DOGE Staffer Is Trying to Reroute FEMA Funds
221 comments
·February 13, 2025PaulRobinson
atomicnumber3
The checks and balances assumed the entire country didn't vote the exact same people into majorities in all 3 branches
duxup
SCOTUS did their part in declaring the POTUS effectively more equal than everyone else.
insane_dreamer
There have been cases before where both the Executive and Legislative branches have been held by the same party. What's different now is that Trump is trying to consolidate much more power in the Executive branch (an explicit Project2025 goal), and Congress is powerless because the GOP are all afraid of highly vociferous MAGA reprisals (I mean, he did pardon all those who violently stormed the capitol and threatened to kill government officials). Trump's strategy (a smart one, I might add), is to push beyond the boundaries of the law as far and fast as he can and see what, if any, resistance he meets.
Nixon attempted something similar but Congress didn't let him get away with it (and passed the Impoundment Control Act, which Trump is now flouting).
lupusreal
> Congress is powerless because the GOP are all afraid of highly vociferous MAGA reprisals
They're afraid of their voters, as they should be, as Trump is more popular with their voters than any of them are. All Trump/Musk need to do is endorse an opponent in their primaries.
pupppet
Trump won the popular vote with 49.8% of votes cast, let’s stop pretending the entire country gave him the mandate to do whatever he wants.
lupusreal
Presidents aren't elected through popular votes. He won 312 to 226.
toomuchtodo
Fourth smallest margin in POTUS election history.
SketchySeaBeast
Unfortunately, it's winner take all, and I don't think he's ever cared about the consent of the people he's taking advantage of.
ryandrake
An eligible voter who doesn't vote is effectively a vote for the winner, so a majority was at least complicit.
georgemcbay
Its even worse than the same party having a majority everywhere.
Trump's cult-like pull and the associated threat of the world's richest man (who still talks about the dangers of the global elites with no sense of irony) bankrolling a primary against anyone who steps out of line have effectively erased the congress as an independent branch entirely.
There are Republicans in the house and senate and even Trump's own administration that I believe aren't aligned with what he is doing but they lack the spine to say so beyond the most superficial talk about their "concerns" (and then still voting for everything he demands).
ceejayoz
> who still talks about the dangers of the global elites with no sense of irony
As with "DEI mayor", "urban youth", "rootless cosmopolitans", etc., it's a euphemism.
bananapub
it's not just that - it assumed that the courts and legislature would not consent to losing their power.
electing a bunch of pathetic apparatchiks to the legislature and letting the Heritage Foundation choose a bunch of lunatics for the courts is why there's no counterbalancing force. the Founders assumed the other branches of government would have some self-respect.
pb7
The majority of the country wants this.
Ekaros
Plurality is the correct term. But this is exactly how representative democracy works. The coalition with most representatives gets to enact policies and decide executive decisions.
insane_dreamer
Not sure what "this" is that the "majority" of the country wants, but, be careful what you wish for.
The fact that the majority of the country is apparently okay with violent and coercive attempts to overturn democratic elections (in other democratic countries we call that an attempted coup), is a strong indictment of the majority of Americans. But, to your credit, at least you're owning your fascist tendencies!
quickslowdown
Objectively untrue. Voting irregularities aside, far more people sat the election out entirely, and of those who voted, there was a vanishingly small lead Trump & co had.
The majority of the country is disengaged & apathetic. That's worse than a majority "wanting this," in my personal opinion, but the majority of the country did not vote for this, they just didn't vote at all.
lukev
They do not.
The majority of the country either did not vote, or voted against Trump.
Most of those who did vote for Trump did so on the basis of immigration, economic or the culture war -- not so he could dismantle the federal government and (e.g.) halt funding for cancer research.
Trump explicitly disavowed Project 2025 when it was clear it was hurting his electoral prospects (even though that plan is precisely what is playing out now.)
croes
Source? Because Trump wasn't voted by the majority of people.
lupusreal
Elected officials trying to do what they told voters they would do is literally the textbook definition of monarchy.
DamnInteresting
> Elected officials trying to do what they told voters they would do is literally the textbook definition of monarchy.
I expect that you intended to say "textbook definition of democracy", but the Freudian slip is quite something.
lupusreal
No no, its monarchism. Doing what his supporters voted for makes Trump a king.
SketchySeaBeast
We're watching the checks and balances fail in real time. By the time the first court order comes through the DOGE boys are already doing something else somewhere else. The legal system can't create injunctions as fast as Trump can sign things. It's proving impossible for a legitimate system to keep up with the wanton pillaging.
insane_dreamer
Also courts can't act until someone sues for "harm" which they themselves suffered. That takes a long time, and by then, the damage is very difficult, or maybe impossible, to undo.
SketchySeaBeast
Yup. Hopefully they have good backups, but once money has been shuffled around is it possible to put it back? And not just in the abstract - this is FEMA we're talking about - lives are going to be lost.
yoyonamite
I think it might actually be worse. I don't think the judiciary can enforce any of their court orders.
beardyw
It is way worse than than that. If it all falls apart, the worst for Trump is to lose an election and retire to Florida. He has no real stake in any of this. The king is the king and the only way out is abdication, passing the problem to his own family.
I am so very happy we have a monarchy. I used to be against it, but the fact that no one person can wreak this kind of havoc is fantastic. And of course the king has really very little power.
I've turned into a monarchist (thanks to Trump)!
Jtsummers
> If it all falls apart, the worst for Trump is to lose an election and retire to Florida.
He doesn't have another election to lose. He gets 4 years (less a few weeks now) and then gets to retire from being POTUS. There are few consequences for him this term. For the Republicans, on the other hand, if DOGE and their trade wars and other things fail, they could be fucked for a decade or more trying to rebrand themselves.
JumpCrisscross
> If it all falls apart, the worst for Trump is to lose an election and retire to Florida
Given his revocation of security clearances for Biden, depending on what happens, the stakes may be higher.
jkestner
> DOGE claims to be auditing FEMA. But sources within FEMA report that the DOGE employees are primarily “computer science guys” and do not understand the basics of financial management. In one instance, a coder brought in by DOGE confronted a FEMA staffer about mismanagement of funds. The FEMA staffer clarified that no funds were allocated during the time period in question and that the DOGE representative simply misunderstood the data.
SketchySeaBeast
We're watching the ultimate destructive expression of the comp sci "oh, we can just automate that" hubris.
chefandy
Thought process: “In theory auditing a government agency is simple. I can write assembly for a computer with millions of moving parts. How hard could it be to debug an organization with twenty thousand employees that need support to configure their own email? I spent literally two weeks watching accounting channels on YouTube, so with my mighty developer ultrabrain, this should be a snap. If only developers had time to work on these problems the world wouldn’t need all of these suits.”
People might read that and think I’m being hyperbolic, but I had someone on HN argue that their debugging skills rendered them better at medical diagnosis than doctors, and better at fixing cars than mechanics, by their own totally objective genius developer standards.
mattgreenrocks
And we will be caught in the resulting cultural collateral damage.
no_wizard
Not to mention financial. Its all but inevitable this will have expensive financial fallout, likely for individuals and the government.
EGreg
Yes! Exactly. :(
Just like Web3 and decentralized tech got a bad rap because of Luna, FTX and other centralized grifters. First they came for the decentralized BFT developers, and I piled on, because I wasn’t decentralized…
simonsarris
That sounds thoroughly unremarkable by itself. A staffer asked for an explanation of something he was seeing and got one (he was incorrect about the data). This interaction repeats a zillion times per day for any consultancy project.
Timon3
Is there any documented process in place to ensure that the staffer has to take the explanation into account?
Government workers have been relentlessly antagonized by Trump and his party. How can we be sure these situations are handled correctly and fairly, especially when the people doing the "auditing" don't know what they are doing due to missing qualifications?
simonsarris
You want a documented process for asking a question and getting an answer?
I sit here in awe
justin66
They were first-principlesing it
duxup
>DOGE currently has FEMA employees tasked with combing through grants for DEI-related keywords for all grants dating back to 2021. DOGE’s list of “problematic" keywords include: Disadvantaged, Marginalized, Underserved, Environmental Justice, Climate, Equity, Equitable, Inclusion, Diversity, and Culture.
It's sad how the "big tech" fear involves installing an administration that emulates the arbitrary nature of big tech, in spades.
diggan
> DOGE is also working with a FEMA IT Specialist and a grant director, according to Drop Site’s reporting. “Everyone is complying. Everyone is afraid to lose their jobs,” sources within FEMA told Drop Site. They describe the situation as FEMA employees following a “chain of command and that leads to DOGE even though they’re not part of it.”
This is how a democracy slowly falls into fascism. Not because it's a overnight coup d'état, but because people freely give power away instead of resisting, and just agree to actions they never would otherwise.
duxup
I think there's value of having good people there when the trump administration is gone.
Having those people quit is effectively part of the current administration's plans.
diggan
> I think there's value of having good people there when the trump administration is gone.
I'm not sure about the assumption that there is "when Y is gone", it isn't fully clear. One of the campaign promises from the group that won was that people won't have to vote in the future. Not sure if that's actually feasible or not, but that it was brought up should at least be considered.
But yeah, I hear and agree somewhat with your point otherwise, there might be value in people resisting in small ways (delays, confusion and so on, basically the CIA playbook for corporate sabotage) rather than in big ways of just saying "No" until you get fired.
tyleo
Is there anything we can do?
I don’t mean to ask that and imply that there is nothing. I mean it as an honest question. Is there a process or organization to snap into right now to help?
JumpCrisscross
> Is there anything we can do?
Keep durable notes and share them with your electeds. Particularly at the state level. These kids won’t be prosecuted immediately, possibly never federally. But their actions will need to be systematically undone at the federal level and individually prosecuted at the state and/or local levels. This is going to be a massive bureaucratic and legal undertaking, and we’ll need record preservation to do it.
dannyr
How will local/state prosecute it?
The crimes are on the federal level and pretty sure they'll receive pardons.
JumpCrisscross
> How will local/state prosecute it?
Lots of state laws around privacy and tort that wouldn’t gain supremacy if a federal court found the DOGE bros didn’t act lawfully. Pardons prevent them from being punished for that lawlessness by the U.S. But it doesn’t stop state courts from finding adversely.
f38zf5vdt
I think maybe the user is implying that a civil war will break out. I started reading about the original American Civil War after recent events. The lead up to that was protracted. As long as some states begin assembling militias now and unify, it's probable they will be able to mount an attack against the Federal government as happened back then.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_events_leading_to_...
pubby
Keep in mind that the ruling party has massively powerful surveillance systems at their fingertips. It's hard to say how things will unfold, but being a dissident may not be in one's best interest.
diggan
> being a dissident may not be in one's best interest.
I agree, if you're not a fan of democracy, you might not want to be a dissident in the current American environment. If you are, then you most likely want to be a dissident, otherwise it'll slowly disappear before your eyes, and you'll be too late to be able to change it soon.
If you're in the latter camp, learn how to protect and hide yourself rather than becoming apathetic because you're afraid of the consequences.
JumpCrisscross
> the ruling party
Monolithic ruling classes are the political scientific equivalent of spherical cows. The richer model (still spherical, but maybe incorporating drag) is that of elite constituencies.
> being a dissident may not be in one's best interest
If we’re going imperial, dissident status is less risky than being poor. Practically every autocratic transition in history has involved a massive wealth transfer up, together with the dismantling of expensive social safety nets.
f38zf5vdt
It seems like there is a winner-takes-all opportunity here to me. Since many of the billionaires in the US have made the decision to align with Trump, if many of the states unify and can overthrow the government, they also stand to separate the billionaires from their wealth.
The Federal American government looks like it's playing a dangerous game -- or at least makes the assumption that individual states within it will be unable to mount a concerted response. With inflation and unemployment rising, and hundreds of thousands of federal workers out of jobs, it's possible state governments may become radicalized.
duxup
Vote when the time comes, and hoping the judiciary behaves independently.
However, considering SCOTUS has largely decided POTUS is largely immune from most anything, I don't see why he can't just ignore the courts when the time comes...
jjulius
What does that say for the rest of us? If the leader of the free world has decided laws don't matter, then as far as I'm concerned that applies to the rest of us, rendering it "legal" to remove him via whatever means we as polite society choose fit.
At least, my hope is that they don't push the limits with ignoring laws because they're afraid that would happen...
duxup
>What does that say for the rest of us?
Gotta do what you can where you are. Even as someone in the US I've disliked how passive other free countries have been...
Propelloni
There are already groups organizing protests across the land. Join one in your area. Or just show up when a demonstration is happening near you. Numbers are important.
null
_Algernon_
Isn't this what you guys have the second amendment for? To secure a free state?
null
pas
Look for politicians (in your district and state) who are already active, pick the one who seems to be not a useless parrot (but also not someone who doesn't get the big picture), and ask them how can you help them, how can you support their efforts.
The good playbook consists of rebooting the D party. (Which lost the election because it did not understand what the majority wants, and how to authentically offer something that is close enough.)
lesuorac
Rebooting the D party is unnecessary.
Losing only by 1.5% in an election where globally nearly every _incumbent_ lost is pretty good.
In the UK, the incumbents lost 20% of their seats [1]. The democrats lost 2 seats in the senate [2] and _gained_ 2 seats in the house [3].
Making drastic changes to a party because you narrowly lost an election with a candidate that never won a primary is dumb.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_Kingdom_general_el...
[2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_Senate_elec...
[3]: (idk how it's 2 since 215-214 = 1). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_United_States_House_of_Re...
ceejayoz
> Making drastic changes to a party because you narrowly lost an election with a candidate that never won a primary is dumb.
That depends on who you lose to.
croes
Congress, lol
jjulius
That. Or pitchforks. Or holes outside of towns[1].
croes
From 2020 but still fitting
https://theshovel.com.au/2020/06/04/nra-accidentally-forgets...
cbeach
[flagged]
Propelloni
How is voicing an opinion and taking civil action "subverting democracy" now? It's not like people are storming the capitol, is it? They are organizing and protesting against unpopular policies in good old fashioned democratic ways.
cbeach
The whole population of America literally had their chance to voice their opinion only a few months ago, and the results are now playing out.
So by all means organise a public tantrum on the street for people to moan about not getting their desired outcome in a democratic election, but you might be more effective if you try to convince your friends to vote Democrat in the next election.
You just need to explain to them that Government waste, inefficiency and ideologically-driven spending is a sensible route for taxpayer money.
justin66
> A majority of people voted for it
A plurality at best, not a majority.
> If you want the return of wasteful, unaccountable and corrupt government spending on ideological goals
I just want the return of stereotypes and platitudes. Why isn't anyone representing me?
null
nickthegreek
Mandate is not clear (4th lowest popular vote win ever). Trump did not receive a majority of the popular vote either. He received a Plurality.
zfg
> If you want the return of wasteful, unaccountable and corrupt government spending on ideological goals
Corrupt? You mean like how Musk silences speech on Twitter: https://www.techdirt.com/2025/02/03/musk-shows-us-what-actua...
Unaccountable? You mean like how DOGE has taken steps to ensure its communications are not subject to freedom of information requests and are sealed until 2034:
https://www.404media.co/doge-employees-ordered-to-stop-using...
https://www.businessinsider.com/musk-doge-records-public-inf...
Ideological? You mean like how DOGE is following the ideology of Curtis Yarvin. Curtis Yarvin thinks American Democracy is a failed project and must be replaced with an American Monarchy. Phase One of his plan is RAGE - Retire All Government Employees and replace them with sycophants and loyalists. They call themselves neo-reactionaries and JD Vance is a fan:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curtis_Yarvin
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/23373795/curtis-yarv...
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2022/04/inside-the-new-right...
It's remarkable to me that no matter how much Musk lies, no matter how dodgy and grubby his actions, there are always people turning up to carry water and make excuses for him.
cbeach
[flagged]
EGreg
In the name of “cutting costs”, they can do anything?
Divert funds to whatever they want?
Explain how taking down open scientific and health data sets is “improving efficiency and transparency”. I kind of liked data.gov as a step in the RIGHT direction for government transparency!
Elon never mentions those things, of course. He has a direct connection to the people, bigger than FDR’s radio which helped him bypass the media, make sweeping changes to US society at the time and get elected to four times. He used to say of his opponents: “they are united in their hatred of me, and I welcome their hatred”.
The next step will be marginalize all the independent press, curtailing their access and making them irrelevant with phrases like “enemies of the people” and “you are the media now”.
We don’t have to go all godwin’s law about only nazis yelling “lugenpresse”. In fact, cooking up phrases to make people support unilateral decisions is the case everywhere.
“Islamofascism” (didnt stick)
“They hate us for our freedoms” (supported crackdowns on Muslims)
“Weapons of mass destruction” (supported invasion of Iraq)
“Unprovoked and Unjustified” (support war in Ukraine as unique and different than everrything that came before)
“Flatten the curve” (supported lockdowns)
And so on. In USA it was much milder compared to Canadan or Australia. “Vision Zero” in China was much stricter, locking down entire cities with no peep.
Authoritarian governments will always come up with slogans to make it easy to support their going around checks and balances, and marginalize their in their way.
Whenever you see people uncritically repeat a phrase verbatim, eg about the press, you know it’s happening.
Make no mistake, “You are the media now” is such a phrase. Twitter / X is not independent media. It is owned and controlled by a small group of people, not just the algorithm that surfaces tweets to everyone, not just the retweeting by the Information Launderer in Chief, but the bots and lack of enforcement. Neither is Facebook / Meta a free platform, as Zuck admitted it also worked with the government. But at least Zuck doesn’t run an agency that gets carte blanche IN the government with our taxpayer dollars.
To me the freedom of speech issue is crucial, to survive takeovers of our public discourse as a nation, so we can at least have genuine conversations about what happened and is happening, without being centrally manipulated by algorithms owned by the people in power.
This is why I believed so strongly for 10 years that we need a viable free open source alternative to Facebook and Twitter, and worked on it for 12 years, even braving ridicule from some HN denizens :)
I am getting ready to release it in a big way. (Obviously not just here.) See links to news articles in the README here if you want to understand what I think is the solution: https://github.com/Qbix/Platform
Qbix aims to do with Web 2.0 what the HTTP protocol and Web Browser / Server did with Web 1.0 (getting people off of AOL, MSN, etc.) And this may trigger some people, but I am saying that Qbix wants to do for Free Speech vs Big Tech in Web 2.0 what Bitcoin was going to do for money vs the Big Banks in Web 3.0 . Make a platform that is decentralized, isnt owned by people who end up working closely with government to push policies down the public’s throat. (The very policies DOGE cites to justify its own sweeping mandate.)
If anyone wants to get involved with building Qbix, email me or get in touch.
cbeach
I don't think taking down scientific datasets is their main priority here. Although obviously if the datasets were created in pursuit of ideological goals then they 100% should be taken down IMO.
ketlag
Why does everything D0G3 get flagged?
croes
Tech Bros stick together?
duxup
Yeah it's a pattern for sure. Lotta folks seem to not want other people to talk about this kind of thing. Same goes for most other Trump administration articles.
I get not wanting to read it, but that's not what flagging is for IMO...
ryandrake
Visit /active: https://news.ycombinator.com/active
You'll see every single article criticizing DOGE has been flagged by users, in order to try to bury it.
ketlag
Im surprised my comment is still up!
sambull
Big tech comes to destroy America.
ramshanker
Here is my perspective as an outside to US:
Trump declared certain policies in his election campaign. Majority (the driving force in a Democracy) agreed to him and voted for him. He is fulfilling his declared policy objective. By virtue of the Vote, and a very recent one, his actions are basically US (majority) people's collective action.
HN majority seems to be out-of-sync with general US public. At least everyone over here agrees US financial systems needs tech upgrades. Those 1st mover tech debts needs to be shed. And I see DOGE doing good 1st steps.
ceejayoz
> Trump declared certain policies in his election campaign.
Trump declared directly contradictory policies, depending on who he was talking to, and publicly disavowed the Project 2025 stuff that was widely unpopular. (Then, hired its planners and implemented their policies.)
Trump received a plurality of the vote, not a majority.
SketchySeaBeast
You keep using majority as emphasis, but that's incorrect. Trump only got 49.8% of the vote. The majority of America voters did not vote for him.
Kye
This confirms all my biases and comes from a source I don't recognize. That trips my anti-confirmation bias heuristics.
Can someone do a journalism on this and get 1-2 other independent sources?
xphilter
Not to be flippant, but why can’t you do that?
Mashimo
A journalist might have contacts in FEMA. Who should Joe Doe contact?
Kye
bingo
I feel like journalism, as an occupation, has had a hard time communicating why it exists over the last 20 years or so while trying to keep up with all the changes.
edit: A free primer on standards, re: confirmation.
One source can, with caution, be the basis of an article, as long as it's presented as unconfirmed. This can induce other sources to reach out to their media contacts, so it's useful.
Two sources is considered confirmed as long as they're independent. Journalists have gotten in trouble with double confirmation when it came out one cited the other.
Three independent sources is considered golden.
There's variation here if the source is the source, with actual authority on the subject, but other sources can add context they might not be willing or able to talk about.
Kye
Well, because I'm not a journalist. I don't have the resources or connections to go and find this out. That's why we have professional journalists.
SketchySeaBeast
Wait, so you're not just asking for other articles around this, you're asking for a journalist to see your hacker news comment and provide you sources?
throw0101c
> Can someone do a journalism on this and get 1-2 other independent sources?
Well NYC isn't happy about some actions:
* https://comptroller.nyc.gov/newsroom/statement-from-nyc-comp...
* https://www.politico.com/newsletters/new-york-playbook-pm/20...
Not sure if this is the same things as the what's in the OP's article.
jajko
If they would rather lean into bureaucratic evils like TSA with similar ferociousness (and saving hundreds of millions or even billions easily), they would get some points to burn on unpopular fascist moves. But no lets target the weakest in society, for sure easy targets with little to defend themselves.
martin_a
As a European this is just so terrifying and fascinating to watch at the same time. I really wonder (and hope for the best) what comes out of all this. With Trump and Musk and this agency that isn't one and all the presidential orders. Will we look at this some time later and think "well, that was really stupid, do not try again" or will the world burn down over this? Crazy times.
lenerdenator
We'll look back on it as we do all of the other times people got away with things they shouldn't have gotten away with while holding the power of the state.
I'll also add that there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there, and that in some cases, it already has. See: Orban, Brexit, Le Pen, AfD, etc... and that of course doesn't touch on what happens in less-Western European countries.
martin_a
> there are absolutely people in Europe who aspire to see this kind of thing happen there
Yeah, that's exactly what I fear. Seeing this is a working example or a role model on how to do it here, too. And yes, you pointed out the most obvious of the bad guys.
diggan
In reality, it's the opposite. What we're seeing day-by-day in the US today matches almost exactly how the rise of Fascism was done in Europe, and how they grabbed as much power as they could, both before the second-world war, and in more modern times.
mytailorisrich
As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right".
They are not.
What seems unique at this stage, and perhaps very American / un-European, is the speed and brutality and the fact that an billionaire entrepreneur was put in charge.
ceejayoz
> As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right".
Just because Hannibal Lecter's stated goal is a "tasty meal" doesn't mean it's intended to be accomplished in a good fashion.
lenerdenator
> As an European I find it odd that you are suggesting that the stated goals of DOGE (government efficiency, cutting public expenses, wasre, etc) are, as I interpret your choice of people/parties, "far right". They are not.
Rule #1 of dealing with these sorts:
The stated goals do not matter. They're sugar coating for the middle.
And even if they did matter, the fact is, we have a friend of the head of government rooting around in incredibly sensitive computer systems with a cadre of interns without any sort of statutory or constitutional authority to do so. What Musk is doing is a crime.
I'd argue it's actually very European. There's a guy with authority to do what he wants because reasons. Sounds like the justification used for monarchy. The only real difference is that there's a role for such a person already carved out in constitutional monarchies, as opposed to creation of it.
martin_a
> What seems unique at this stage, [...] is the speed and brutality
I think this is especially concerning. From all the reports this whole "process" looks like "shoot first, ask questions later" and I think that's not how democracies should work in regards to anything.
While the goals might be very favorable and welcome, the process and way to get there has to live up to high standards, too.
edit: And I think you can have speed and a momentum in doing things without going in like in a Counterstrike match.
diggan
> Will we look at this some time later and think "well, that was really stupid, do not try again" or will the world burn down over this?
Well, considering this is like the N-th time this happen, with the last times being extensively recorded and philosophized about, I'd say we will look back at this and say "How could that have happened? Why didn't anyone do anything?", just like we did the previous times.
mytailorisrich
From Europe this is especially "terrifying" because most countries have massively bigger state sectors than the US and they are very often very ineffective and wasteful. So what is happening in the US is a nightmare for some this side of the Pond because, if it does not lead to catastrophe of course (big caveat), it will give ideas...
No later that yesterday the EU Commission released this (no relation whatsoever, of course):
"we will radically lighten the regulatory load for people, businesses and administrations in the EU. To boost prosperity and resilience, the Commission will propose unprecedented simplification to unleash opportunities, innovation and growth." [1]
Hopefully this means that the EU bureaucracy is waking up.
[1] https://commission.europa.eu/law/law-making-process/planning...
pb7
Interesting how "it all works out and we realize that there was a lot of mismanagement and misappropriated funds" isn't one of your options. My money is on that one.
throw_pm23
As another European it amuses me that Europe cannot give up this smug attitude and keeps looking at the US in such a condescending way. Meanwhile Europe has been in freefall for a decade and nobody here seems to notice.
croes
Compared to the US the EU falls much slower
throw_pm23
You must be kidding, the last decade is about Europe totally shooting themselves in the foot and giving up leadership in almost every field. US and China have been the big winners here.
sagolikasoppor
That is probably because you live in the states that you think that. The EU is so regulated its hard to do anything nowadays.
diggan
> Meanwhile Europe has been in freefall for a decade and nobody here seems to notice.
We all have different values that matter. Europeans (for better or worse) tend to prefer stability, probably because of past experiences, over oligarchy and free capitalism, while the US is almost the exact opposite.
So both parties look at the other and see "freefall decline for decades", both being smug about the other being worse, while we in reality care about different things.
throw_pm23
The stability of Europe is an illusion. Politically and economically Europe is becoming a lightweight who will not be able to do anything without the US permission.
GardenLetter27
As a European, DOGE looks incredible. Saving tonnes of money - wish we had the same in Europe instead of extortionate taxes and a failing welfare state.
insane_dreamer
And ... there we go - flagged by Musk's tech bros again. HN is starting to feel like X -- I've deleted my X account, and might have to do the same here.
I've now switched my primary HN link from the home page to /active, where, thankfully, flagged posts still show up.
JumpCrisscross
I’ve generally been praiseful of HN’s moderation. But given the leadership of YC’s political views, it’s disappointing to see politics called on MAGA criticism but not on similar critiques of San Francisco and New York politics.
vuggamie
It's fascinating to watch the US Federal government dismantled by a tech giant while all of FAANG complies in advance. Thousands of software developers affected with Federal layoffs and DOGE defunding and yet it's not appropriate for discussion on HN.
I believe that the USA is now in the grips of a fascist government. Resistance is minimal and focused on fixing what the administration has broken last week or last month, and may take years to have any impact through courts, legislation, and direct action. The Federal government as we knew it, is gone. Power has been consolidated into the executive branch and a blue wave in 2026 will be too late. Congress is being stripped of its power and the judicial branch has been an enabler of unchecked executive power for a decade or more.
I recognize that this is a fringe belief.
All we can do now is help each other and resist as much as possible.
cbovis
> I've now switched my primary HN link from the home page to /active, where, thankfully, flagged posts still show up.
Great tip, thanks!
ryandrake
Yea, the difference between home and /active has never been starker. I feel like HN's well-intentioned user-flagging system assumed good faith, and was not built to handle the obvious partisan brigading that we've been seeing.
Integrape
I've always had /active as my primary link. It's where the best discussions are! Even if they are controversial, it's usually where the most interesting posts populate.
I say this as a UKian with a constitutional monarch as head of state:
These actions suggest that today the United States seems to have a de facto King with far greater powers than even those held by George III at the time the founders decided that America did not need a King.
They might not be called that, but they have the ability to exert behaviours akin to an English monarch not seen much since Henry VIII. Arguably, we're heading into Magna Carta territory.
The checks and balances are about to get a big test. I hope they work, and I'm proven wrong.