Modular PC Design: Sustainable Approach Enhanced Repairability Reduced E-Waste
42 comments
·January 24, 2025eemil
Market forces are driving companies to make more and more highly integrated, glued together macbook clones because consumers demand them. Or at least manufacturers think they do.
Maybe it's time for a class of repairable laptops/desktops, similar to what Intel did with their "Ultrabook" branding a decade ago. Call it an ecobook, and require upgradable storage, RAM, and access to replacement parts for 10 years. Something that lets companies say "this is thicker than a macbook, but not because it's worse".
scarface_74
And then manufacturers will have to not only explain why its thicker, they also have to explain why its heavier, hotter, louder, slower and with worse battery life…
beAbU
PCs are already extremely modular, and they have been modular for multiple decades now.
All Intel needs to do is not refresh the socket with every CPU generation, slap a green sticker on the box, and amp up their marketing to include "green" and "less e-waste" and all that.
They'll be able to virtue signal to the environmentally conscious with minimal capital outlay and whatever this engineering masturbation article is.
znpy
> PCs are already extremely modular, and they have been modular for multiple decades now.
Laptops were fairly modular as well. you could upgrade memory and disks, in theory gpu as well (mxm connectors).
On some older laptops the cpus were socketed, so you could update those as well.
eemil
How about supporting a socket for more than one generation?
My desktop PC from 2018 is still going strong, on account of using the AM4 socket (AMD). That allowed me to upgrade to the 5800X3D a while back, a whole two generations or four years newer than the original CPU.
Pingk
This is the reason I chose to go with AMD's 7000 series for my 2022 build.
I wasn't aware of Intel's limitation when I built my first computer in 2016 so when I wanted to upgrade a few years later I wasn't expecting to need a new motherboard since it still had everything I needed - it felt so wasteful!
Instead I just waited for AM5 based on the longevity for AM4.I'm really hoping AMD support AM5 for a few more generations so I can do the same as you in 2026/7
daveoc64
>How about supporting a socket for more than one generation?
Intel typically seems to support sockets on the desktop for 2-3 generations of CPU:
kubik369
This is unfortunately not true and a result of Intel's obfuscatory tactics. The socket has been the same in subsequent generations, but you needed to buy a new motherboard because the chipset supposedly did not support the newer CPUs [0]. An example of this is the socket 1151 generation. This socket was named 1151-1 and 1151-2 in later years due to this tactic. When Intel was on their high horse (2010-2018) they generally supported 1-2 generations per socket.
[0] https://www.pcgamer.com/modders-get-intels-coffee-lake-cpus-....
znpy
To add to this: some motherboards could support newer cpus via a patch to the bios or embedded controller firmware... meaning that the incompatibilities were/are completely artificial.
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atmanactive
I did the same with Intel 12th gen vs 14th gen.
Elfener
Meanwhile Microsoft is telling everyone to ewaste their perfectly good PCs and buy new ones?
Preventing ewaste like that is more important than designing products like this, in my opinion.
mschild
It doesn't have to be an either or decision. We can do both.
fvv
talking about E-Waste , why modern tv doesn't have external device for the soc ? why I have to bypass the slow tv using a firestick , but the tv anyway become obsolete,
but the tv anyway becomes obsolete, and lacking security updates also potentially a danger for my home network and for the internet in general? in addition to losing some essential functions that only the soc integrated in the tv system can provide? would it have been enough to move the computational part containing the cpu, the memory and the sw on an external hw so as to be able to swap it (proprietary or not, but at least upgradable!)
beAbU
What's the difference between a TV with built in shit smarts and a plugged in firestick, and a TV with no built in smarts and a plugged in firestick?
In the former you get subsidized hardware so the TV is cheaper, in the latter you don't so the hardware is much more expensive.
My TV got a Chromecast on day one out of the box. I have never used it's smart settings, it's never been connected to any network, and it never will be connected to any network. It's remote is in a box or drawer somewhere, never used. I use the Chromecast's little cute remote as it has all the functions I need.
As long as a TV has an HDMI connection, and I can connect my external media box, I will never ever ever use the onboard smarts, but I will definitely continue using the subsidized hardware.
rbanffy
> and it never will be connected to any network
That you know of. It might still connect through other TVs in the vicinity using hidden access points, and reach the internet through those for automatic updates and telemetry and, of course, malware.
nolist_policy
Do you have a source for that?
scarface_74
You want to replace the shit smarts in a TV with a slow underpowered Firestick?
dangus
I’m confused by this, just turn the network off on your TV and use the external device.
There aren’t any essentially functions of a TV that require a network connection.
My smart TV is only connected to the network to upgrade the firmware, and the moment firmware upgrades stop coming out I’m not going to connect it anymore.
fvv
even disconnected from the network, however I have to buy an external device to bypass some functions ( which is a non optimal workaround ),
however the bugs are not solved, however the TV remains very slow and I do not even have the courage to do a reset of the TV sw because I do not know if I could reinstall the sw to a recent version (or it would remain with the first factory beta because the updates are deprecated anyway), it is a 7 year old 65" Sony Bravia for example (led, 4k, i'm good with video/audio I don't want to change it but i'm almost forced to.. ) , the menus are very slow, some recording and playback functions of content from the line crash (since the latest updates) and I often have to restart it.... all for a non-replaceable integrated soc of $50
fvv
maybe If there was a function to disable android running in the background from the tv ( which is the default), the menus and other primary functions would run better, maybe it's possible.. but do really I have to hack the tv ? how many will do that ?
and as I've said, I'm not even confident in performing a firmware reset at this point given that I would probably get only the version released with the tv without any successive update ( anyway not a solution for everyone )
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jmisavage
I do miss user-upgradable RAM and storage, which seems to be absent on many laptops these days. However, I don’t share the same sentiments about the other minor features that have been integrated onto the motherboard. Anyone else remember squeezing in a modem, network card, SoundBlaster, and a video card into their case? Or the frustration of discovering that the power supply couldn’t reliably power all those components. Or wanting to upgrade your CPU only for them to change the socket again.
What I really want is something like the Samsung Dex, where you can dock a portable device into something and make it more powerful.
gessha
Some of the newest laptops now have LPCAMM2 memory which is user upgradable.
Also, I would so much rather change the motherboard/PCU on my laptop than get the latest unit my manufacturer has released.
I spent a good amount of money on my current laptop in 2016 and often times I’m reluctant to upgrade because I would have to pay a similar amount or downgrade.
chneu
In terms of the sound card, nic, etc, all of these components have essentially reached parity or the point where nobody is really upgrading them. Back in the day your sound card could be regularly upgraded, along with nic and whatnot. Nobody is doing that nowadays outside of niche circumstances.
Ram has held on because it's been increasing in capacity like crazy, and software has taken advantage of that.
Samsung Dex is great, tbh. It easily outperforms most Chromebooks and is really simple to use.
gessha
I’ve recently wanted to upgrade my network card to support the latest WiFi standards but the upgrade cycle is definitelu longer.
Ekaros
What is going on in that header image? Data destruction? You would want to do any data recovery inside a hood with very good filtering...
rbanffy
I would like to see some OCP designs leaking out of hyperscaler datacenters and pop up as desktops or deskside designs.
Right now there isn’t any decent looking piece of kit to turn any 5u rack server into a deskside. HP had it with their Itanium workstations. We need more creative designers.
karamanolev
The issue is not with the creativity of the designers. It is with corporate incentives and consumer demand, mostly.
iszomer
You want a 5U with H200 on your desk, not minding the rest of the necessities that go along with it? How about an 88x SAS drive array crammed in that same space?
yapyap
Bit late, seems like they’re doing this as a stunt to try and stay above ARM but I do appreciate it.
snvzz
Intel, responsible for widespread use of non-ECC memory, as well as enforcing a new socket every one or two CPU generations.
Infamous for recent two consecutive generations of self-destroying CPUs (13th and 14th gen).
What a load of bull.
dangus
ECC memory is 100% irrelevant.
karamanolev
Kind of, but not 100%. At least not in the case where you get a machine with non-ECC RAM and later need something more workstation-class with ECC RAM for whatever reason (scientific, research and whatnot).
But in general it speaks to the anti-consumer behavior of Intel.
snvzz
Bold claim.
I will just highlight that Linus Torvalds disagrees[0], and that this sort of thing[1] happens whenever there's a geomagnetic storm.
0. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/01/linus-torvalds-blame...
We hit the opposite issue with our samsung washing machine (we plan to never buy another samsung product because of multiple issues with this thing and their support).
It has 5 different “modular” control boards, and when one fails, it tells you which one. That seems great until you realize the boards are > $300, and the error codes point you to the wrong boards (edit: and they don’t accept returns of spare parts)
This created 100’s of pounds of ewaste. The washing machine is 4 years old.
There is something to be said for miniaturization and consolidation of components. If the damn thing had one board that cost $400, then we would have to throw out the whole machine. It’d also have simpler wiring harnesses, etc.