NeuralSVG: An Implicit Representation for Text-to-Vector Generation
73 comments
·January 8, 2025vipshek
This is excellent!
I think the utility of generating vectors is far, far greater than all the raster generation that's been a big focus thus far (DALL-E, Midjourney, etc). Those efforts have been incredibly impressive, of course, but raster outputs are so much more difficult to work with. You're forced to "upscale" or "inpaint" the rasters using subsequent generative AI calls to actually iterate towards something useful.
By contrast, generated vectors are inherently scalable and easy to edit. These outputs in particular seem to be low-complexity, with each shape composed of as few points as possible. This is a boon for "human-in-the-loop" editing experiences.
When it comes to generative visuals, creating simplified representations is much harder (and, IMO, more valuable) than creating highly intricate, messy representations.
gwern
Have you looked at https://www.recraft.ai/ recently? The image quality of their vector outputs seems to have gotten quite good, although you obviously still wouldn't want to try to generate densely textured or photographic-like images like Midjourney excels at. (For https://gwern.net/dropcap last year or before, we had to settle for Midjourney and create a somewhat convoluted workflow through Recraft; but if I were making dropcaps now, I think the latest Recraft model would probably suffice.)
esperent
Link to their vector page, since the main page makes them look like yet another AI image generator:
https://www.recraft.ai/ai-image-vectorizer
The quality does look quite amazing at first glance. How are the vectors to work with? Can you just open them in illustrator and start editing?
gwern
No, I actually was referring to their native vector AI image generator, not their vectorizer - although the vectorizer was better than any other we found, and that's why we were using it to convert the Midjourney PNG dropcaps into SVGs
(The editing quality of the vectorized ones were not great, but it is hard to see how they could be good given their raster-style appearance. I can't speak to the editing quality of the native-generated ones, either in the old obsolete Recraft models or the newer ones, because the old ones were too ugly to want to use, and I haven't done much with the new one yet.)
cochlear
I couldn't agree more. I feel that the block-coding and rasterized approaches that are ubiquitous in audio codecs (even the modern "neural" ones) are a dead-end for the fine-grained control that musicians will want. They're just fine for text-to-music interfaces of course.
I'm working on a sparse audio codec that's mostly focused on "natural" sounds at the moment, and uses some (very roughly) physics-based assumptions to promote a sparse representation.
https://blog.cochlea.xyz/sparse-interpretable-audio-codec-pa...
Lerc
There is also the possibility for using these images as guidance for rasterization models. Generate easily manipulatable and composible images as a first stage then add detail once the image composition is satisfactory.
datadrivenangel
Trivially possible with controlnets!
zidad
I always imagine how useful Sora.ai could be if it would generate 3D models to render their animations from instead
spyder
I agree, that's the future of these video models. For professional use you want more control and the obvious next step towards that is to generate the full 3D scene (in the form of animated gaussian splats since that's more AI friendly than the mesh based 3D). That also helps the model to be more consistent but also adds the ability for the user to have more control over the camera or the scene.
SillyUsername
My little project for the highly intricate, messy representation ;) https://github.com/KodeMunkie/shapesnap (it stands on the backs of giants, original was not mine). It's also available on npm.
tasuki
Ah, we should be friends!
I'm not sure what else to add, except that these are exactly the thoughts I think, and it used to feel lonely ;)
janalsncm
I am a huge fan of this type of incremental generative approach. Language isn’t precise enough to describe a final product, so generating intermediate steps is very powerful.
I’d also like to see this in music generation. Tools like Suno are cool but I would much rather have something that generates MIDIs and instrument configurations instead.
Maybe this is a good lesson for generative tools. It’s possible to generate something that’s a good starting point. But what people actually want is long tail, so including the capability of precision modification is the difference between a canned demo and a powerful tool.
> Code coming soon
The examples are quite nice but I have no idea how reproducible they are.
kadushka
I’d also like to see this in music generation. Tools like Suno are cool but I would much rather have something that generates MIDIs and instrument configurations instead.
Sounds like you're looking for something like https://www.aiva.ai
janalsncm
Honestly that site feels like they have a database of midis tagged by genre and pick them out randomly. It’s totally different from their demo song.
I guess I’m hoping for something better. It’s also closed source, the web ui doesn’t have editing functionality, and the output is pretty disjointed. Maybe if I messed around with it enough the result would be decent.
kadushka
Fair enough. Still, for what you’ve described, Aiva is the best tool available.
bufferoverflow
MIDI isn't enough. I want MIDI + filters, plus separate voice and custom sounds tracks.
gexaha
microtonal midi would be super awesome
scosman
I’ve been impressed with even applying sonnet to SVGs for animations. This looks like it could be a lot more powerful.
Fun example: https://gist.github.com/scosman/701275e737331aaab6a2acf74a52...
intalentive
I’ve always thought that generation of intermediate representations was the way to go. Instead of generating concrete syntax, generate AST. Instead of generating PNG, generate SVG. Instead of generating a succession of images for animation, generate wire frame or rigging plus script.
Once you have your IR, modify and render. Once you have your render, apply a final coat of AI pixie dust.
Maybe generative models will get so powerful that fine-grained control can be achieved through natural language. But until then, this method would have the advantages of controllability, interoperability with existing tools (like Intellisense, image editors), and probably smaller, cheaper models that don’t have to accommodate high dimensional pixel space.
andy_ppp
I’m looking forward to seeing what this makes of Simon Willison’s LLM SVG generation test prompt: “Generate an SVG of a pelican riding a bicycle”.
It’s quite amazing the progress we are seeing in AI and it will keep getting better which is somewhat terrifying.
chestervonwinch
I wonder if you can use an existing svg as a starting point. I would love to use the sketch approach and generate frame-by-frame animations to plot with my pen plotter.
goeiedaggoeie
This is very nice.
I has to convert a bitmask to svg and was wishing to skip the intermediatary step so looked around for papers about segmentation models outputting svg and found this one https://arxiv.org/abs/2311.05276
zellyn
The sketch generation is wild… and apparently comes for free.
Jean-Papoulos
This is the kind of image generation I've been waiting for. No more messing around in Inkscape (or at least, less of it) when I need a specific icon.
airstrike
This opens up lots of opportunities for document authoring tools. Really cool stuff, can't wait to try out the code once it's available.
lewisjoe
Curious how this can augment document authoring! Can you toss some ideas?
airstrike
I just think about how often professionals need placeholder images or doodles in their documents, but cliparts are generally terrible and actually making a nice looking drawing for those purposes is out of scope for business users and immensely time consuming... so this fills a nice gap.
I'm obviously biased as a former "business user" writing a document authoring software!
cyp0633
Claude has been doing a good job generating SVGs compared to its rivals, happy to see new models bringing image generation even further
I am really impressed with how it generates rough sketches because everything in the design world begins that way.