Google Maps now shows the 'Gulf of America'
199 comments
·February 11, 2025yosito
ryandrake
Where does it end though? If he decides tomorrow to start calling Canada "Beaverland," will all our maps change again?
SequoiaHope
Many people are currently desperately trying to figure out where it will all end, with possible outcomes much worse than renaming places on maps.
mlinhares
Look at all the third world countries in latin america that have been through a coup, that's where it ends.
ben_w
Indeed. While I was surprised by the name, I quickly noticed that this was a vibes-based reaction.
I'm British by birth, I grew up with news stories about the IRA, and the second-largest city in Northern Ireland is either "Derry" or "Londonderry" depending on if you're a Republican* or a Unionist.
The English Channel, if you're French, is La Manche.
The country I currently live in is Saksa in Finish, Tyskland in Danish, Allemagne in French, Niemcy in Polish, or Germany in English, none of which is close to the endonym of Deutschland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Germany_Name_European_Lan...
* i.e. "not a monarchist" — this has nothing to do with the US political party.
robertlagrant
> If he decides tomorrow to start calling Canada "Beaverland," will all our maps change again?
The guy got enough votes without needing to promise to do this as well.
amazingamazing
why waste time and energy discussing silly things he might do when he is literally doing silly things now, for real?
Nevermark
> Where does it end though? If he decides tomorrow to start calling Canada "Beaverland," will all our maps change again? reply
> why waste time and energy discussing silly things he might do when he is literally doing silly things now, for real?
The example used was making a larger point than, oh no, "Canada -> Beaverstan", for laughs.
The point is: What line would be too far for industry to resist presidential renaming by fiat. A kind of power with known risks. Renaming by fiat has a name, "Newspeak", a term coined in the not very silly book, 1984, by George Orwell.
Trump has a history of doing lots of "silly" things just to see if he can. It is a low risk way for him to pre-test, or pre-expand, any barriers to more serious expressions of his power. Such as renaming things in a way that undermines or alters the impact of laws.
tlavoie
Well, the "Gulf of America" nonsense is also shown here, in brackets after "Gulf of Mexico." So it seems like they're not content with just keeping it to the US as originally stated.
jsnell
As far as I can tell, there was no such original statement. There was, however, a statement saying the opposite:
https://x.com/NewsFromGoogle/status/1884012872768053467
> Also longstanding practice: When official names vary between countries, Maps users see their official local name. Everyone in the rest of the world sees both names. That applies here too.
xiphias2
Probably not, as polls show that it was his second worst decision in his voter group.
He is polling quite well with his voters, this was more just a power play.
486sx33
A great idea! I rather like beaver-land it sounds like such a wonderful place.
In all seriousness this started in trumps first term when he insisted on changing NAFTA to USMCA while canada calls it CUSMA and Mexico calls it T-MEC … so it’s the no one agrees on anything agreement
JumpCrisscross
> canada calls it CUSMA and Mexico calls it T-MEC
Huh, Tratado entre México, Estados Unidos y Canadá, TIL!
(Honestly, kind of genius.)
JumpCrisscross
> Where does it end
Same way every naming fight does. Each side requires its own labels.
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mrastro
Maybe Trump's plan to make Canada part of the United States, just rename Canada to the "United States" in the GNIS database and they appear part of the same country (at least within the real "United States" borders, Google implements names based on a Geo fence for each country).
oneeyedpigeon
> It doesn't seem that Google made an independent decision to change the name.
Isn't GNIS a US-only thing? I am not in the US, yet I am seeing "Gulf of America" in brackets after the correct name. Doesn't that suggest the decision is a bit less "independent" than you're implying?
martius
When a border or name is disputed, this is shown with the "given names" in the countries on each side of the dispute, and with both names (one in brackets) everywhere else.
francisofascii
I was under the impression the International Hydrographic Organization (IHO) defines the naming of international waters.
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Dudelander
Like I said, loyalty test.
diggernet
One detail I've not seen mentioned in these discussions is that the EO specifically identifies "the U.S. Continental Shelf area bounded on the northeast, north, and northwest by the States of Texas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Florida and extending to the seaward boundary with Mexico and Cuba". I'm not sure exactly what that looks like on a map, but it's clearly focused on US coastal waters. (Which kind of makes sense, because GNIS has no naming authority outside of US borders.) But it also makes the implementation by Google Maps wrong, since a large part (a majority, I think) of the gulf is still the Gulf of Mexico. It seems like the area should be drawn as two adjacent gulfs, the Gulf of America to the North and East, and the Gulf of Mexico to the South and West.
(Not debating the merits, just pondering mapping details.)
AlotOfReading
This depends on whether it's a regional name applied to the body of water or a specific name applied to the territorial waters within the greater region encompassed by the original name. Google has chosen to regard it as a regional name applied to the entire body rather than as a specific name for territorial waters implied by the EO. They do this for other regionalized names like "South China Sea" (e.g. "East Sea" in Vietnam).
losvedir
I was surprised to learn when living in Bahrain that what I knew of as the "Persian Gulf", is there known as the "Arabian Gulf". Only tangentially relevant, but kind of interesting.
walthamstow
I get "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" on a Japanese connection.
This stuff is obviously pointless and silly but it's nothing new. I'm sure Google Maps shows UK and French users different names for what I would call the English Channel.
JumpCrisscross
> obviously pointless and silly
Ironically, it’s the same language policing that got the left in trouble. We have better things to do with our lives than keep a running tally of the right and wrong names for things.
soerxpso
It's not the same language policing that got the left in trouble until you're worried about being fired from your job for calling it the Gulf of Mexico.
JumpCrisscross
> It's not the same language policing that got the left in trouble until you're worried about being fired from your job for calling it the Gulf of Mexico
Would you really feel confident in your job at X if you called it the Gulf of Mexico?
dcrazy
The difference is that enough Alaskans had always called Mt. McKinley “Denali” that the State of Alaska petitioned the U.S. government to change the federal name in 1975.
Who asked to change the name of the Gulf of Mexico?
lolinder
I left a comment that was flagged for clarifying what was actually being discussed, and I'm not going to take that sitting down this time:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43012859
Left and right are both off their rockers right now, and it's really frustrating for the majority of us stuck in the middle, getting shouted down and silenced from both sides.
lolinder
[flagged]
kenhwang
I see Gulf of America when it's zoomed in, but Gulf of Mexico when zoomed very out or very very in.
stevage
Probably a caching issue
nope96
I see "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" when zoomed in all the way. "Gulf of America" when zoomed out.
llacb47
Likely cached tiles either on your end or Google's servers
mytailorisrich
France tends to be oblivious to name changes. Beijing is still "Pekin", Turkiye is still "Turquie", "Kyiv" is "Kiev", etc. because "this is how it's called in French" and they don't care what other countries/languages do.
asyx
That’s most other languages though. English has the disadvantage that it’s the global lingua Franca so everybody has an opinion. In German, Beijing is Pekin, Turkey is Türkei, Kyiv is Kiew, Czechia has always been Tschechien even when you still said Czech Republic in English.
And also, to be fair, most names in other languages have a long history. I wouldn’t want people to call Germany anything but what it is called in their local language because for most European languages that’s a millennia of history packed into that name.
walthamstow
Every language does that, including and especially English.
You should go and look up what Croatia is really called. Or Japan, Germany, Korea, China, Hungary, Greece, Finland...
chrsw
Like another poster on this topic said, it's not pointless or silly. It's a demonstration of power.
CharlesW
As well as an example of the "flood the zone" strategy designed to overwhelm and distract.
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oneeyedpigeon
> I'm sure Google Maps shows UK and French users different names for what I would call the English Channel.
It would be interesting to see what it shows people outside of UK and France.
globular-toast
It should just vary based on language. In English it's "English Channel", in French it's "La Manche", in Italian it's "La Manica" etc. etc.
It's not a UK vs France thing, it's just English vs French (vs every other language).
Things get complicated when governments make things "official", though. For example, the Welsh government decided to make the "official" names for some places Welsh, which English speakers have no idea how to pronounce. So the Brecon Beacons is "officially" Bannau Brycheiniog, even in English, apparently.
oneeyedpigeon
It still says "Brecon Beacons" for me. Doesn't even include the official name in brackets.
insane_dreamer
That is due to differences in language.
In Ireland, for example, it's called the English Channel.
Dudelander
It's more or less a loyalty test. Are you going to use the correct term, or Trump's term. Which side are you on?
Eddy_Viscosity2
I think every country should call it "Gulf of country", in France they direct all map providers to call it the Gulf of France, in Australia, they call it the Gulf of Australia, and so on.
Sparyjerry
That's actually hilarious, but America also stands for North America and South America. Gulf of The United States doesn't quite ring the same.
lolinder
This is a nice interpretation of it, and maybe if this sticks we can reinterpret it that way, but this is coming from the guy who coined MAGA, the title of the order is "RESTORING NAMES THAT HONOR AMERICAN GREATNESS", and the text makes it very clear that it's about the US:
> It is in the national interest to promote the extraordinary heritage of our Nation and ensure future generations of American citizens celebrate the legacy of our American heroes. ... in recognition of this flourishing economic resource and its critical importance to our Nation’s economy and its people, I am directing that it officially be renamed the Gulf of America.
oneeyedpigeon
I saw a "Gulf of the Americas" suggestion which makes the second-most sense, after not changing it at all.
dannyw
It’s absolutely pointless, but Gulf of the Americas almost has a nice bonding tone.
ryandvm
Honestly, this would be the funniest possible outcome.
sethd
Discussion of this issue on OpenStreetMap forum: https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/gulf-of-america-gulf-o...
swah
I really enjoyed the "joke" the other day where some standup guy said that we have the tech now to make everyone happy: just show this part on Google Maps as China to this set of people and Taiwan to this other set of people etc etc
ChrisArchitect
Related:
Just searched Google Maps for Mt. Denali, Alaska only for it to return results for Mount McKinley immediately. Note I'm not really sure if that's anything to do with an executive order or that it was Alaskans wanting it called Denali while many elsewhere in the country incl at the Federal level called it McKinley.
TheJoeMan
I think if you're bragging to your buddies you summited Denali it has a much more air of mystery than "I climbed McKinley".
nonrandomstring
I think the gulf of America is in Washington right now.
gazook89
I was wanting a graphic t shirt with a skull in be style of a topographic map, with the empty space between the ears labeled as the Gulf of America. Alas, I have art skills and didn’t want to fuss with midjourney for a result half way there only to realize I wasn’t ever goiing to pull the trigger.
tonymet
Washingtonians prefer we use Washington for the state and DC for the Federal District of Columbia.
PaulDavisThe1st
Are Washingtonians from the state or the district?
tonymet
Washingtonians are from Washington .
cratermoon
Whatever you do, don't right click on the map and select "Report a data problem".
acc_297
Someone's already made a chrome extension to search+replace "Gulf of America" to "Gulf of Mexico" in online text I don't think it works for google maps place titles but no doubt someone will fix that.
It's a new level of public-but-divided space when we all start running client side software to reinforce our world view. I'm certainly not criticizing that chrome extension I think that is funny, but it's also something to think on.
NicuCalcea
It's not a new level at all, these extensions have existed since shortly after extensions started existing.
A few examples:
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/trump-dog/bdhcfpbga...
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/tralalump/epclgaegl...
https://chromewebstore.google.com/detail/cloud-to-butt-plus/...
insane_dreamer
Just refreshed Apple Maps on my phone, and it also shows Gulf of America where over the weekend it was still Gulf of Mexico.
bdangubic
refresh on Canada too, it’ll shown North American 51st State :)
insane_dreamer
My phone says "Canada (52nd State)", while Greenland is marked "(51st State)" -- not sure who decided the order there. Gaza just says "(US Territory)" -- too poor to warrant statehood.
The real news here is that GNIS has been updated with the name. It doesn't seem that Google made an independent decision to change the name. Resistance to this change would really have to happen at the government level, not the tech level. Which really seems to be the point that's being made with this whole ordeal. It's a symbolic move to demonstrate to everyone that what they say goes and that the system isn't resisting their power.