Ask HN: Is onboard audio still good enough compared to dedicated Sound Cards?

Theoretically your onboard sound could be just as good as anything you get off a card. In practice, it comes down to the physical implementation on your motherboard, like are the amplifying components well specced for their use, are they well separated spatially/electromagnetically from other potential sources of electrical noise on your motherboard, what are the power traces potentially shared with or near, is your power supply giving it clean power.

Now those aren't things you can casually observe all that useful information from, so it doesn't really help that much other than to try and buy quality components and hope for the best, often if you want good onboard sound you can find it if you are spending a reasonable amount on the board to start with though and not using and underspecced or dirt cheap PSU. A sound card could alleviate some potential issues though either because you bought a cheap board or just from being lied to by marketing that you were getting better onboard sound than they actually built. But it is still located on your motherboard and near a bunch of other things running at their own frequencies which may or may not be a problem depending on location and shielding and components.

And for all those reasons, a lot of people have skipped the sound card route and got a USB DAC, which gives a lot of physical space between all those other components and eliminates some restrictions in form factor for being inside a computer.

One thing to look at before you do anything else, look at where your analog speaker line is running. Is it now crossing near your PSU or power cords? Is it a different cheaper cord? The lowest hanging fruit for sound quality is the longest and final analog run and it is always good to try moving it around if you suspect a problem.

Balanced differential inputs and outputs reject common mode noise, which is why they are essential for long cable runs and microphone leads, among other things that benefit from such an interface.

The actual ADC and DAC chips, or codecs, are usually specced just fine in even consumer on-board audio devices.

Hifi audiophiles are notoriously superstitious, and as long as RCA coax is the connection standard, my eyes continue to roll about their DAC nonsense, but you should pay attention to professional audio as this is where you can hear audible differences. Preamplifier stages and voltage amplification in general have a lot of nuance and analog circuit know-how inside. Removing the codecs from the inside of an electrically noisy computer is the beginning of starting to care about audio signal quality. Power filtration is another major concern for noise. Latency is a factor of buffer size which is both necessarily low when overdubbing recording while monitoring, and yet paradoxically allows for smoother glitch free audio as the buffer size is increased, largely a function that is CPU bound. No one talks about DMA controllers or the data bus employed, often USB, another factor that can affect audio independent of which audio interface or soundcard is employed. Some play nicely, some don't.

My advice is to delve into the world of professional audio, as this is real. Hi-fi often entails gullibility and snake oil in the sales chain.

Mixed signal components are hard to do well and have significant impact on the quality of final analog audio I/O. So, it matters which components have been used regardless of whether it's on on-motherboard solution or an external add-on solution (whether internal over PCIe or external over another appropriate bus, such as USB); however, the economics of onboard solutions make it quite likely that this is where quality will be skimped since many consumers won't care much about quality differences in this area, whereas the focused external solution will live or die in part based upon the quality of such components.

Note, however, that this concern really only applies to whatever in your system is performing the final digital to analog or initial analog to digital conversions since that interface with the "real world" is where the quality matters. In a world with bluetooth speaker systems, where that mixed signal phase actually happens in the speaker hardware, it is relevant to consider where this kind of quality even matters in the full audio system you're deploying.

The chips used themselves for sound are perfectly fine. It’s pretty much all Realtek codecs on any motherboard. And even on the sound blaster cards. The only difference between onboard and dedicated cards is a bit more thought and care is put into shielding and external component selection, which can have a pretty big effect on performance. That tends to be the big difference between onboard and dedicated cards. Nobody hears the difference between 16 bit 48khz and 24 bit 96/192khz anyways. But bad component placement or selection can add noise, THD+N, and other problems.

Onboard audio frustrates me greatly. For a long time, I always used my onboard audio to an external DAC + amp. With my most recently build (circa 2020) there is something wrong with the USB bus that it's on (gone are the days of PCI audio interfaces, I guess) and it just randomly skips and cuts out. The rest of the USB ports on the motherboard work fine, it's just this internal one that's unreliable. (Though sometimes if I have a bunch of cables connected to ports but not devices, USB becomes flaky. This happens if you're developing hardware and you have a couple J-Links and random microcontrollers on breadboards hanging off your USB bus, but sometimes you disconnect them all to take them back to your lab bench. Then your mouse randomly stops working...)

Anyway, external DACs are the way to go. My external DAC supports USB in addition to optical, so I just use that, and everything is wonderful. I have a cheap USB <-> XLR device for audio input. Again, no problems.

All in all, I've never had great luck with onboard sound. I am not sure why it's hard to get right. Maybe it's an Asus thing. For some reason I always end up with Asus motherboards.

Good enough for what?

Mastering a recording for money?

Listening to MP3’s through headphones?

Or something in between?

Consumer audio devices do all kinds of psycho-acoustic adjustment based on the likely limitations of playback systems, likely music genres, and consumer expectations.

Headphones and small speakers are going to sound thin without them…i.e. a transparent system is going to try to reproduce sounds that most speakers can’t output.

None of which is to say your new system sounds good or bad. Just that what sounds good is subjective and context dependent.

What headphones are you using? If they’re fancy enough then your motherboard sound card may or may not be powerful enough / low noise enough / there’s a variety of other things enough / to flap the drivers as precisely as the old board. If they aren’t hella fancy or hella high ohms then this isn’t usually it.

Beyond that. Recon3d is Soundblaster? So they were probably doing a quality level one full step up from what you’d get with a typical motherboard. Something like an Asrock Taichi would typically max out the motherboard tier. Beyond that, you’re into PCIe cards or USB things or HDMI cards that expose a digital device to your PC and do the analog conversion somewhere other than the motherboard.

The conversion from beep-boop binary to analog electrical impulses for your headphone drivers, and the ability to add and remove power to the drivers through your headphone cables, are the two components of quality that you have control over. They’re typically called DAC and amp, and the options in hardware reflect that.

The fastest way to find out whether you’ll be happier with a better sound card is to buy one that has a 15-day return policy; either any modern USB Soundblaster, or a combo dac/amp for headphones like the Schiit Fulla E at ~$100. If that makes it all better and you’re happy, solved!

If it sounds perfectly fine in quality (no hiss, clearly audible music like you prefer) but is ineffably flat or lifeless, you may have had some sort of enhancement processing going on in the old motherboard’s driver that was adding head effects. For that path, make sure you’ve tried out Windows spatial sound > Dolby Atmos for Headphones; it’ll cost a few bucks one-time to activate but it’ll let you test if you were getting virtual surround boosting (or the modern Soundblaster USB devices may have this built in to test with too).

If you are experiencing digital noise in the output, like buzzing or clicking that correlates either activity on your computer, try installing a ground loop isolator in between your computer and speakers.

This is essentially a mini transformer that physically isolates speaker/amp from the computer to isolate any power related noise.

They are dead cheap on Amazon these days.

Other than that, a USB DAC might help. You don't need an expensive one, which are mainly expensive due to inputs & microphone preamps. The main benefit will be a reduced noise floor/less background hiss, although that can also come from the amp driving your speakers.

You didn't mention what you're plugging your computer audio into. For example if you're using headphones, then the headphone impedance and the card's ability to drive it are going to vary wildly depending on the specific amplifier circuitry involved. If you're connecting a line level signal to an external amplifier this is not so relevant, although there will be some line-drive circuitry on the board or in the chip, and this will vary, and can make a (marginal) difference if you have long cables.

I thought it was all mostly similar with some difference between annoyingly unsatisfying and workable on one hand, and fine/good on the other hand. My upper-midrange Asus motherboard and Apple lightning-to-headphone-jack adapter being in the latter category; Fine! Good! Music is enjoyable!

Then I got a Fosi Audio DS2 out of curiosity after coming across some measurements and discussion over on audiosciencereview.com

and

it is MILES better than any audio device I’ve ever had

There is a difference. (Also when driving speakers.) The difference is very, very clear. This particular device isn’t the only one that makes this kind of difference. It was like $50.

Anything inside the case will have more noise from other components than something sitting outside the case. Instead of a sound "card", you're going to want a USB DAC. It doesn't even have to be that expensive - those $10 Apple USB-C dongles were highly rated.

Depends. Do you care about FLAC vs MP3 quality? Then onboard will likely never be enough despite it being highly unlikely you can tell the difference when the song is ripped from the same audio source. (I can sometimes on my setups at home, but never could in the car)

If you have a decent set of headphones or speakers, grab a soundcard from the jungle site and find out. If you can't tell a difference, return it and keep your money.

It is subjective. Just depends on what is important to you. Pretty much everything has 24bit/96khz capabilities if not 32bit/192khz capabilities these days. IMHO, it comes down to if the opamp on the device is of good enough quality for the device you're driving. You don't want to plug a set of 600ohm headphones into a generic onboard sound device and expect it to sound like it would if you bought a proper DAC+amp setup. It simply doesn't have the power. If the sound device has a line-out, then you only need an amp.