A laptop stand made from a single sheet of recycled paper
221 comments
·January 11, 2025xelxebar
vismit2000
Miura-ori fold covered very nicely in this video at timestamp 34:10: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p02DtmyQhU
eleveriven
I think I spent too much time watching the video of it folding and unfolding.
qup
I hope my brain stows your comment safely away until the next opportunity.
calmbonsai
I'm reminded of similarly useless "sustainable cardboard furniture" that came out about a decade ago.
On the positive side, kudos to whomever in marketing/pr at the design firm got this useless product so much press.
This is just the sort of "win" that a design consulting shop loves to have for actual briefs that lead to real moving-the-needle revenue. One example would be SmartDesign's modular slip-on "S-Grips" that led to the iconic vegetable peeler that then bled into the "design language" of every product at OXO.
wy35
Didn't know about the SmartDesign/OXO vegetable peeler, very interesting rabbit hole to go down.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90239156/the-untold-story-of-the...
snowfarthing
Indeed, it's an interesting rabbit hole!
I liked the part where they were looking for someone to manufacture the handles, and the Japanese machinist said "If he could make it, I can make it!".
Indeed, having gone down the rabbit hole of machining (both to see if it would be a viable hobby and if it could even be a career), this was the attitude of the shop teacher: "if you can think it, you can probably make it". I am far more surprised that neither the American nor the Taiwanese manufacturers said this. Then again, perhaps it was because management didn't talk to the guys who made things!
(Now that I think of it, had they done that, perhaps they would have gotten the answer "We can do it, but the fins will wear down the tool too fast, at least until we can figure out a better material for the tools!" instead of "Nope, we can't do that!")
tiborsaas
I had a log seat style cardboard furniture for years, it was great when I needed something light but capable to hold stuff.
johnmaguire
This is a bit of a random place to mention it, but while I very much like OXO goods, IKEA makes the best (in my opinion) potato peeler for $5 - cheaper than anything OXO makes: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/ikea-365-vaerdefull-potato-peel...
pomian
Brilliant write up. I remember using the old ones, and only last year found the oxo model. truly amazing. Many important lessons in product design in that article; with the most important in the last sentence - it has to work!
JadeNB
I think you meant to respond to your grandparent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42686370, not your parent https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42686583.
croisillon
that's something i never understood: why do they sell peelers with a movable part? like we are meant to peel in curves and expect the knife to follow the curve beautifully? the fixed ones are easier to use and easier to clean!
johnmaguire
The hinge allows you to peel in both directions (i.e. forwards and backwards across your potato/carrot/etc. without lifting the peeler.) It also means it can track a rough surface more easily. I haven't had any issues with the hinge, and I use a dishwasher for cleaning - what issues have you run into?
eleveriven
The movable blade makes peeling oddly shaped veggies or fruits so much smoother
HPsquared
I find the movable ones cut a thinner peel, probably the blade is held at a more optimal angle if it can find its own position, or maybe my particular movable one is just better-made than my fixed one.
mp05
Why are they peeling those beautiful golden potatoes? Skin is the best part.
Ekaros
Only way to get cardboard to work in furniture and such is to laminate all sides... And even then it is only acceptable. Albeit very light.
brudgers
Cardboard furniture brought to mind Frank Gehry:
https://www.vitra.com/en-us/product/wiggle?srsltid=AfmBOooT-...
Expressing patronage of sustainability is emotionally equivalent to expressing patronage of artistry. Functionally a $10 chair from Goodwill will support a person equally well (and also be an expression of patronage for a person with options).
nordsieck
> I'm reminded of similarly useless "sustainable cardboard furniture" that came out about a decade ago.
Apparently no one learned their lesson, because the cardboard olympic village beds were also (allegedly) pretty terrible.
nox101
MUJI used to have lots of that (20-25yrs ago). Shelves made from cardboard tubes, etc... You could tell, one bump and it would be destroyed. I think they got rid of most of them.
kazinator
I liked the stacked cardboard computer cases. Remember those?
latexr
The article is seemingly outdated. The cheapest one I could find in the store was 29 USD. In Euros, it’s 36.37. And of course, you still have to pay for shipping. From Korea.
This seems quite absurd. Whatever good you do the planet by using something out of recycled paper (thumbs up on the idea) will surely be offset by all the logistics of the shipping.
This should have been a tutorial, not a product.
bko
I often see "recycled" or similar as a signal for more expensive.
My favorite was when I saw a jam that touted "upcycled" strawberries. When I looked into it, it basically meant that it was made from beat up ugly strawberries that would have been used for animal feed. Surely there would be cost savings in using reject fruit, right? No, an 8oz jar retails for over $8 compared to about half that to an organic no sugar added alternative (I think its cheaper since I last looked though)
They even get certified that they use the most undesirable fruit that they can find!
https://mleverything.substack.com/p/what-are-upcycled-strawb...
jdietrich
>When I looked into it, it basically meant that it was made from beat up ugly strawberries
That's true for basically all processed food that contains fruit or vegetables, for obvious economic reasons. The stuff that looks good goes to the supermarkets who care very much about shelf appeal, the rest goes to the processors who absolutely don't.
nosioptar
Stuff like Pringles are made from the nastiest rotting potatoes in the planet. It's been 20 years since the last time I set foot in a potato plant, I can still smell it.
analog31
Oddly enough it now means that canned tomatoes are better than fresh.
bko
Exactly, which is why I found it so entertaining. The idea that the Smuckers CEO is paying extra for beautiful fruit right before it get pulverized into jam is laughable. It's the market and price system taking care of the problem and opportunistic brands making up a problem that doesn't exist and charging users a premium to solve the non-existent problem
null
yoavm
Sometimes it's a marketing stunt, but often recycling is more expensive. I mean, recycling a plastic bag is probably more expensive than making one. The unfortunate reality of our financial system is that it often rewards people for doing the wrong thing.
bko
If recycling is more expensive, isn't recycling the wrong thing?
The price isn't some random number attached to an activity. It captures the various costs associated with it and is helpful in directing behaviors for this very reason.
Recycling is more expensive, it likely means that there are associated costs (e.g. transportation, sorting, cleaning, processing, etc) that make it less economical than just throwing it in a landfill. And all these additional costs likely make it the "wrong" decision since they likely contribute to carbon emissions or otherwise wasteful use of the earth's resources
userbinator
I mean, recycling a plastic bag is probably more expensive than making one.
Collect enough, and you can melt them into solid blocks that could be used like this laptop stand. Recycling common plastic of the same type (PE, PP) is actually easily done with commonly available equipment, unlike paper.
eleveriven
It prioritizes short-term cost efficiency over long-term sustainability
adrianN
Recycling a plastic bag is not necessarily better for the environment than burning it.
askvictor
> Sometimes it's a marketing stunt, but often recycling is more expensive. I mean, recycling a plastic bag is probably more expensive than making one.
Depends on the price of oil. Metal recycling is far more cost effective that extracting from ore. Glass, too, is very economical to recycle.
Plastic recycling was never about recycling, it was to convince people to use plastics.
dowager_dan99
not really for paper though... We've largely solved efficient recycling of even complex mixed paper/plastic/coatings, a piece like this should be less expensive, and not shipped 1/2 way around the world to a market that has massive amounts of both new and old paper.
userbinator
I often see "recycled" or similar as a signal for more expensive.
That's just because of this new wave of eco-virtue-signaling that's become popular in the past few years. Before that, recycled meant lower quality and cheaper.
See also: "vegan butter" or "plant-based butter" instead of "hydrogenated vegetable oil".
aziaziazi
While I get your point, some new plants butters don’t contained hydrogenated oils. See my favorite brand, Flora:
https://www.flora.com/en-us/floraplant/our-products/salted-p...
snowfarthing
I find this particular notion to be rather weird. I cannot see how it's a "waste" if something's fed to animals instead of humans!
snailmailstare
It is a horrible waste to produce any strawberries from an environmental perspective compared to the least sensitive feed crops so feeding them to animals is more of a better than nothing while getting someone out of the market for the grades of strawberries that drive production is not. But any mediocre quality strawberry jam probably does that.
latexr
Despite the quotes, the person you’re replying to didn’t use the word “waste” nor have they claimed using that fruit to feed animals would be bad. In short, they didn’t make the argument you’re against.
However, in the interest of good faith discussion, I’ll offer a rebuttal to the argument you are making. The logic applies when (and this is very important) that food goes to farm animals which will be slaughtered of humans to eat.
“Waste” isn’t really the right word, more like “inefficient”, in the sense that the amount of food which takes for an animal to mature is orders of magnitude greater than what you take from it. In other words, you could feed significantly more people if they ate what you’re feeding the animal.
When you couple that with the environmental impact of raising animals as food, including deforestation and land use, which in turn affects us as well, it becomes a major issue.
HPsquared
Opportunity cost, mostly.
harrison_clarke
it also seems like a very small savings. the thing sitting on top of it is full of lithium, cobalt, etc. so why should i care if it's sitting on a bit of plastic/aluminum/wood?
that said, a tutorial to turn the shipping box for your laptop (or a flat of diet coke) into a stand would be good. useful in a pinch
edit: keyboard box might be the best box to print the fold lines on. you need that for a minimally ergo laptop setup anyway
eleveriven
Maybe a hybrid approach (like adding a tutorial) can be valid. Because not everyone has the time to make their own laptop stand
andrewflnr
> This should have been a tutorial, not a product.
I love this. More tutorials, fewer products.
p_j_w
>Whatever good you do the planet by using something out of recycled paper (thumbs up on the idea) will surely be offset by all the logistics of the shipping.
The plastic laptop stand you by probably also had to be shipped halfway around the world, so this one is probably a wash.
forinti
> This should have been a tutorial, not a product.
It doesn't seem too difficult to make something similar.
blharr
I mean, it's a good idea, I just wouldn't buy the one in Korea to get shipped over here. I don't get the cynicism, someone in Korea had this idea and made the product, probably intended for other people in Korea where the shipping isn't an issue?
latexr
> probably intended for other people in Korea
The seller is called “grape lab”, with a “g” as the logo, and “Sustainable Design Lab” as the tagline. Everything in English. How is that “intended for other people in Korea”?
kevingadd
All the embellishments on it seem like they probably involved operating imprinting machines or printing ink onto the paper, too.
pcblues
A couple of points.
It is not aesthetically pleasing at all, which is important to me, for whatever neurological reason. Also, I consider a laptop stand as just a device to raise the screen to a better ergonomic level on the understanding that an external keyboard and mouse will be used to operate the device.
Otherwise, in a laptop stand, ergonomic keyboard use requirements pull the incline towards level, and ergonomic monitor height requirements pull the incline upwards, so there is no healthy angle for a laptop stand.
As already mentioned by andrei_says_, typing fingers should be below the wrist (as correct piano playing has proved for centuries).
dotBen
Stands like this have to be paired with an external keyboard.
Raising the monitor so that the top is as close to eye level as possible (while maintaining a straight back) is better orthopedicly.
It's impossible to achieve this and a good keyboard posture, so you must introduce an external keyboard.
Without an external keyboard, there is no value in using a stand, you might as well just keep the laptop in a neutral position.
seb1204
I use my glasses case to raise the back of the computer. It adds a gap between table and computer. The rubber nobben on the underside of the laptop prevent the glasses case from slipping. This raises the notebook to a nice angle and the keyboard is still usable for me.
kjkjadksj
Shouldn’t the monitor be centered at eye level? Or is it worse to look a little bit up than down?
dotBen
I have had office desks professional adjusted by an occupational safety orthopedic person and that has always been the advice I was told.
Another piece of advice was that on a standing desk your forearms should not be parallel to the ground but slightly below your elbow.
toast0
You can't get ergonomics with a (modern) laptop keyboard. Reaching over the touchpad is at best, a compromise. Unfortunately keyboard at the edge + sidemounted trackball is long dead, and keyboard at the edge + pointing stick didn't last a lot longer.
Last I used a laptop at a desk on the regular, state of the art laptop stands were reams of printer paper. Worst case, you need to actually use the paper in the printer and you're out a stand until you restock.
duderific
I often observe people at my office using the laptop keyboard and monitor exclusively, while sitting at their desks, even though we are all given external monitors, keyboards and mice.
I guess they are young and their bodies don't hurt yet.
pmontra
I've been doing that for the last 18 years and I started when I was older than most people here. I never liked the mandatory external monitor and keyboard at the company I was working for before becoming self employed: I preferred to look down to a screen, not up or level.
segasaturn
I like it because it's ugly.
oofbaroomf
Vladimir Horiwitz begs to differ.
nemoniac
Or save yourself $22: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR5G1HFXY1U
scarface_74
On top of all of the other criticisms, this isn’t functionally what I want. I still would end up looking down to see the laptop.
I guess it’s better for people who only work on laptops and don’t want to have separate keyboards and pointing devices.
I travel a lot and I use a Roost laptop stand
https://www.therooststand.com/
A standard Apple keyboard and mouse, and a portable USB powered monitor that gets power and video from one USB cable and monitor stand
alias_neo
I got a roost when they launched, still have it, practical and durable, I imagine I'll always have it.
The problem with this paper one is that the paper will wear within a couple of years, and if you spill your coffee on it or anything like that or put it down on a coffee-ring stain, it's straight in the bin.
I fail to see the value in something made from recyclable that is essentially disposable rather than a roost which can be made from recycled plastic and last forever.
The roost also only cost about double to triple this to buy.
EDIT: I see the roost is quite a bit more expensive now, but longevity and ergonomics wise I'd say still well worth it.
gruez
Why is it so expensive? It looks and functions exactly like a dozen other similar stands on aliexpress.
alias_neo
Honestly, I don't know, I bought it a decade ago when it launched.
It was a fair bit cheaper, I want to say more like $60, I suppose "inflation" is the reason.
EDIT: 2016 I bought my roost stand, it's still good as new.
daanavitch
The Nexstand is the most popular alternative, it's around 30 dollars.
scarface_74
I’m not going to buy a knock off good from Aliexpress for a product that I have used everyday for the past two years across over two dozen cities.
VyseofArcadia
A single (very large) sheet of (unusually thick) paper.
laweijfmvo
made from many sheets of recycled paper! agree that the description is a stretch.
fedeb95
22$ for recycled paper? I bet an origami can be designed to do just the same, then made using free paper lying around.
andrei_says_
It blows my mind that stands like this one as well as keyboards are designed with an incline requiring constant tension in the wrists.
The natural position of the fingers when typing is below the wrist not above it.
Suppafly
They are meant to be used with an external keyboard and mouse, you don't need a stand to use a laptop normally.
leptons
Except in the 5th photo they show someone using the laptop's touchpad while on the stand.
This seems very uncomfortable to me as resting your hands on the pointed edges of the folded paper seems like an awful user experience.
jerlam
Technically, yes, but a large number of people are working on tables that are already too high, so positive tilt is required to keep their wrists in line with their forearms.
A laptop stand that elevates the laptop, placed on a table that is already too high, requires even more positive tilt.
And don't forget the large number of people who don't know how to touch-type and need clear visibility of all the keycaps.
GlacierFox
Yeah it's weird, I have a static wooden one similar to this. Looked good but the incline was so sharp that it was just awkward to use.
Not sure what the thought process is behind the design of most of these things.
bluedino
I love my Rain mStand. It's made of cast aluminum, looks great, works great, and I've had it for....15 years?
At some point I'm sure I could easily recycle it.
stronglikedan
Very nice, just not very portable, but definitely recyclable.
marban
They have the foldable mBar Pro now.
impure
I don't see much point to this, it barely props up your laptop at all. You're still going to get tech neck. I recently got a nexstand, external keyboard, and mouse and it has been amazing.
tomasz_fm
Nexstand is the way, I got one and never looked back. I use a touchpad instead of a mouse though.
harrall
Or buy the OG, the Roost.
It's pricier but lighter and more compact.
langsoul-com
Looks like NEX stand made a new version, K1 Carbon Fiber, which is lighter than og roost.
However, more expensive than it so depends if shredding those grams is worth it or not
kiririn
Never heard of nexstand but it looks suboptimal for keeping the small laptop screen as close as possible to your eyes
My preferred design is like https://amzn.eu/d/0KB8nGM (2x U shapes of metal), which lets you have the keyboard underneath the laptop , so the laptop is as close to the edge of the desk as if you weren’t using an external keyboard
crazygringo
You don't want a small laptop screen as close as possible to your eyes. That's asking for eyestrain and problems in the long-term.
If you're having trouble seeing clearly, you should use glasses and/or increase the system-wide font size (or decrease the "resolution").
loloquwowndueo
If you need the laptop screen to be that close, maybe you need glasses.
I have a Roost stand and with my keyboard in front of it, the distance is mostly right (13” screen and it’s more comfortable if I scale fonts up by 20% or so). It’s actually closer to my eyes than my desktop setup (24” screen mounted on monitor arm)
ArlenBales
Those are kind of ugly, at least for MacBooks.
Rain Design's mStand is my favorite, blends in perfectly.
crazygringo
They are, but they're portable. They collapse and you throw it in your bag.
The mStand is beautiful, but it's not portable.
infecto
Does anyone remember when standing desks started taking off…maybe 2016ish and there was that company making cardboard props to convert your desk into a standing desk. Amazing how well those worked for being cardboard.
Looks like a Miura fold: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miura_fold. When going to theme parks and the like, I love folding the physical maps like this. It's nice that the maps stay rigid when fully open, and the single-motion for opening and closing is glorious.