BYD to offer Tesla-like self-driving tech in all models for free
320 comments
·February 11, 2025bdunks
haunter
>At a $14k price point
In China maybe where it's 100k RMB (~roughly $14k). Everywhere else it's the double or at least $25k. It's £26k ($32k) in the UK. It's €32k ($33k) in Germany
Even in Mexico it's $26k (535k pesos) not $14k https://www.autocosmos.com.mx/catalogo/vigente/byd/dolphin
timv
In Australia the entry level "Dolphin essential" is A$30k which is between US$18.5k and US$21k, depending on the (fairly volatile) exchange rates.
Still not US$14k, but not quite the $25k it is in other markets.
senti_sentient
He probably meant Seagull, which is also sold as Dolphin Mini in some countries.
bdunks
Thank you for the correction and clarification. I didn’t dig into country specific pricing before posting.
While still higher, I believe these are all very reasonable prices — perhaps just not as mind blowing. I’m optimistic for the future.
michpoch
> I believe these are all very reasonable prices
Sure, as reasonable as offers from Western manufacturers. You can get plenty of EVs for 30k USD.
wdb
And in Singapore it’s US$120k. Not much more than Tesla or Mercedes etc
throwaway2037
I assume this is the "all-in" price, that includes Singapore's famously highly car registration tax? I found these levels here: https://onemotoring.lta.gov.sg/content/onemotoring/home/buyi...
pfd1986
Just did a quick check and it translates to $30K in Brazil as well
kawera
Entry level Dolphins cost $20.5k in Brazil (R$118k).
null
testfrequency
I was just about to comment that a friend of mine owns a BYD and I got to drive his while in Mexico. Can’t remember the model, but it’s a crossover style.
I was ready to hate on it, but for the price and quality inside at least, wild. It also drove like any other car in the low/mid range that I’ve owned, wheel felt confident and had some heft to it (my preference).
rainsford
I'll admit I don't quite understand how EV demand works in lower income countries like Mexico. One of the major limits I see in the US is that the main appeal of having an EV is reasonably good (i.e. level 2) charging at home, which isn't an available option for many people in the US who don't have private garages with good electrical service. I feel like this limitation would be even more widespread in a country like Mexico, but maybe that's either incorrect or the appeal of EVs outside of the US doesn't rely quite so much on charging at home.
femto
Having just bought an EV, the charging requirements seem to be exaggerated. I'm able to put a bit over 100km range into the car with an overnight charge (9 hours) from a standard power point that can deliver 2.4kW. I'm just using a portable 10A/240V plug-in charger: no fixed infrastructure.
My typical charging regime is: charge to 80%. Drive until the car has done 100km (down to ~50% capacity), then charge back up to 80%. If we go over 100km in a day the car drops below 50%. That can't be topped up in a single night, but it just means the charging accumulates over the next few nights until it's back to 80%. It works as long as the average is less than 100km per day and the peak is less than 300km per day.
Whilst it wouldn't do for a taxi, it's perfectly okay for the driving we do.
jdeibele
I have a Chevy Bolt EUV and charged it on an ordinary US 120V circuit. Because there was nothing else on the circuit, I could tell the Bolt to charge at 12A at home, otherwise it limits itself to 8A anywhere that's not-home. It seemed to be about 3 miles of range per hour at 12A, 2 mph at 8A.
It actually worked pretty well for me. There were a couple of times I ended up "fast" (the Bolt is slow at DC charging) charging but very few in more than a year. The garage didn't have 240V power and we knew we were moving.
At the new house, I have a 240V 60A hardwired circuit for the EV charger so I can charge much faster, probably 25 miles of range per hour, maybe more. I haven't used a fast charger in probably six months.
It is a shock seeing what cold temperatures do to range in the Bolt. We have an Equinox EV and it seems to do better plus it has a longer range to start with.
nickpeterson
The problem in the US is that outlets run at 120v and an overnight charge is closer to 30-40 miles of range assuming 12amp on a 15amp circuit.
In countries with most outlets at 220v it’s probably easier, plus usually less long distance driving than the US.
Obviously if you put a 240v, 50amp outlet in a garage you can ignore everything I just wrote.
jfengel
In the US our regular outlets are more like 1.5kW (110V 15A).
There are also 30A circuits, usually for a dryer or stove. An electrician can set it up for a car, but it's not as easy as running an extension cord to a regular outlet.
zdragnar
You won't find easy access to 240v in most US homes. They're usually put in for very specific appliances like electric laundry dryers or hot tubs. To get your level of charging, most people will need at least some electrical work done.
Your 100km limit is also less than my wife's round trip commute to work, nevermind adding in running errands after or any of the regular travel we do to visit family, though at least some of that would be easy with upgraded charging.
Edit: to be more specific, most US outlets top out at 1.5kw to be safe, though they can usually be temporarily pushed to 1.8 for things like an electric kettle.
heyjamesknight
Unless your commute is long, charging overnight on a standard outlet is more than sufficient. We have two EVs—one for my daily ~50 mile round trip commute while the other stays in the neighborhood most the time—and we never have to charge outside the home.
barbazoo
Gotta take people’s commutes into account. Level 2 isn’t a necessity for many people especially in less car centric environments.
torginus
Solar is super cheap nowadays - you can have a complete 5kW solar install with an 5kWh battery for around $2000 + labor. I'd argue a similar proportion of people have their own houses.
Additionally, a level 2 charger is just a high amperage wall socket plus some safety equipment.
hervature
This is incredibly misleading. The average price per solar install is $3/W so your 5kWh is probably much closer to $15k. Additionally, "+ labor" is actually 66% of the price of solar in the USA (soft costs + balance of system). Could you do the labor yourself? Of course. Do you have the time and tools? Probably not. Is saying "$2000 + labor" false? Technically, no, functionally, yes. All numbers taken from [1]. These do not include batteries in the install.
addicted
Most other countries in the world also don’t tend to have the US’s extremely large distances either.
Things tend to be much closer than they are in the U.S.
rsynnott
Urban taxis often don’t actually drive all that far per day.
boredatoms
Is it possible to import them from Mexio to US as a used-car?
beau_g
Nope, there's a 25 year import rule on cars that aren't homologated for US market https://carbuzz.com/features/25-year-import-rule-everything-...
bagels
It's infinity years in California.
gchamonlive
Yeah... I'm sure it's just to protect the market from lack of parts, protect the user's privacy and prevent cars from randomly exploding in the streets. Makes total sense.
cpursley
Only after 25 years.
vitaflo
They’re not coming to the US market because there’s a 100% tariff on Chinese EVs. Biden signed that last year.
m463
I thought lots of inexpensive cars have never made it into the US market because they didn't meet safety standards.
rsynnott
There’s a demand aspect; you generally have to produce a version per market. ~No EU-spec cars would be saleable in the US, as they wouldn’t meet safety standards (for instance, very different rules on lights) and vice versa. These standards can often seem trivial, but having two versions of a car is expensive. So “doesn’t meet safety standards” usually means “it is not worth anyone’s time to produce a local version, either for demand or tariff barrier reasons”.
lesuorac
Isn't 14k with a 100% tariff still way cheaper than a Tesla?
zdragnar
Nobody actually pays $14k but the Chinese themselves. It's usually in the equivalent of $25k to $30's.
Throw in the tariffs and what not, and you lose out to other low end EV models.
TiredOfLife
I thought that tariffs are bad and only punish americans, and anybody imposing them is an evil dictator or something like that.
null
adrr
US doesn't have a large demand for EVs so I doubt we'll see BYD in the US. They are building a factory in Mexico that is capable of 300,000 vehicles per year.
slashdev
Not sure where you get that info from.
Demand is also relative to price and US EVs are very expensive.
adrr
"“We’re not planning to come to the US,” Stella Li, executive vice president of BYD and CEO of BYD Americas, told Yahoo Finance Live (video above). “It’s an interesting market, but it is very complicated,” she added, citing growing political pushback on Chinese companies and the slowing rate of growth for EV adoption."
From the largest maker of BEVs.
rsynnott
In terms of percentage of sales, the US is one of the smaller markets: https://ourworldindata.org/electric-car-sales (see the breakdown under “ Share of new cars sold that are battery-electric and plug-in hybrid, 2010 to 2023”, particularly the battery-electric section)
Now, the US is a big market, but even so, particularly with the US’s tariff barriers and unique consumer preferences (the average car in the US is a lot _bigger_ than elsewhere, and cars made for other markets do not sell well; for instance see the leaf), you can see why car makers would prefer to focus on the EU and China.
hnburnsy
Watch Out of Spec for reviews of the latest Chinese EV tech including ADAS and battery swapping...
I was floored by what they are producing in China. It is a shame that these cars are not reaching more of the world and raising the competitive bar. I get the government subsidy and lower labor costs issues, but the tariffs are retarding competition, propping up prices, and hurting consumers.
999900000999
Its all about milking Americans for more money.
Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k. It's not the greatest car ever, but it would be a cool city car. Naw, better go and pay 40k for a worse American version.
Temu is getting basically banned. It's not enough I pay around 40% of my income on in taxes and healthcare insurance, I now much pay higher prices for the same stuff on Amazon.
addicted
Americans are paying a lot for cars not because western manufacturers cannot make cheaper cars.
American cars are expensive because Americans have been convinced buying big SUVs is AMERICAN and patriotic, and even the Americans who aren’t dumb enough to fall for that nonsense have to buy bigger cars because we’re in a car size arms race and it’s outright scary driving a normal hatchback around these massive Trucks masquerading as cars.
This has lowered demand for smaller and cheaper cars, giving auto manufacturers the perfect excuse to stop selling small cars in the U.S. especially since SUVs are just not profitable because they’re unsophisticated and yet super expensive.
michpoch
> Without all the trade restrictions, you could buy a BYD EV for 10k.
No, you couldn’t. In Switzerland there are no EV trade restrictions and no, we do not have 10k BYDs. They cost roughly same as any other Western manufacturer.
rangestransform
It’s a UAW handout that’s trickled down through Government Motors™
MangoCoffee
China is very good at mass production. Once they master the art, with the backing of the Chinese government, they can afford to lose money to gain market share. All U.S. car companies, including Tesla, would die if the U.S. allowed Chinese 10k car in.
Hell, Obama didn’t let the auto industry die back in 2008. Can you imagine Trump, who said there would be a "bloodbath" in the auto industry without him—allowing a $10K Chinese car into the U.S. market?
suraci
> with the backing of the Chinese government, they can afford to lose money to gain market share
I'm curious which one lost more money, openai or byd
dyauspitr
I can absolutely imagine Trump allowing just about anything if he gets sufficient kickbacks. He has no love for the US.
bamboozled
It’s free market capitalism. At least they’re deleting the government. That should save you a few dollars, right ?
999900000999
I'd actually be open to a libertarian government if that's what we got.
If before firing thousands upon thousands of government workers, they say eliminated all income taxes on your first 100k, it would do something for the middle class.
I really feel like US taxes are the worst of both worlds. They aren't much lower than in Europe where most(all?) countries have much cheaper if not free healthcare.
A system where getting fired usually cuts off your health insurance sounds like a dystopian novel. Serious health issues have a tendency to stop you from working.
No matter where in the world you go as a US citizen you still owe US taxes.
al_hag
What does it mean to say you get lower labor cost and government subsidy issues? Are you saying the tariffs are disproportionate to the impact of the subsidies? Temporary price distortions eliminate competition, not encourage it.
hnburnsy
>lower labor cost and government subsidy issues
These are the arguments in favor of tariffs on Chinese autos, I understand they cause a disparity, and yes, IMO they are disproportionate.
noizejoy
> IMO they are disproportionate.
Typing the three letters in “IMO” is most certainly easier than doing/documenting complex financial analysis.
testfrequency
Just an FYI, Kyle (owner of Out of Spec) is a complete narcissistic jerk who treats his girlfriend like complete crap.
It was a pretty bad and uncomfortable pattern to watch unfold online, and many people unfollowed their work because of how awful his (and honestly a few of the others who contribute) attitude(s) are.
rcdemski
Any recommendations on where to read more about this? While his style never really engaged me, I never pegged him as being a terrible person.
hnburnsy
Don't know anything about that, but watching a 4 minute battery swap was pretty cool.
testfrequency
They do interesting deep dives and more thorough benchmarks in the EV space, which does stink to not be able to enjoy anymore..I just can’t in good faith support them.
judge2020
Given their M/O is seemingly using indentured Uighur servants, it probably wouldn’t work economically here.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/chines...
tzs
They've also got factories in Europe, South America, and a bunch of other countries. The cars from those factories aren't as inexpensive as the cars from the Chinese factories but they are still pretty low priced for the areas those factories are building for.
They could probably build cars in one of those places that would be economically viable in the US if not for the tariffs, and would satisfy US labor sensibilities.
hnburnsy
Well at least we are protecting those automotive union jobs so that the average MSRP can top $50K.
tzs
Are we? Only about 16% of US auto workers are union.
When states started offering incentives like big tax breaks to get auto makers to build factories outside of they often made those breaks contingent on the plants not being unionized. Those states also often had laws designed to make it much harder for unions to organize.
Mr-Frog
I read the article and while it definitely seems like visa abuse, I saw no reference to Uyghur people. I think you are conflating several issues here.
Also the workers in that article are supposedly being paid very close to $7/hr, which is close to Brazil's median income.
999900000999
Thank God we never do that here.
>Intricate, invisible webs, just like this one, link some of the world’s largest food companies and most popular brands to jobs performed by U.S. prisoners nationwide, according to a sweeping two-year AP investigation into prison labor that tied hundreds of millions of dollars’ worth of agricultural products to goods sold on the open market.
https://apnews.com/article/prison-to-plate-inmate-labor-inve...
calvinmorrison
Tuquoque.
Freedom2
Isn't prison labor a large part of some town's economies? Sounds like it could work just fine, so your assertion is false.
suraci
i trust uyghur workers
uyghur workers are same as other chinese workers, smart, hardworking, diligent, reliable, and they don't bring drugs to factory
btw, we are all forced labor in the 'world factory', forced to work overtime and earn little, to serve the empire and its golden 1b people
bradgessler
Why are US EVs 2-3x the cost of BYD EVs? Do US consumers not want cars at that price point, is it regulation, is to labor/material costs, or some combination thereof?
It seems like if there was a $15-$20k EV in the US market, it would be a no-brainer "around town" second car.
Instead we get $30k Model 3/Y's or $80k EV SUV/Vans.
seanmcdirmid
Nissan Leaf now starts at $28k. Chevy Bolt is now $26.5k (was, now discontinued). Given that the dolphin goes for $21k in Mexico, it isn't a huge price diff, definitely not 2-3x. Not sure where you see Model 3 for just $30k, it starts at $40k in the USA. Only in China does a model 3 cost $32k.
tzs
> Not sure where you see Model 3 for just $30k, it starts at $40k in the USA
Probably from Tesla.com. It lists the long range RWD cash price as $29920 (in my state) unless you notice the checked checkbox that says "Include est. incentives of $7,500 and 5-year gas savings of $<whatever> for <your_state>" and uncheck it.
$whatever is $5000 for my state.
AtlasBarfed
Still expensive for a swastika.
This will be interesting to unpack, seeing what happens to Tesla in a marketing theory sense.
I predict that Chinese and us manufacturers will partner or rebadge Mexican or Canadian made Chinese EVs within a decade
Also, I believe the sodium ion battery has yet to impact the EV market. In theory a 200-300 mile car of sodium ion batteries should be 1/2 that of NCM drivetrain or less. That should enable a sub 10k car even in the us
_huayra_
> Nissan Leaf now starts at $28k.
Kinda missing the point that you get 50% more range in the Dolphin, plus a lot of additional niceties / tech stuff that is just not available in the Leaf.
rsynnott
There are more competitive cars at the price point in Europe (the Leaf is kinda long in the tooth now; second-gen is 8 years old), but the US is likely not a priority market for cheap EVs; it's a smaller market for EVs _in general_ than either Europe or China, and it's also not a good market for small cars.
I assume that the 25k EUR id.2 (replacement for the VW eUp, out early next year) will launch in the US, tho, and should be competitive with the Dolphin.
seanmcdirmid
> Kinda missing the point that you get 50% more range in the Dolphin,
Nissan leaf: 240 km (149 miles) for the 40 kWh version and 341 km (212 miles) for the 62 kWh version.
BYD Dolphin: 340 km (211 mi) for the 45 Kwh version, 427 km (265 mi) for the 60kWh version. The cheapest 30 KwH version doesn't have a WLTP range that I can find (I don't think it is being exported outside of China anyways according to wiki).
Leaf is less, but it isn't 50% of the range.
bagels
The Chevy Bolt was discontinued.
tw04
Not exactly. There is a 2025/26 model coming out. They just stopped selling it while they moved it to a new platform and battery.
https://electrek.co/2025/02/06/first-look-new-chevy-bolt-ev-...
seanmcdirmid
Oops, I missed that. The Leaf is still for sale.
klooney
https://www.tesla.com/model3 says "From $29,9901"
kmonsen
Isn’t that including tax breaks? Yes after checking the cheapest is $42k the advertised price includes 7500 tax break and 5000 in gas savings.
cladopa
Subsidies. Basically all savers in China that have money in the bank have to pay for development of what the central Government considers a priority, like steel and aluminium production, solar panels or EV vehicles, or chip manufacturing.
Aluminium and steel costs significantly less in China than the rest of the world, but they now face significant problems because of overcapacity. There are so much factories built and so small demand companies can not survive without help from the Government. They were build thanks to cheap loans from the Government.
So the Government made an investment that is not making money, so basically is a transfer of wealth from bank savers account to industry.
This is also applied in the US and EU, let's remember interest rates below inflation, "Quantitative Easing" and other transfers of wealth the central banks do in the West.
Tesla was also subsidised.
fy20
> There are so much factories built and so small demand companies can not survive without help from the Government. They were build thanks to cheap loans from the Government.
It feels like this is true for any older Western country like Germany or the UK too. Why exactly have China been successful in reducing costs?
ammo1662
Just check the comments here:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42942405
China boasts a complete industrial chain and the best logistics infrastructure. If you want to engage in industrial production, you can find the most suppliers here, who can provide you with the parts you need at the fastest speed and lowest logistics cost.
Not to mention the largest number of educated workers, who won't leave marijuana in the products you send to customers.
These are all factors that can actually reduce costs, which cannot be achieved solely by subsidies.
insane_dreamer
The subsidies in China have been significantly larger.
Besides that, EVs in the US are targeting a different market segment. It's for people who would be buying a $40K SUV, not those buying a $20K Corolla.
michpoch
> Why exactly have China been successful in reducing costs?
Reducing price != reducing cost
42772827
Labor costs and a manufacturing industry that isn’t hyperfinancialized by the government
plantwallshoe
There are tons of used Leafs online for under 8k USD that still have a range of 60-100 miles. Perfect around town car but the price seems to reflect that no one wants one.
hedora
Early Leafs ate batteries, so the really cheap used ones often need a potentially unavailable replacement battery.
You can easily get a used EV in good working order for under $15K though: https://insideevs.com/features/715984/best-used-evs-on-a-bud...
m463
Take a look at the used market. For example, I regularly see used nissan leaf's for under $3,000
https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/cta?auto_make_model=niss...
insane_dreamer
China has heavily subsidized EV production in order to become a leader in that area (particularly battery production). Same thing they did with solar panels.
reaperducer
It seems like if there was a $15-$20k EV in the US market, it would be a no-brainer "around town" second car.
Every few months Electrek publishes a list of EVs that can be leased in the United States for under $200/month. Sometimes they're as cheap as $99 or even $0/month, depending on your state's incentives.
michpoch
Yes, and that list includes almost no cars under $200 a month. Just go and check it.
They’re not including the downpayment.
xyst
American companies have been using the excuse of “more technology/screens” to justify the higher price points. Then using vague “inflation”/“pandemic”/“supply chain issues” to justify higher prices.
However as we witnessed during the pandemic, manufacturers of goods tend to increase the cost of the goods despite minimal increase in supply chain, cost of materials or labor. It’s all for maximizing profit and they were “testing” the market to reap massive profits.
With no competition, they (collectively as an industry) felt no need to decrease prices or offer cheaper vehicle options.
I also suspect abuse of CAFE exceptions (ie, “light duty trucks”) is the second leading cause of the death of affordable vehicles.
gibolt
BYD also charges ~double the price in other markets, including Mexico, compared to China. That makes it very close to a base Model 3, for much less car.
ggm
This seems like doing a lot of +++ on one side and --- on the other, to say "its cheaper, for a cheaper car"
1) it's not as expensive as a model 3 in mexico
2) it's not as much lower end, when it comes to what drivers want, noting FSD is not actually on anyones radar, or "free" with the low end models
3) it's cheaper by a margin most people on rational incomes close to average would say is a LOT of money.
mikl
One might hope it’ll cause Tesla to drop the price for their “full” self-driving too. $8'000 for a software feature is just bonkers. Especially in Europe, where there’s no subscription option, so you can’t even try it without paying the full price first, and many of the fancier features are not supported here. Even regular auto-pilot is not very reliable for me, it often fails to recognize city limits signs, and fairly often panic brakes because it misinterprets cars driving on the other side of the road as being on collision course.
yakz
It’s $8000 because it doesn’t work and it comes with free hardware upgrades until it works (for some definition of ‘works’ but currently it breaks often enough and badly enough that you’d have to be dishonest to say it works without a huge collection of qualifying footnotes attached to the statement)
highfrequency
You can bet that the 100% tariff on BYD cars in the US isn’t going anywhere with Musk so influential in the government. A $14k EV would be a huge threat to Tesla’s market cap.
hnburnsy
>You can bet that the 100% tariff on BYD cars in the US isn’t going anywhere with Musk...
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cq55zd2xjreo
>Musk opposes US tariffs on Chinese electric cars. "In fact, I was surprised when they were announced. Things that inhibit freedom of exchange or distort the market are not good," Mr Musk said on Thursday. “Tesla competes quite well in the market in China with no tariffs and no deferential support. I’m in favour of no tariffs," he added.
hedora
Very little of what this administration says matches their actions.
suraci
it really depends on the market share of tesla in china
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/teslas...
and it's changing
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/02/07/tesla-car-sales-in-china-fal...
Cyph0n
That was in May of last year. A lot has changed since then.
hnburnsy
2025...
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-joins-legal-battle-agai...
>Tesla TSLA has joined BMW and several Chinese manufacturers in challenging EU tariffs on China-made electric vehicles at the Court of Justice of the European Union (CJEU), per a court filing.
bagels
Musk says a lot of things that are not true. Hard to know if that was a serious take.
filoeleven
> 23 May, 2024
hnburnsy
No recent evidence of Musk's position, but Tesla just last month opposed China tariffs in the EU.
senordevnyc
Musk seems significantly more unhinged today than he did nine months ago.
notatoad
even if the tariff did disappear, i can't imagine BYD is going to be too eager to get into the US market. there's plenty of other places to sell cars.
asadotzler
They will eventually build in Mexico (or the US South) and we'll get them here.
SauciestGNU
I think rest of world will gobble these up though, especially with retaliatory tariffs or straight up import bans on Teslas on the table from aggrieved trading partners.
IncreasePosts
I'm just waiting for the inevitable fallout that seems to come with most trump advisors to buy BYD stock.
modeless
Let's not blame the current administration for tariffs that Biden imposed.
hathawsh
OTOH, theoretically, could we produce a decently priced EV with US materials only? If we go all-in on automation, could one factory worker do the job that many do today, thereby reducing costs? If we can head in that direction, I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation.
callc
Sure. Price every good from not-USA 1000x and let’s see what happens.
I thought the republicans were in favor of a free market, but it seems more like those with power don’t mind putting some weight on their side of the scale, since they own the scale and the bank.
> I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation
Be careful about any phrase that starts with “I think {person} wants to…” especially if person is rich/powerful. Judge people based on their actions, not the facade they put on.
hedora
We already know what will happen. The US goods will be priced to match the price of foreign goods with tariffs and zero money will be spent investing in future production capacity in the US.
We know this will happen because it is what always happens when countries impose punitive tariffs on foreign goods. Later, the domestic industry collapses and the tariffs are lifted.
hn_acc1
> I think Elon wants to compete in that kind of market, not bog it down with regulation.
Exactly what market is that? Where Tesla has 0 responsibility for any issues / defects / deaths-from-FSD? Sure, that market he wants to play in - it has only upside for him.
The one where he has to compete on price/features/whatever, and he can't make rude comments or cut people off who he doesn't like? Please pass the bong..
drawkward
Elon is a direct beneficiary of government subsidies on EVs. He wants regulations if it benefits his profitability.
xyst
To me, tariffs from the orange man are political theater and appeal to his base, and subsequently sell it via media.
What’s to stop manufacturers of goods from shipping it from a country that is not China, laundering it through a different country. Paper work for container says, “imported from {non tariff restricted country}” at the ship yard.
Cheap Chinese goods still flood the market. Orange man gets to say he has been hard on China via tariff war.
atlintots
In fact, the tariffs on BYD cars were imposed by the Biden administration.
filoeleven
Yes, Biden increased by $18 billion the $300 billion tariffs that Trump first put in place.
> The new tariff rates – which range from 100% on electric vehicles, to 50% for solar components, to 25% for all other sectors – will take place over the next two years.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/14/politics/biden-tariffs-chines... May 14, 2024
not_a_bot_4sho
Funny story: was visiting Chengdu and got to test drive a BYD. The sales rep was super energetic and proud of how superior to Tesla their tech was.
And I was eating it up until she turned on self-driving and we crashed into a parked car.
Still a really great EV car at a great price. But I'm not ready for any car's self-driving after that...
rsynnott
> And I was eating it up until she turned on self-driving and we crashed into a parked car.
I mean, I don't see your problem; she was simply demonstrating that it had the same capability to randomly crash into things as Tesla's solution! That's what people _like_ about the Tesla one; keeps things interesting.
iamthemonster
Yeah I drive a BYD Atto 3 and it's a great car but the lane assist and adaptive cruise control lets it down significantly. I won't be getting excited about self driving this decade.
aussieguy1234
Lots of people are refusing to buy Tesla's due to feeling alienated by Musk's political views and antics: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2025-02-07/tesla-sales-slump-off...
Like the article says, Many Tesla owners are also looking to offload or sell them to avoid any appearance of endorsing Musk or his views or being linked to them in any way.
Many awkward conversations are being had with Tesla owners around Musk and alot of them don't feel comfortable owning the cars anymore.
This BYD feature, while BYD is not a perfect company themselves, will cause further issues for Tesla.
nunez
Tesla just got Deepseeked. Amazing.
I love FSD. I use it daily. It's replaced a lot of driving for me. This should 100% be available to everyone for free. It will significantly improve safety once edge cases are worked out.
tw04
Edge cases like snow and rain? If you live in Southern California it seems like it will replace humans everywhere. If you live anywhere with seasons, you wonder when they’re going to figure out cameras don’t work in heavy rain or with a layer of salt caking the lens.
glitch003
surprisingly, it works excellent in rain. i was on the highway in florida in a torrential downpour, the kind where everyone turns their flashers on and goes 25mph. many people pulled over to wait it out. FSD handled it perfectly even though i could barely see. it did show a warning that it might be degraded due to weather, but there was no change in performance.
i can't speak for snow tho.
nunez
It works amazingly in rain here in Houston.
0xcoffee
>BYD has deployed three different versions of the “God’s Eye” ADAS across its line-up. All three offer automated parking and lane-keeping features, with the basic version – available on models costing up to 219,800 yuan ($30,078.69) – enabling autonomous driving on highways. The driver must keep their hands on the wheel and take control when necessary.
>Two higher-end versions will be installed on more expensive BYD-branded cars and its premium Denza and Yangwang brands. These will enable a car to drive autonomously — though also under human supervision — in more complex urban traffic.
The base version is self driving as in lane assist. It will not change lanes for you or 'self drive' to your destination.
I agree with BYD that these are great safety features and give them props for not gating safety behind a paywall.
tim333
Here's a video of the self driving in action. The commentary is in Korean but you can still see it drives ok in some tricky situations. There was one human intervention in 30 mins driving. Filmed in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qjl3r3D2tG4&t=340s
jongjong
Surely they cannot sell at this price without government subsidies (direct or indirect)?
This possibility paints a frightening picture of the power of government in the global marketplace. The government of any large country can selectively choose to monopolize any specific industry and wipe out all competitors in other countries via subsidies.
It's not a fair playing field for market participants. It makes the whole environment completely unpredictable and dominated by the whims of hundreds of different governments. It promotes government scheming over raw productive capabilities of workers and entrepreneurs; it throws decentralized economic efficiency under the bus in favor of monopolistic, centralized government-oriented strategies.
In such environment, I can understand why tariffs are essential. You can't have a market where participants are playing by different rules of different countries. Also, you can't expect market participants to familiarize themselves with the (possibly secret) policies of hundreds of different governments or be forced to abandon their entire industry in their own country because they happen to be skilled in an industry which is not propped up in their own country as it is in some other foreign country.
Our system is so incredibly asymmetric, right down to the monetary layer. People ought to refuse to participate at all.
BTW, it's not only China which plays these games; you could also say this about US tech/software industry.
fy20
Tarrifs don't really help in this situation though. The actions of large governments do not affect just themselves, it's affect other countries too. The affects are much greater than just where to get the cheapest steel. Smart governments can use that to their advantage.
If you look at it from a big picture, one of the major winners of the Ukraine war has been the USA oil and gas industry, as Europe now imports almost 3x the amount of LNG it did before the war from USA [0].
The USA military complex is also doing pretty well, as governments in Europe are allocating more towards defense as Russia seems like a much riskier neighbour than it was 5 years ago.
[0] https://www.bruegel.org/dataset/european-natural-gas-imports
asadotzler
US EV makers have received as much or more in subsidies than Chinese makers in the last 5 years.
null
I was in Mexico City two weeks ago and a few uber drivers were driving BYD Dolphins. I was impressed. At a $14k price point, I can’t imagine better value for money. I got sucked into research and there are no near term plans for expanding to the US market. It’s too bad. They’re expecting to sell 500,000 units in Mexico this year. With the current (lower) emissions standards, I’m optimistic such affordable EVs will make a big difference to air quality in the coming years.