Astronomers delete asteroid because it turned out to be Tesla Roadster
91 comments
·January 26, 2025Reason077
therealpygon
It is being tracked under the correct designation “2018-017A”, therefore they are deleting an erroneous report that was temporarily assigned the designation that was deleted. What makes you think they “stopped tracking” it?
rendaw
The headline says "delete" not "correct" or "replace". Blame clickbait.
juancampa
Agreed, if the title were "Astronomers reclassified asteroid..." there's barely any reason to click on it.
null
chomp
Neither of your suggestions are accurate. The headline is accurate.
null
Reason077
OK. But it seems like something is amiss if this error keeps being made. Why didn't the reporting astronomer, or anyone who presumably checked the submission, find the 2018-017A object when searching for it in their database?
minetest2048
Because their software, sat_id can only search Earth-orbiting satellites:
> Payne noted that when the Tesla Roadster was originally launched in 2018, the community caught it and flagged it as an artificial object, and the MPC “correctly labeled it as such without assigning a minor planet designation.”
But when subsequent observations were archived by the MPC and later identified by G., sat_id failed to locate the Roadster, said Payne. And the object was not caught upon further review because unlike most satellites, it orbits the Sun and not Earth. In addition, it is an unusual Sun-centric orbit for a spacecraft. Because it was a test flight for the Falcon Heavy, there was no destination in particular; that is why its trajectory originates near Earth but overshoots Mars’ orbit, as G. noted.
As the article mentioned, there is no such thing as space-track.org or celestrak.org where anyone can get trajectories for all deep space spacecraft. The closest thing we have is JPL Horizons, so they're working with them:
> Payne agreed that a central repository, “regularly updated by national and private space agencies, would significantly enhance the identification process.” Currently, he said, the MPC is collaborating with JPL on a system to better detect artificial objects that aren’t in Earth orbit and filter them out of the MPC’s observational database.
lima
It's being tracked, but not by the "Minor Planet Center".
dmurray
Hopefully it still is being tracked by them, otherwise when someone reports it tomorrow they'll have no idea what it is and will need to go through this song and dance again.
It's just not being published on a certain curated list by the MPC.
Thorrez
By who? They say there doesn't exist a database tracking things like this:
>“This incident, along with previous NEOCP postings of the WMAP spacecraft, highlights the deplorable state of availability of positional information on distant artificial objects,” the MPC fumed when it retracted 2007 VN84. “A single source for information on all distant artificial objects would be very desirable.”
jerbearito
> The Minor Planet Electronic Circulars contain information on unusual minor planets, routine data on comets and natural satellites, and occasional editorial announcements.
I assume it's being tracked elsewhere. But not here.
RIMR
You should probably read the article first before you make assumptive comments like this.
perihelions
I'm not sure I buy into the sensationalism behind this story. We're tracking billions[0] of asteroids in interplanetary space, and you say that it's a data-processing hazard that the half-dozen or so deep-space anthropogenic objects aren't submitted to a mandatory international database for de-confliction? That doesn't pass the smell test.
[0] https://www.technologyreview.com/2025/01/01/1108643/vera-c-r...
teruakohatu
> I'm not sure I buy into the sensationalism behind this story
It does seem odd there is an entire article about a single mislabeled-and-then-caught object in a large database that probably has many mislabeled objects that have never been caught.
The position of the object is well documented [1] [2]. It surprises me that there are not some very basic checks done on new objects against other databases.
All that said, I do feel for astronomers, the crazy tempo of rocket launches and satellites makes their job a lot harder and its only going to get harder still but maybe offset by Super Heavy enabling larger and cheaper space telescopes.
TeMPOraL
> It surprises me that there are not some very basic checks done on new objects against other databases.
Hopefully it will be now. Maybe, like with many human endeavors, it kind of fell through the cracks, with everyone independently thinking it's someone else's responsibility and not communicating, until some journalist found out and forced everyone to communicate about it.
Retric
There’s not a lot of man made objects floating in deep space. DeltaV to get outside earths gravity well is just extremely high.
LiamPowell
There's at least 72 according to [1], which does not include upper stages from unmanned missions. You could likely query all of them that have been found from Horizons, but I don't know how to do so off the top of my head.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_in_...
philipwhiuk
This is not the first time it has happened and often they are mistakenly classified as NEOs.
tbrownaw
> mistakenly classified as NEOs.
Is it not an Object that approaches to Near the Earth?
GMoromisato
That's not how definitions work. The IAU defines what "NEO" means and it excludes artificial objects: https://www.iau.org/public/themes/neo/
You may complain that you should be able to derive the definition from the name, but then all names would be as long as their definition, defeating the purpose.
schiffern
I think the issue is that there isn't such a "mandatory international database for de-confliction."
simne
> We're tracking billions[0] of asteroids
This is exaggeration. Really, this type of astronomy is very underfunded, so we're just approach state, when will track just most dangerous objects, which number is just about thousand, just because of budget limitation.
nwallin
There are only a little over a million known asteroids. The link you provided is saying that the Vera Rubin Observatory is expected to find billions of galaxies, and says nothing about how many asteroids it is expected to find.
https://catalina.lpl.arizona.edu/faq/how-many-asteroids-are-...
grajaganDev
>I'm not sure I buy into the sensationalism behind this story.
Agreed - Elon gets clicks especially given his recent "involvement" with the US government.
vkou
When you, as a lobbyist and supplier, are getting an office built for you in the white house, that's a little bit closer than being 'involved'.
fastball
Honestly "astronomers" have really started to annoy me, which surprises me because I love space and astronomy and star-gazing and such. I have bought multiple personal telescopes over the years, so I guess I even qualify as an amateur astronomer. But lately it seems I disagree with astronomers on any intersection of astronomy and politics. I put "astronomers" in quotes because of course I realize that "not all astronomers", but the consensus does seem to be there.
> Satellite internet constellations that provide affordable internet to millions of people bad because it might hurt terrrestrial astronomy.
> Infrastructure projects should not be built in sites that are good for astronomy because astronomy is apparently more important than energy and resource production[1].
> Much ado about nothing because some amateur astronomers thought a Tesla Roadster was an asteroid. Implications that companies are irresonsible / direlict in their duty for not ensuring that astronomers are well-informed.
Just overall I've been getting the feeling over the last couple years that "astronomers" have a severely inflated sense of self-importance. Or maybe I am the problem and I am under-valuing astronomy (or over-valuing everything else).
kanbara
it’s cheaper and more permanent to just lay fibre and copper to provide internet. we don’t need 3000 satellites launched every few years to do so.
i think you’re overinflating elon’s importance. (not that he designs and builds starlink, anyway)
wat10000
Apparently we do, otherwise there wouldn’t be a bunch of people for whom satellite internet is the only option.
Not to mention the difficulty of running fiber or copper to ships and airplanes.
lazide
Permanent yes. But cheaper?
A lot of the places served (as in actual customers) by starlink are in truly remote and difficult to reach places.
I know someone who uses it in the middle of private land surrounded by national forest, 5+ miles from the nearest paved road.
It doesn’t get electricity, and the last quote he was able to get was for $250k+ to attempt to run power from the local utility. But now with Solar….
And he’s not the only one in that region.
Using starlink for dense urban environments? Yeah that makes no sense. It also possibly doesn’t make any sense in suburban environments either.
But dispersed or remote areas? Pretty awesome.
LTE is sometimes a competitor in those situations, but there are a lot of people in those environments that don’t have good line of sight to a cell, but do get plenty of open sky, and Starlink is far superior for them than any other solution.
LTE over these remote areas is also a major capex, and involves a lot of environmental impact.
Hughes/Geo satellite sucks in both latency and bandwidth.
Most LTE data plans are also expensive for this type of thing, as any RV’er will tell you.
In many ways, this solves the ‘everyone must live in the big city to make good money’ problem, if coupled with remote work.
fastball
Where did I mention Elon Musk?
throw310822
> announced the discovery of an unusual asteroid, designated 2018 CN41
Can someone explain why in 2025 they discover an asteroid which gets designated as "2018" and then they delete it when it turns out that it was an object launched in space precisely in 2018?
namrog84
https://www.iau.org/public/themes/naming/
It's initially given a temporary name prior to the now official name.
2018 CN41
Means it's the 41st object identified in the first half of February in 2018.
A is first half of jan. B is 2nd half. Etc.. then the iteration in that section
crusty
I think the question is, how does the 41st object to be discovered in 2018 get that name in 2025?
Clearly there's a missing link to this, as in some guy in a field "finds" an object, submits it, it gets added, it gets identified, it gets removed, and it's actual designation is then used in write-ups as if that name were the one in use before it was identified as not being an object discovered in 2025.
For accuracy, or should say 2025 CN2 (or whatever), aka 2018 CN41, was removed from the database.
spenczar5
Ooh, I know this one! I worked on historical asteroid observations categorization and precovery for a few years.
The MPC has many observations of unidentified moving object candidates. These are called “tracklets” and come from pairs of observations of the same patch of the sky by the same observatory, separated (typically) by a few minutes.
The “isolated tracklet file”, or ITF, is a catalog of all of these unidentified moving objects.
When an identification is made and submitted to the MPC, the MPC back-projects the orbit and checks the ITF for any past observations which might have actually been of this newly identified object.
Then, the designation’s timestamp is of the first matching observation. So in this case the ITF had an observation from back in 2018.
Occasionally, two “objects” turn out to be the same actual physical object, but we learn late. In this case, the MPC does maintain a list of “aliases” of the object, so you might get that “aka” list. But that is not quite what happened here.
wbl
I'm not an expert but my understanding is it takes multiple observations to pin down an orbit and be sure it isn't an existing object. Those observations can be very chance driven.
walrus01
The year and number designator is for known man made object launches. All satellites get a COSPAR ID
It's done in sequential order.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Designator
Even top secret NRO launches get a designator, since it's impossible to hide the launch itself, but its orbital activity and TLE might not be obvious once in space.
simne
To determine object, in most cases need and enough, to determine it's orbit. In case of Near Earth Object, most interest parameters, when it was near Earth and period to next approach.
Looks like, astronomer calculated from single point, this object was approached in 2018, which is launch year, because Roadster don't have long running engines (none of space sails or ion engines), so it's orbit don't changed much after 2018.
- Ion engines or space sails could work many years, so it will not be easy to discover start point from just one known point of current orbit.
markdjacobsen
On a related note, a science fiction short story anthology titled "Derelict" was published in 2021. When they were soliciting stories, I thought long and hard about how to put a creative twist on the topic. I wrote a story about a race to recover Elon's roadster, which made it into the anthology.
Free story: https://s3.us-west-1.amazonaws.com/com.markdjacobsen/Celesti...
Full anthology: https://www.amazon.com/Derelict-Campbell-Jack/dp/1940709407/
userbinator
That headline reads like something from The Onion.
More seriously, if they are tracking objects orbiting near the earth, I think the origin of them shouldn't matter.
Demlmlm
It's tracked as debris and not an asteroid.
It was deleted because it's already tracked
heironimus
So the takeaway I get is that these two databases should be cross linked so this doesn’t happen again. Maybe there’s a community of software developers who could help.
RandomBacon
Quick! Someone write the Falsehoods Programmers Make About Space article.
dentemple
If only there were some sort of article explaining the need for transparency between organizations regarding these things.
GeoAtreides
>After launch on the Falcon-Heavy rocket, it orbited Earth for six hours, until a third burn of the stage two inserted the Tesla Roadster into an interplanetary solar orbit reaching out toward the asteroid belt and having a perihelion of 0.99 AU and an aphelion of ~1.7 AU. This orbit will be stable for several million years.
https://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/spacecraft/display.action?id...
mannykannot
I think it would have been cool for SpaceX to put a teapot in the roadster's trunk.
nancyminusone
Maybe they did. You can't prove that they didn't!
romaaeterna
> Deep space is “largely unregulated,” McDowell told a special-session audience Jan. 14 at the American Astronomical Society’s (AAS) winter meeting in National Harbor, Maryland. “There’s no requirement to file some kind of public flight plan, no equivalent of the TLEs or the corporate data that we get for low-orbit satellites.”
This will be one of my favorite regulatory journalistic scare-quotes going forward.
travisjungroth
Those aren’t scare quotes. That’s just a quote.
titanomachy
They might just be normal quotes.
romaaeterna
Yes, it's a journalistic quote meant to scare, not quotation marks meant to express irony.
throwawaymaths
isn't this a good thing? it sets an exciting lower bound on the effectiveness of citizen science detection efforts, and a confirmation that the techniques are sound
hidroto
I would think that the albedo of the tesla is much higher than the typical asteroid, making it much easier to track.
__MatrixMan__
Your perspective would've made for a much better article.
indus
I read the headline incorrectly as hard delete
But looks they just soft deleted the entry in their database.
johnnyanmac
Would have been interesting if we did just throw a satellite at it to deflect it's course.
Then I remembered we're still probably decades from being able to do such things on demand.
netman21
Interesting fact: University of Southhampton developed 5D disks for dense data storage. The capability was acquired by the Arch Foundation which seeks to preserve data longterm. They donated one of the first 5D disks to Elon Musk who placed it in the red Tesla that he sent into Solar orbit on the first Falcon Heavy booster. The disk contains the Foundation Trilogy by Arthur C. Clarke.
aeve890
>The disk contains the Foundation Trilogy by Arthur C. Clarke.
You mean Asimov?
readthenotes1
Remember the hope?
Seems like an odd move to just delete it. Is it any less worthy of being tracked because it's man made? Wouldn't adding it to the database at least reduce the chance of the same mistake being made again by other astronomers?
Isn't this, like other space junk in such orbits, effectively an "anthropogenic asteroid"? Why not just add them in with a special tag or naming convention to indicate that they're man-made?