Bunkers in Albania
37 comments
·January 16, 2025qez2
lormayna
A father of a guy that I know was an engineer and I was part of the team that designed the highway between Tirana and Valona. Enver decided to arrest all of them because they were conspiring against the state and the highway was just a landing area for US airplanes to invade the country. He was really paranoid about this stuff
UltraSane
He seems more like a moron.
stuckkeys
That is wild. Enver was a piece of work for sure.
MichaelRo
Since we're at it, I read a theory that Albanians may be the descendants of Dacians, from the Roman province: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Dacia
Their language is unique in Europe and probably originates in the Thrakian, Illyrian, and Dacian languages. With the important mention that one must not apply today's assumptions of a unified language when referring to something as "Dacian", think more of a situation like in today's Dagestan, where on a surface of 50,000 square kilometers, 3 million people speak no less than 40 languages.
The theory is that during the Roman retreat from Dacia, the population (estimated to as low as 100,000 and as high of 500,000 people, so not exactly a Biblical exodus), migrated to south of Danube and eventually today's location. The toponymy is strangely Albanian, like even the name of the Romanian capital "Bucharest" means "beautiful is" in Albanian.
Spagbol
I had never heard of Enver Hoxha until I listened to the episodes about him on the Real Dictators podcast. Very wild stuff. I find it really fascinating and rather sobering that these invasive authoritarian governments can one day take root and control most or all of the rest of your life. I fear that people's complacency or thoughts that "surely it can't happen here" are part of what lets them rise in the first place, and I wonder just how quickly you can find yourself inside of one.
duxup
I fear a lot of people are happy to look the other way when “my guy” is doing something, especially when it seems to be directed at whatever they fear.
That and I fear most people really don’t have any principles when push comes to shove.
IncreasePosts
Well, let's look at what was happening in Albania.
Since forever: Ruled by ottoman empire
...along comes the 20th century...
1912: We declare independence!
1914: Let's pick a king...
1925: Let's pick a new king...
1939: I guess the Italians are king now...
1944: Communism, we're all kings!
1946: Hoxha is the king of kings
thih9
1991: nope, let’s elect a parliament
1997: one more time and without pyramid schemes[1]
2009: nato
2014: official eu candidate
[1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_schemes_in_Albania
ajxs
Albania is definitely worth visiting. BUNK'ART in Tirana is an easy way to see the bunkers for yourself.
Somewhat related: Famous Russian urbex photographer Lana Sator is still stuck in Albania, after being arrested for espionage while documenting Albania's abandoned cold war military infrastructure: https://archive.is/o7rgB
For what it's worth, she is a well known photographer. I've been following her work since the early 2010s.
mastax
> The construction of prefabricated bunkers alone cost an estimated two percent of net material product, and in total the bunkers cost more than twice as much as the Maginot Line in France, consuming three times as much concrete.
Incredible.
mastazi
I love Albania, for reasons related to my job I used to travel there multiple times a year until around 2010.
Those bunkers are absolutely everywhere, even right in the middle of nowhere (I guess that's useful if you happen to get lost in the wilderness while hiking).
In towns and cities they have been sometimes repurposed, e.g. I remember seeing that someone created a small cafe on the beach using one of the larger bunkers.
The problem with reusing them is that the vast majority of the bunkers are of the smaller type (mostly below ground level, and on the inside there is barely enough room for a couple of people) and it's hard to find a new purpose for those.
maxglute
Rare Earth - The 750,000 Bunkers of Albania
bruce511
I've not been to Albania yet, so I can't comment from observation, but I'm surmising that most all off these bunkers would be pretty useless militarily anyway.
A bunker, by itself, is not much of a defense. It kinda advertises the defender position. Without writing a paper on the subject, the short version is that they're useful as part of a defensive plan, occupied by troops trained in their use.
Having a random bunker, unsupported, in the middle if nowhere is not useful from a defensive point of view.
The_Colonel
> It kinda advertises the defender position.
Which can be a point. What do you do if you're a foot soldier and such a bunker is on your way? First, you stop. Maybe your platoon tries to find a way around it, maybe you call reinforcements (direct fire) to take it out, maybe you set up a heavy machine gun to suppress it while you cross it. But all of this takes time, which is one of the main purposes of such defensive structures - to slow the enemy down. Interestingly, such a bunker will partially work in this role even if it's unoccupied, since making sure it is in fact empty will still take time. Now consider that there's almost a million of such bunkers slowing you down. You also have to consider the era, today they'd be an easier target than in the 1970s.
bruce511
If it's just a random box you move left or right and keep going. Sure there might be a conversation, but frankly it's not gonna slow the army down more than a smoke break will.
phil21
The density of these things needs to be seen to truly grasp the scale.
Assuming they were actually all manned and able to provide interlocking fire as designed (a large assumption) - there would be no moving left or right. There would simply be another bunker or three in your next chosen path.
esperent
> would be pretty useless militarily anyway
There's the commonly shared story about them that it turned out soldiers can't shoot from the smaller ones without going deaf, even when using ear protection.
I don't know if it's true or not, but having been in one of them, it seems likely. A concrete dome is pretty much the perfect shape to reflect all the sound waves right back at you.
ardit33
Most bunkers were in line of 5, and connected by ditches/trenches. So, they almost were never by themselves (unless in some isolated aerea), but in lines, and connected to a network of trenches. As the war in Ukraine shows, trenches are still useful.
There was also communication lines, (hard telephone lines), in ditches about 1m deep, in order to survive nuclear / emp attacks.
When I was a little kid, we'd play hide and seek in those bunkers, or we'd play 'castle take over' with self made wooden swords, romans vs illyrians as kids. (Or Albanians vs Turks). Which team conquered the most bunkers, would win.
They were fun as a kid, but we had to watch out for wild animals (or snakes), take refuge on those bunkers.
Now most of them are being scraped, to recoup the metal, so there are few left.
szszrk
Ok, but wouldn't that be also true if you substitute every "bunker" and "defence" word with "tank" and "attack"?
I don't see a goal of your comment.
dzink
The problem with centralized totalitarian/socialist/dictatorial governments is that they can be hijacked by an idea and over-execute on it with no feedback from the people, until the resources really needed are blown out. In capitalism, companies specialize on human needs and if a need goes away, investments can go down rapidly, unless the feedback loop is guarded by some government regulation. But when government is doing the investing, the whims or corruption of politicians has no feedback loop.
matznerd
Not sure why Albanian bunkers are on the front of HN, but I've been living in Albania/Kosovo for the last couple of years working to use nickel hyperaccumulator plants to mine nickel (phytomining), while removing carbon with olivine minerals (enhanced rock weathering), with my company Metalplant...
I can confirm the bunkers are real. Albanians are some of the nicest people you will meet and are very friendly. Pretty much every stereotype you may have heard about them is wrong (except that they love Mercedes, that is 100% real). The country is beautiful with mountains in the North to beaches in the south that are pretty much the same as Greece and Italy (though rocky), with 3 Star Hotels for tens of Euros per night (they use a currency called Lek which is ~100:1 euro).
Everyone in the country seemingly knows each other and they are all like one big family. You'll notice things differ from other European countries in that they don't like lock up chairs from cafes, or have big like metal gates at bars and open air restuarnts. After hours everything is just like wide open its kind of wild to see. No one locks car doors, there is almost no petty crime, women will get up from the table to go smoke a cigarette outside and leave their purse at the table, etc...
The Albanian language is unique as well, look up a language tree and you'll see its the only one on its branch, they call it Shqip (and never Albanian, which was very confusing to me at first). Though nearly all of the young people speak English, and a good amount up to middle age, but not the much older people... One thing you would never know either is how much Albanians love America especially relative to how much Americans know about Albania.
Albanians have a deep gratitude to Americans because for 2000+ years they were stuck between the Roman and Ottoman Empires and had been fighting to protect their territory and keep their culture alive. But after the Ottoman Empire fell and WW1 was over they were occupied by Italy and others, and the "Great Powers" were about to carve up their territory. But at the League of Nations in 1919, Woodrow Wilson intervened and made sure they had a sovereign state.
So back to the bunkers finally, after WWII Albania was allied with the Stalinist communists and Enver Hoxha (who they call the "Dictator"), became increasingly paranoid about invasion from all sides including the Russians and NATO, so he started building these 700,000 bunkers. Some of them are small enough for only a couple of people, and whats crazy is where we are up in the mountains, you see just very small ones up a hill and in random spots. Later on, Hoxa allied with Chinese communists to keep Russia out, and then it stayed a closed country until the early 1990s, which explains a lot about why everyone feels treats each other like family and most outsiders don't know really know about Albania...Some people compare them to being a North Korea of Europe, though I don't like this description, but they were isolated and had to become self-dependent including growing nearly all of their own food etc.
But again, it is an amzing place that welcomes foreign tourists, especially Americans. I first traveled there at the end of 2020, during peak pandemic winter, and on the travel map of places you could go, it was one of the only countries that was Green and accepting Americans...
Okay that's a lot of fun facts about Albania. AMA on any others.
esperent
> Pretty much every stereotype you may have heard about them is wrong
I went there about ten years ago, walking across the border on a small road from Macedonia. The Macedonia border office was small but tidy. Then there was a 100m no man's land, then a Welcome to Albania sign that was full of bullet holes, and a table of Albanian border guards drinking and playing cards. Super friendly guys.
We walked about 5km into the local town, passing tons of these bunkers. Nearly every single car and truck that passed us was a Mercedes, except for the police cars which were tiny battered Fiats.
Can confirm the people we met were incredibly friendly, and the place felt very welcoming and nothing happened to make me feel unsafe.
However, I have heard some crazy stories from another friend who travelled there more extensively that make me think, while it's a relatively safe country as a tourist, it won't be uneventful if you stay there a while, especially if you get off the normal tourist track.
Given that most of the stereotypes I'd heard about Albania up to that point were "bunkers, lawlessness, and Mercedes but lovely people", I'd say that it absolutely did live up to these. However, a lot can change in a decade so maybe it's different now. Or maybe we just went to different parts of the country.
The_Colonel
To avoid confusion, the Mercedes cars are from 80s or 90s. Not new ones, which are completely unaffordable by most locals.
stuckkeys
Not sure what you mean by that, but my last trip was last year, and it was new models also. Mercedes is like the Theme there. Most lovable car in Albania.
pitaj
I'm visiting Tirana in March. Any must-see suggestions?
What was your favorite Albanian dish?
lormayna
Tirana is nice, I suggest to go around for the Blocku (the neighborhood that during the communism was only for the nomenclature) it's really cozy. Just outside Tirana there is an area with several artificial lakes, you should go there for a relaxing day. If you have more time, I suggest to visit Girokaster: it's a castle city 2 hours far from Tirana, where Enver Oxha was born.
For food I really suggested a restaurant called Oda, not far from Skanderberg square in Tirana: it's a traditional Albanian house where you can taste all the Albanian dishes.
quasse
What is the general view on Enver Hoxha by today's Albanian population?
tamentis
My wife is Albanian, I lived there in 2021/2022.
I found that many people think positively of the regime and its dictator. The population was ill-equipped to deal with a market economy when the regime fell, and many Albanians believe the country has gone down a very chaotic path. They thought the dictatorship provided more structure. My grandmother-in-law (in her 60s), whose family suffered greatly when Hoxha took over, is one such Albanian who thinks positively of him, despite how the regime treated them. This feels a bit like Stockholm syndrome.
Der_Einzige
This mass Stockholm syndrome shit that every post communist country goes through with their hitler-tier leaders is evidence for me that god doesn't exist, and that we deserve the leaders we get.
I swear to god, we could liberate North Korea and they'd turn around and cry about how good it was during the Kim era because apparently we humans are deeply masochistic to our core. We want the boot stomping on our face forever.
lormayna
I am Italian, I know many Albanians and I visited the country too. As far as I know there is still somebody that feel nostalgia about the dictator, but 90% of the people are really happy about the democracy and they want to join the UE. Just to give an anedoct: in front of Berat there is a mountain where Oxha wrote with trees his name Enver. After the end of communism, they changed in Never.
vjerancrnjak
Now they’re building hundreds of gas stations every 100 meters. Gas stations with very unique architecture.
andrewfromx
[flagged]
alwa
I’m surprised at the length of this gag, drawing on what seemed to me to be a particularly robust Wikipedia entry. Is the point that the article strikes you as juvenile, or that you feel like it unfairly makes touristic spectacle of something more complex than the treatment here reflects?
And without intending offense—is this a work of LLM? I’m curious because of the earnestly, completeness, and the slight flavor of “how do you do, fellow kids” in lines like “Talk about a plot twist!”
stordoff
> And without intending offense—is this a work of LLM?
I suspect so, as ChatGPT generates a fairly similar output[1] from the prompt "put this into dialog form between two American 20 year olds: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bunkers_in_Albania". As an example (this was part of the first output it produced):
OP: "Jake: So get this - there was this leader named Enver Hoxha who was super paranoid about getting invaded. We're talking an average of almost 6 bunkers per square kilometer. They're literally everywhere - beaches, mountains, cities, even in hotel gardens!"
ChatGPT: "Jake: Okay, so get this: back in the Cold War, Albania’s leader, this guy Enver Hoxha, went totally paranoid. He thought everyone was gonna invade—like, NATO, the Soviets, literally everyone.
I retried the prompt twice - the first time[2], "so get this" was used again, and the second time[3] used the name "Jake" again. Hardly proof of LLM use, but it'd be a weird coincidence if not IMO.
[1] https://chatgpt.com/share/678dcdaa-bda4-8011-a3a9-a5d03e7c9d...
[2] https://chatgpt.com/share/678dcf87-869c-8011-8727-8e370bde6f...
[3] https://chatgpt.com/share/678dcfd5-f87c-8011-b1ff-dca4dfd5eb...
My dad was a military analyst in the Balkans in the 90s. I am telling this story second-hand, but I'll try to get it correct. While in Albania, my dad shared a taxi with an older Albania gentleman. The man recounted his time working in the Albanian military in the 60s. His platoon had constructed a large number of bunkers, more than any other platoon. The dictator Enver Hoxha was slated to visit, to give them an award for building the most bunkers in the whole country. When Enver arrived, he walked around, and looked at a bunch of the bunkers they had constructed. He pointed at the bunkers. "Look! You have not used enough rebar! Obviously, you are trying to jeopardize the security of our nation, by neglecting to use enough rebar! You are traitors to Albania!" He swiftly sentenced the entire platoon of young men straight to 30 years in prison, which they approximately served. This man, after serving this time, had just gotten freed from jail. The taxi was transporting him from the halfway house.