Reviving the joy and honor of working with your hands (2015)
112 comments
·February 11, 2025nicoburns
ChrisMarshallNY
Because of reasons, my education was a vocational tech school. The fly-by-night type that sprang up in the 1980s, to suck at the teat of the GI Bill, and all those Vietnam vets (many of my classmates were vets).
It's long gone, now, but it taught me to be a good worker. They had dress codes, fixed, workday-long hours, little vacation, and behavioral rules.
By the time I graduated, I was able to immediately start working in a defense contractor's shop. When I went in, I was pretty much worthless to the workforce.
I know of folks that credit the military for similar structure.
There's a lot of things that I could have learned at Stanford or MIT (my parents wanted to send me there, but I insisted on paying my own way -see "reasons," above, and they probably would have passed on me anyway -"reasons").
Did OK.
bjelkeman-again
I went back to university to study environmental science. After that, years later, I ended up starting a company designing closed loop food production systems, (well, semi-closed).
I designed and built it with friends, investors and colleagues. Very satisfying. (The fish farm has since the pictures been significantly upgraded.)
https://cirkularodling.se/build-an-aquaponic-indoor-farm-par...
lnsru
It’s absolutely the same in Germany. Trade people against academics. Luckily as an electrical engineer I can pick both tracks simultaneously. Many people are less lucky. The funny thing that self employed plumber or electrician can live way better than salaried worker with university diploma.
Tanjreeve
Is it looked down? It seems like a pretty relentless drumbeat from our media that everyone should be plumbers/electricians etc and not be going to university (except for the children of politicians and journalists who should continue going).
Purely coincidentally the people with those loud voices would benefit from cheaper tradesmen, their kids would have less competition and politically would benefit from a less tertiary educated population.
veunes
It's frustrating how vocational paths are often seen as "less than", when in reality, they're essential
moribvndvs
My father was a machinist for 25 years and then went into education and training for skilled trades, very much screamed about this for most my life. When I dropped out of college, he tried to get me to just enter an apprenticeship for a trade. It’ll be dirty, uncomfortable, sometimes painful, he said, but you’ll leave your work when you go home, and if you’re dedicated and half-good at it, you could eventually have your own business and crew before the physical stuff catches up to you. By then the lack of experienced tradesmen here will have turned into an crisis and I would be in an enviable spot. Here I am, 25 years later, worried I didn’t listen.
Hypothetically, I wonder how viable it is to switch to a vocation like electrician or HVAC in your 40s-50s.
bitwize
My father is a retired mechanical engineer. About 10 or 12 years back he mentored some engineering students on their senior project. He said they were very smart, but had almost never touched a machine before which both frustrated and baffled him. In his day, engineers learned how to make the kinds of parts they designed because a design is a set of instructions to factory workers on how to make the part. If you knew nothing about tooling, tolerances, etc. you couldn't produce adequate designs, and the most valuable information came from actually working with the machines.
xyzzy123
In 2025 making pancakes at school requires a written risk assessment / safety plan.
Health and safety regulation has exploded in the last 40 years and the liability gives administrators heart attacks. Many kids today are not even allowed to use kitchen knives let alone chisels or lathes.
It's not the fault of the kids, but the effects are somewhat self-fulfilling - kids who don't get access to even slightly dangerous things while growing up don't develop the skills and awareness they need to work safely as young adults.
mitthrowaway2
It's probably not their fault. A lot of university engineering programs don't provide students with access to machine shops.
blitzar
A lot of university engineering departments don't have machine shops.
bitwize
He was more frustrated with how the state of education had changed than with the students themselves. He actually enjoyed working with them.
jcgrillo
I believe the same problem is present in software. The same things that make "physical" tools good are what make computer tools good. If you don't have any experience using physical tools, you won't be easily able to appreciate what using a good tool feels like. I think a lot of the problems in software--buggy, inefficient, over complicated, user hostile crap that most of it is--can be traced back to a misunderstanding of the concept of "creativity" or "innovation" rooted in simply not knowing where the guard rails are.
Loughla
Go to a community college and get your certifications.
The problem is that the wages are way low starting out. That's why young people tend to do it. If you can swing the first three or four years, then start your own business, you'll be good.
ty6853
The other hazard trades can be dangerous starting out until you work safely even on automatic when sleepless and zoning out. Learning rough carpentry cost me a broken leg, which healed slowly in my 30s and much worse in your 50s.
Larry Haun iirc even broke some bones in his first few years. It's a young man's game, getting over that well enough and fast enough to return to work without going bankrupt.
null
bitwize
Even as an old man (late 40s)?
lemonberry
Old man? You don't have to age like previous generations. I just turned 50 and feel great. Take care of your body and mind, laugh a lot, spend time with good people, and don't let preconceived notions of what aging looks like dictate your future.
Loughla
Yes
alnwlsn
I'm glad the "heavy" part of this is not understated. The big iron is out there, surprisingly cheap, and it usually stays put for quite a while because it is a damn bitch to move. Tear down a wall, and put it back later. And make sure your floor won't cave in.
If you ever get yourself into serious hobby machining, get ready for the average density of all your possessions to double.
WillAdams
This is why the Northern European countries have a tradition of teaching Sloyd Woodworing in elementary schools:
https://rainfordrestorations.com/2013/06/04/traditional-sloy...
>Students may never pick up a tool again, but they will forever have the knowledge of how to make and evaluate things with your hand and your eye and appreciate the labor of others.
jabl
It's spelled "slöjd", and yes, kids in Nordic countries do it in primary school (grades 1-9 or thereabouts). It's not only woodworking, often alternating with textile work (sewing, crocheting etc.), and towards the higher grades there's usually some metal work, maybe a bit of soldering etc.
unwind
It sure is spelled "slöjd" in Swedish, but sloyd [1] seems to be a loan word into English from the late 1800s and the spelling was adjusted.
skadamat
Shop Class as Soulcraft essay (and book) continues on these points pretty well: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/shop-class-as-so...
iainctduncan
Absolutely brilliant book. His other one is great too.
memhole
It's super cool to build things. I love talking to people at the makerspace. Lot's of people working on interesting projects. I can't imagine not having home ec either. I don't remember the teachers name, but I've made a quesadilla the same way since 5th grade.
Some tech skills are helpful too. I typically CAD projects so I know what size lumber and cuts need to be made.
s1artibartfast
I'm split on the topic. I think there is value in working with your hands on a service basis, but don't believe in trying to build things.
My father was a farmer for 40 years and built a business that was supposed to be his retirement. Then the government eminent domained his water rights without any compensation, destroying his life's work, and leaving him and all the other farmers in the area high and dry.
Now I don't build anything that isnt cashed out immediately.
cbracketdash
May I ask which region this happened in? Building things is the powerhouse of societal innovation and if you live in a democratic country, you can vote out bad policy!
s1artibartfast
Southern California, USA.
The funny thing about democracies is other votes count too. 99% of the population is happy with the outcome because they get more water water and don't have any person rights they feel are put at risk.
I'm guessing the state figured most of the farmers in their 60s can't afford legal challenge when there primary financial assets were cut out from under them and if they do, it can be tied up in the courts until most of them die. That's how it seems to be playing out anyways.
ty6853
More and more the majority has discovered they can vote themselves into someone else's pocket. City dwellers can also horde water aquifers, and since they don't have the firsthand experience of drilling a $30,000 well they're oblivious as to how they ruin others.
dh2022
“Portable property, my good sir, portable property”, Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities.
at_a_remove
Before the fall of Techshop, they offered me a setup where I could take all of the classes I wanted in three months. Muhahahahaha.
I already had a few advantages going in: a year of drafting in high school, a year of computer drafting in college (mind you the tools were long dead); the ability to think in parametrics; courses in engineering to go with my physics degree; and just being a general geek. Like a maniac, I took all but one class they offered.
Probably one of the happiest times of my life, scampering around the shop and churning out trinkets for friends and family, making weird art projects for myself.
noufalibrahim
I recently read a book called "Shop Class as Soul Craft" which talks about "the trades" and how it shapes the individual and the nation. I found it really enlightening and highly recommend it.
I have a few hobbies that are somewhat physical (whittling, calligraphy) and the shift from purely digital work to those are very relaxing. There's something special about involving more senses that just your eyes with a job.
FinnLobsien
I think the fact that essays like this one proliferate is showing a cultural reversion.
For the past few decades, there was a push for everyone to get a university degree, driven by a prmise that academic achievement would guarantee a prosperous life: A good salary and a high-status job.
We've seen that promise broken. Especially in the US, where student loans are a drag on people's lives. But even in Europe, where people will get degrees in things that are better taught on the job (i.e. graphic design) and still need to struggle getting internships and even badly-paid junior roles.
I think it's been known for a long time that you can make money in the crafts, often more than you do in entry-level office jobs. But I think an important part of making the crafts more popular is status.
If your dad is a lawyer and your mom is a professor, you might not get encouragement if you want to be a welder, chef or roofer.
There needs to be more respect for those professions. They, too should get respect for learning a complex craft and mastering it.
djoldman
> It’s all part of the sharp decline in vocational education — shop class — in this nation that began in the 1980s as blue collars became unfashionable and the emphasis shifted to a college education.
Low supply?
> “There’s a huge need for people in CTE fields,” Kaine told me Friday. “The old stigma about CTE, or vocational education, that’s really disappearing and there’s kind of a renaissance going on.”
Big demand?
This would imply that machinists, etc., are enjoying a big surge in salary. Is this true?
psd1
I can only offer anecdata, but good luck getting a plumber to attend in London without paying £100 for them to cross the threshold
robomc
> It’s all part of the sharp decline in vocational education — shop class — in this nation that began in the 1980s as blue collars became unfashionable and the emphasis shifted to a college education.
Yeah that's what happened. They became "unfashionable", rather than hopelessly precarious due to structural economic changes.
almosthere
What is wild to me about that, is that there is a huge untapped market for 1 man builds. If I can go out and build a house twice a year for 150-200k each, and sell them for 400-500k, then I'm way ahead of what I would get as a remote developer. And 400-500 is conservative, in the right market, 600-700.
What bothers me is gatekeeping the capital to do this, as well as the "apprenticeship" requirements to get your gen con license.
It would solve two problems simultaneously - something laid off engineers can easily do (they are problem solvers and fast learners).
I'm building my own house, and it's ridiculously easy (not all parts). I hope to build more after and sell them.
nancyminusone
If that's what's bothering you, there's no way in hell I'd hire you to build a house.
quesera
That's unnecessarily hostile.
House building is not that difficult. And literally zero of the licensed trades (plumbing, electrical, HVAC, etc) cannot be learned by a smart and motivated person in 1-2 months at most, instead of the multiple years (each, nonconcurrently) required for apprentice, journeyman, and eventual master licensing.
I've built three houses. I subbed out the work that was required by local regs (this varies by jurisdiction and year), and did the work myself, with inspection where available, wherever possible. Not difficult at all.
almosthere
Most people in those individual trades hired by D.R. Horton are doing things as fast as possible with the cheapest materials.
I personally would want a person that is being paid very well that oversaw every nail, every wire going into that house.
But :shrug: I don't mind you not being my customer. I will give my meticulously installed kiln dried studs/plates, zip sheathing, rockwool, interior rockwool, exterior rockwool jacket and james hardie fireproof house to someone that appreciates it!
ty6853
That's not how one off man and a truck builds normally work. Its usually only viable as a business when doing owner/builder on your own dime then flipping it and repeat. Clients don't want to wait years for one man, nor will banks, but someone will almost certainly buy even a half ass built house upon completion.
Sometimes you also see tradesman do this during down seasons, as it gives them a steady flow of stuff to do that they can complete almost as slow as they like then flip when done.
The buyer likely won't have any insight into the personal motivations of the builder, or what bothers them.
carlosjobim
Any man who is unable to learn to build a house is far behind the average in talent. Everybody used to build their own houses.
bongodongobob
That's hilarious. I'd rather hire a team of people that have specialized teams and have built 1000s of houses, not a guy that built one and thinks he's really good at it, sorry.
_carbyau_
I understand the point of specialisation/efficiency etc. The concern I have is that of conflicting motives.
A person who builds their own house will care about what they built. A specialised team will care to get paid and know all the corners to cut to get the job done to the minimum standard.
What kind of house do you want? One built robustly with care? Or one built to minimum standard? Not everyone wants minimum standard.
acheron
The “team of people that build 1000s of houses” have the motto that if they didn’t make any mistakes, they’re not working fast enough. Give me one guy who actually cares any day.
quesera
This post is literally about the value of building things with your own hands.
If you do not derive value from that sort of thing, then what point are you trying to make?
I have no desire to sew my own clothes, but I'm guessing you are not interested in hearing me talk more about that?
horns4lyfe
lol specialized teams? It’s just whatever illegal immigrants are willing to show up that day
loa_in_
It's the same logic as people doing machineworking projects on YouTube. Things thought crazy, but not so crazy after all, fascinating instead. Going off the beaten path might be expensive at first, but the payoff is much better too. Emanating inspiration lasts for ages and is immeasurable in value.
I wish education wasn't so split between "academic" and "vocational" (for lack of better terms).
In high school for my A levels I was able to take both Maths, Physics and Politics (with an academic focus) and Metalworking and Photography (with a more practical hands-on focus). I loved this, and feel like this was incredibly useful to me later in life.
But for some reason beyond school level you are mostly forced to choose between academics and hands-on work (at least in the UK). With the hands-on pathways being looked down on by much of society.