paid. Everyone involved is taking a loss. Humane turned $200M of venture capital into a $100M company. At best, some investors are getting $0.50 on the dollar.
rvnx
Do people in the company need to pay back their salaries ?
I doubt so, that's 100M+ USD that disappeared.
avalys
This is a non sequitur. The original comment referred to the $116M HP paid to acquire the assets. None of that was paid to employees.
Yes, Humane burned through $200M of investor capital, and some of it was spent on salaries for employees. The employees likely accepted lower cash salaries than were otherwise competitive, in exchange for equity which is now worthless. What is your point exactly?
Are you suggesting the employees pulled a fast one somehow because the investors paid their salaries? That’s, obviously, how venture-backed startups work, and everyone involved (especially the investors) is very aware of the trade. In exchange, the investors own much more of the company than the employees and have a much higher upside potential if the company succeeds.
paxys
Humane raised a total of $241M from VCs. It is pretty much guaranteed that no employee at the company, and not even the founders, will see a single dollar of that $116M. Investors always get first dibs.
zombiwoof
Those founders milked their “ex Apple” creds to the limit. I was at Apple and they were just bozos
latexr
Are you saying Apple are bozos, or that you were at Apple at the same time the Humane founders were and they specifically were bozos?
sumedh
Why was Imran fired from Apple?
gcanyon
Those are some sad numbers.
falcor84
>negative numbers of customers
You're being facetious, right? Or is there indeed some definition of customers that allows for negative numbers?
gcanyon
Referring to the fact that they were apparently taking more returns than sales by the end. So not negative in total, but over a given timeframe. (hence: "by the end")
falcor84
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Reminds me of that joke where a mathematician watches 2 people entering a house and then 3 people leaving it, concluding that there's now -1 people in the house.
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PyWoody
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ntPxdWAWq8
:%s/Cloud/AI/g
rchaud
It's easy to point and laugh at a failed product with puzzling features, but I have respect for what Humane tried to do. They attempted to produce an AI product and get it to stand on its own two legs (metaphorically). They didn't have an annoying CEO grandstanding about the amazing tech while handwaving away hallucinations and common bugs, something Valley leadership does way too much of.
They didn't start with a VC-friendly strategy of free-then-paid to acquire market share. There was an off-putting monthly subscription right at the start. No confusion about what this product's business model or target customer was.
Contrast that to the ham-fisted way Apple, Android and Microsoft are attempting to bootstrap their AI offerings by jamming it into successful hardware products and sneaking users into it with dark patterns to opt them in.
dcrazy
> They didn't have an annoying CEO grandstanding about the amazing tech while handwaving away hallucinations and common bugs, something Valley leadership does way too much of.
Did you forget that they released a video that proudly demonstrated the AI pin hallucinating the date of the eclipse? They then went back and memory-holed the mistake: https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/13/23959473/humane-will-be-...
In every single public appearance, Imran was clearly trying to project an image of some Zen master version of Steve Jobs. I think you have a massive misread of this company and the hubris of its founders.
ndiddy
>They didn't have an annoying CEO grandstanding about the amazing tech while handwaving away hallucinations and common bugs, something Valley leadership does way too much of.
From The New York Times' coverage of the company (https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/06/technology/humane-ai-pin....):
> Many current and former employees said Mr. Chaudhri and Ms. Bongiorno preferred positivity over criticism, leading them to disregard warnings about the Ai Pin’s poor battery life and power consumption. A senior software engineer was dismissed after raising questions about the product, they said, while others left out of frustration.
> One [issue] was the device’s laser display, which consumed tremendous power and would cause the pin to overheat. Before showing the gadget to prospective partners and investors, Humane executives often chilled it on ice packs so it would last longer, three people familiar with the demonstrations said.
> When employees expressed concerns about the heat, they said, Humane’s founders replied that software improvements reducing power use would fix it. Mr. Chaudhri, who led design, wanted to keep the gadget’s sleek design, three people said.
> In January, Humane laid off about 10 employees. A month later, a senior software engineer was let go after she questioned whether the Ai Pin would be ready by April. In a company meeting after the dismissal, Mr. Chaudhri and Ms. Bongiorno said the employee had violated policy by talking negatively about Humane, two attendees said.
wruza
A story that keeps delivering, thanks!
Not even sure now if man is a fraud or a complete delulu.
mathw
I'll agree with you on that, but I think there's a really important thing that we have to also say about their business model: they developed and launched a product they knew couldn't live up to its billing or its price point. It shouldn't ever have made it beyond its conceptual investigation. Put it on the back burner, try again in five or ten years.
rchaud
>they developed and launched a product they knew couldn't live up to its billing or its price point
Most of the tech sector has this problem, which is why they rug pull customers with the price the second the VC money dries up. We're inured to seeing 10-20% price increases every year for SaaS, because the acquisition price point was artifically low.
I'm glad a company decided to just set a "market price" for once. Unfortunately it failed and rugpulled customers by doing so.
tofuahdude
No, instead, they had two annoying CEOs who grandstanded their own egos.
miunau
> They didn't have an annoying CEO grandstanding about the amazing tech while handwaving away hallucinations and common bugs, something Valley leadership does way too much of.
I dunno:
"Humane AI Pin founders banned internal criticism" https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/06/report-humane-ai-pin...
"The Disappearing Computer — and a World Where You Can Take AI Everywhere | Imran Chaudhri" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMsQO5u7-NQ
rchaud
Given the contemporary hype level of consumer AI, this is well below my threshold for annoyance.
paxys
So this is just an acquihire right? Can't imagine what HP will do with Humane's "AI software" (aka ChatGPT wrapper).
ryandrake
Gruber[1] posted that Bloomberg reported[2]: "Humane’s team, including founders Imran Chaudhri and Bethany Bongiorno, will form a new division at HP to help integrate artificial intelligence into the company’s personal computers, printers and connected conference rooms, said Tuan Tran, who leads HP’s AI initiatives."
So they'll hang around as some sort of director-level Thought Leaders or something? Sounds like a safe and lucrative landing.
2: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-18/hp-116-mi...
lenerdenator
HP AI-enabled printer?
What, did the state of California ask them to develop a new punishment for tech workers convicted of murder? Is Hans Reiser being tortured with this?
JaggedJax
Surely it's so they can feed error messages like "PC LOAD LETTER" into the model and get a sometimes semi-accurate explanation.
ksynwa
Is this what they call falling upwards?
dbbk
I would not describe working at HP as upwards personally, I'd rather just go back to consulting
cmg
This isn't obvious at all but you can click the star next to an item that's "Linked" on DF (where the title goes to another site) to get a permalink to the item on DF itself! https://daringfireball.net/linked/2025/02/18/hp-buys-humane
ryandrake
Oh, wow, that UX is clear as mud. Thanks!
esskay
Which means they'll be shoved into an office for a year before being encouraged to move on. There's not really a role there for them, they were a company that made a chatgpt wrapper, the idea that they have a clue how to run an actual AI based operation is laughable.
tyre
AI Printers, hell yeah brother
Workaccount2
Heeyy morning Jeff! Looks like we are still low on yellow ink today, so I'm probably not going to be able print anything for you. But if you'd like I could order a new cartridge set direct from HP? Would you like me to go ahead with that order or remind you in 15 minutes with another friendly greeting?
If you like I could call you on your cell to remind you, send you a text, email you, or I could just shout loudly from right here in printer!
ryandrake
Hey, now, don't give Brother any ideas!
bikson
That's why cylons rebel. "They look and feel like printers. Some are programmed to think they are printer."
null
null
gorbachev
HP printers are already some of the most anti-consumer printers on the market. Can't wait to see what this group of people manages to achieve. /s
pwthornton
It seems like that and the 300ish patents. The patents themselves could be worth quite a bit.
It's possible they think the OS and the team that built it could have value if put to better uses than building an AI pin.
nikanj
We are looking at another gold rush where the US patent office lets you patent absolutely anything
I still remember a few of the previous ones, like ”A mundane everyday thing…on a computer!” and ”The same thing every company has been doing for decades…but over the internet!”
Be mentally prepared for a few decades of stifled innovation, as every perfectly-ordinary-thing-but-with-ai patent is suppressing the market
vunderba
Remember when Apple patented a "ornamental design for a portable display device" and tried to sue Samsung? I'm sorry but the idea that you can patent a shape is just super depressing.
apetresc
I mean, if you look at Imran Chaudhri's personal homepage (http://www.imranchaudhri.com) I think you'll get a sense of how valuable those patents might be.
Cockbrand
I didn't care about looking at the individual patents, and I can't have a qualified opinion on Imran Chaudhri as a person or as an engineer. But I did have to snicker when I saw the Aphex Twin reference on his homepage.
svieira
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20160300072
> Device, method, and graphical user interface for accessing an application in a locked device
xyst
More like IP acquisition and shelving for future IP litigation if AI bubble continues.
locusofself
This is the only thing that makes sense to me.
MBCook
I agree. You can make an OS for a small device cheaper than that. You can hire the people for less than that.
I don’t see how they have anything of value at all other than patents.
janalsncm
This is really an advertisement for on-device ML. If shutting down the servers bricks your device, I’m less interested in expensive fledgling products.
jahewson
I think it's more an advert for not being a fledgling product.
protimewaster
I'm pretty amazed that they built a $700 device that can't do anything onboard beyond telling you what the battery level is.
$700 hardware can't do more than that?
MBCook
To be fair it couldn’t reliably do more than that with the cloud.
> Ai Pin will still allow for offline features like battery level
> https://support.humane.com/hc/en-us/articles/34243204841997-...
The only feature they could think of was “battery level”? That’s hilarious