LINUX is obsolete (1992)

ryao

  While I could go into a long story here about the relative merits of the
  two designs, suffice it to say that among the people who actually design
  operating systems, the debate is essentially over. Microkernels have won.

The developers of BSD UNIX, SunOS, and many others would disagree. Also, the then upcoming Windows NT was a hybrid kernel design. While it has an executive "micro-kernel", all of the traditional kernel stuff outside the "microkernel" runs in kernel mode too, so it is really a monolithic kernel with module loading. While the original post was written well before NeXTSTEP, the Mach 3.0 kernel was converted into a monolithic kernel in NeXTSTEP, which later became MacOS.

The reality is that Mach 3.0 was just still slow performance wise, much like how NT would have been had they had made it into an actual micro-kernel.

In the present day, the only place where microkernels are common are embedded applications, but embedded systems often don't even have operating systems and more traditional operating systems are present there too (e.g. NuttX).

JodieBenitez

> Writing a new OS only for the 386 in 1991 gets you your second 'F' for this term. But if you do real well on the final exam, you can still pass the course.

what a way to argue...

ViktorRay

The realization that in 2058 some people will be reading comments from 2025 Hacker News threads and will feel amused at all the things we were so confidently wrong about.

;)

scarface_74

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32919

I don't think what the iphone supports will matter much in the long run, it's what devices like these nokias that will have the biggest impact on the future of mobile http://www.nokia.com/A4405104

No one is going to stop developing in Flash or Java just because it doesn't work on iPhone. Those who wanna cater to the iPhone market will make a "watered down version" of the app. Just the way an m site is developed for mobile browser.Thats it.

If another device maker come up with a cheaper phone with a more powerful browser, with support for Java and Flash, things will change. Always, the fittest will survive. Flash and java are necessary evils(if you think they are evil).

So it will take 1 (one) must-have application written in Flash or Java to make iPhone buyers look like fools? Sounds okay to me.

thebeardisred

2007 was looking pretty hot - http://web.archive.org/web/20070707022624/http://www.nokia.c...

scarface_74

And the all knowing pg said that the iPhone will never have more than 5% market share

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33083

I mean it had more space than the Nomad and wireless. What else could he have wanted?

npsomaratna

Back in the '90s, I read a book called the "Zen of Windows 95 Programming." The author started off with (paraphrased) "If you're reading this 25 years in the future, and are having a laugh, here's the state of things in '95"

I did re-read that section again 25 years later...

the_cat_kittles

hopefully people have progressed to the point where hn has been completely forgotten

nialse

How about retrospective ranking of comments based on their ability to correctly predict the future? Call it Hacker Old Golds?

_thisdot

Easily available are AskReddit threads from 2014 asking predictions about 2024

Onavo

Fun fact, Reddit only soft deletes your comments. So all those people using Reddit deletion/comment mangling services to protest only deprive their fellow users of their insights. Reddit Inc. can still sell your data.

deadbabe

We’re not that optimistic about the future here.

davidw

Maybe someone will hide a copy of HN in a durable format in a cave and someone will rediscover it one day.

hackerbrother

It’s always heralded as a great CS debate, but Tanenbaum’s position seems so obviously silly to me.

Tanenbaum: Microkernels are superior to monolithic kernels.

Torvalds: I agree— so go ahead and write a Production microkernel…

decafbad

This guy got a few million euros from EU for a secure OS, if I remember correctly. What happened to that project?

otabdeveloper4

Research was researched extensively. It's a net win for humanity, don't worry about it.

dang

Related. Others?

The Tanenbaum-Torvalds Debate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39338103 - Feb 2024 (1 comment)

Linux Is Obsolete (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38419400 - Nov 2023 (2 comments)

Linux Is Obsolete (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31369053 - May 2022 (2 comments)

The Tanenbaum – Torvalds Debate - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27652985 - June 2021 (7 comments)

The Tanenbaum-Torvalds Debate (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25823232 - Jan 2021 (2 comments)

Tanenbaum–Torvalds_debate (Microkernel vs. Monolithic Kernel) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20292838 - June 2019 (1 comment)

Linux is Obsolete (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17294907 - June 2018 (168 comments)

The Tanenbaum-Torvalds Debate (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10047573 - Aug 2015 (1 comment)

Linux is obsolete – A debate between Andrew S. Tanenbaum and Linus Torvalds - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9739016 - June 2015 (5 comments)

LINUX is obsolete (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8942175 - Jan 2015 (74 comments)

The Tanenbaum-Torvalds Debate (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8151147 - Aug 2014 (47 comments)

Linux is obsolete (1992) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7223306 - Feb 2014 (5 comments)

Tanenbaum-Linus Torvalds Debate: Part II - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4853655 - Nov 2012 (2 comments)

"LINUX is obsolete" - Andy Tanenbaum, 1992 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3785363 - April 2012 (14 comments)

Why was Tanenbaum wrong in the Tanenbaum-Torvalds debates? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3744138 - March 2012 (54 comments)

Why was Tanenbaum wrong in the Tanenbaum-Torvalds debates? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3739240 - March 2012 (1 comment)

Linux is Obsolete [1992] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=545213 - April 2009 (46 comments)

mckn1ght

I would love to see a metathread (unintentional h/t to reddit's megathread) that pulls the comments from each link in these replies from you. In any case, thanks!

Naru41

No-modularize is strictly good if you can avoid it. Hardcode memory addresses at compile time is simpler and faster.

msla

Here's the debate in a single compressed text file.

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/historic-linux/ftp-archives/suns...

null

[deleted]

tcdent

Great reminder that there's more to adoption than just theory on paper; the practicalities, communities and a little bit of inexplicable magic are how new tech really takes off.

lincpa

[dead]