Germany's train service is one of Europe's worst. How did it get so bad?
66 comments
·December 13, 2025bombcar
eigenspace
People claim that they cancel trains to try and preserve the statistics, but there's not really any evidence of it.
The actual reason is that if a train is too late, it will conflict too much with the other scheduled trains and there's simply no room for it. Keeping the delayed train will just cause more delays for other trains on the same route, because German trains are scheduled with very high frequency.
E.g. where I live in Cologne, there's typically a high speed train every 20 to 30 minutes to Frankfurt. If one train is delayed by 30 minutes, then suddenly you have two (ore more) trains right on top of eachother heading to the same destination, both on very very congested lines that theyre simultaneously trying to do repairs and expansions to.
Those are the sorts of situations where it makes sense to just cancel the train, not because of metrics but because of actual track constraints.
The main thing people dont understand about Germany's train system is the scale of it. The network is physically very large, but also very densely packed, and has very frequent trains.
For instance, here is the map just of the regional (non-high-speed) trains between cities in my state of Nordrhein-Westfalen: https://karteplan.com/deutschland/land/nordrhein-westfalen/s...
It looks more like a circuit board than a traditional transit map. That's why this problem is so hard to solve and will take a long time and a lot of investment before it improves.
mr_mitm
What they should be tracking is average delayed journeys. A train may be late by 15 minutes, but if that means I'll miss a connecting train, that might delay my journey by an hour or more. That would also take care of the issue you're describing.
eigenspace
Indeed, that'd be a more useful metric. Very hard to measure well though and probably actually leaves open more room for them to game the metrics than the current system does.
Keep in mind that for the majority of trains in Germany, nobody bought a specific ticket for that journey. We just use the DeutschlandTicket which is a flat subscription of 58€/month, which gives unlimited access to busses, trams, and regional trains (basically everything but high speed trains).
With the deutschalnd ticket, you typically just walk onto a train of your choice and go wherever you want. They dont actually know where all the travellers are going or even how many people there are
IshKebab
I agree. Funnily enough I had a journey sped up due to a delay recently. I had a change, and the train I was changing to was delayed so that I could make the earlier one which I should have missed had it been on time.
thaumasiotes
>> The main thing people dont understand about Germany's train system is the scale of it. The network is physically very large, but also very densely packed, and has very frequent trains.
> A train may be late by 15 minutes, but if that means I'll miss a connecting train, that might delay my journey by an hour or more.
Speaking from experience taking the subway in Shanghai, if a train is 15 minutes late, and it still manages to arrive before the train that was scheduled to follow it, it cannot be true that the network is "very densely packed" or that it has "very frequent trains".
spflueger
Quite some years ago there was some data backed evidence of this I would say. https://www.dkriesel.com/blog/2019/1229_video_und_folien_mei...
Here is the link to his talk directly https://youtu.be/0rb9CfOvojk?si=7EImZU9x4zFb6LSf
Its true that the network is quite dense and used by also cargo trains, but there is no denying that things got worse and worse. I constantly experience delay to do some stuff not working. I forgot even the minute threshold when a train is still punctual according to DB. I believe it's 10min by now, which can be deadly if you need to switch trains :)
logifail
> where I live in Cologne, there's typically a high speed train every 20 to 30 minutes to Frankfurt. If one train is delayed by 30 minutes, then suddenly you have two (ore more) trains right on top of eachother heading to the same destination, both on very very congested lines that theyre simultaneously trying to do repairs and expansions to. Those are the sorts of situations where it makes sense to just cancel the train, not because of metrics but because of actual track constraints.
Never mind congested lines, remember the trains are full of paying passengers!
(Let's assume both trains were more than half-full of passengers, which is fairly typical), what would you plan to do with the passengers on the cancelled train who can't get on the other train because there is literally no room for them?
I recently travelled on a badly-delayed ICE train (to Frankfurt Airport, as it happens) and it was running so late I ended up rebooking my flight from the stationary ICE because I lost confidence we would get to the airport in time for my flight.
kzrdude
> The main thing people dont understand about Germany's train system is the scale of it. The network is physically very large, but also very densely packed, and has very frequent trains.
And that's a wonderful thing, you can reach "everywhere" with a train in Germany. That's something I wanted to say that we need to keep in mind when we see a headline like this. It's a sense in which Germany's train service is one of the best in the world.
jonnybgood
I’m curious how Japan’s train network deals with these issues. That map looks like the train network in Tokyo alone. Japan’s network is also quite large, densely packed, and with very frequent trains. Despite Japan being well known for timeliness of its trains, it does have its occasional delays, but not often enough to think about.
eunos
Major Japanese train stations have so many platforms (Tokyo have 22), 1 platform for each route or destination.
In Germany train station a platform can host multiple route.
abc05xx
Japan has mostly purpose built tracks which makes it a lot easier. Still impressive though
delichon
> But they’ll stop choosing the train, and over 20 years you’ll find that everyone has moved to private vehicles or alternate transportation methods.
This is a country with a $2.68 per gallon gas tax, compared to $0.51 on average in the US (€0.60 v. €0.11 per liter). This is partly justified as nudging people to use less carbon intensive transport. That nudge works a lot less well when the lower carbon alternative is painfully worse than your car.
leviliebvin
Car ownership is pretty expensive. But holistically speaking it's not more expensive than the Deutschland Ticket, because it gives you access to cheaper housing options that you wouldn't be able to live in if you depended solely on public transport.
delichon
Can confirm for the US too. I live in a rural county with zero public transport, but when I tell city friends what the lot cost and the property tax on it, they have to hold back tears.
jack_tripper
>This is a country with a $2.68 per gallon gas tax, compared to $0.51 in the US.
Irrelevant comparison since US is a widely different animal to most European countries.
It might be expensive compared to the US, but Germany is still one of the countries with the most affordable income-to-cost ratios for car ownership in the Eurozone, so car commuting is incredibly common, especially for those not living in densely populated metro areas.
systemtest
From what I can see online, two-thirds of Germans use a car to commute to work.
dmix
So you’d pay roughly $40 in tax to fill a sedan in Germany vs $7 in America at 15 gallons?
naian
Not sure about Germany but in Spain tax on petrol is 44%. At current prices for petrol (1.3€/l) you need to pay around 78€ to fill a sedan (assuming 60 litre deposit) of which 34.3€ will go to the government.
aqme28
One time I did a cross-country move from Germany to the NL. Booked myself a 1st class ticket, because I had a ton of luggage and wanted a chill experience. Of course-- train is canceled, which means my seat reservation is also canceled. Next train comes and it's standing room only.
So I paid 3x for comfort, only to get stuck standing in the aisle with all my luggage for 6 hours and an additional transfer. Yes, I can get the ticket refunded, but the point is not about the money. What should I expect out of a service that can so easily be completely downgraded at a moment's notice?
systemtest
At least you were able to make a seat reservation. In The Netherlands I frequently had to stand in first class while paying €600+ a month for the subscription. Ended up buying a car, that way I had a guaranteed seat with climate control.
storus
Something similar happened to me, but with Lufthansa. Canceled my flight 1 day in advance and told me to take a hike, didn't even bother to find/recommend another flight. Germany has really deteriorated, it's no longer matching its past reputation of getting things done.
jccalhoun
This summer I took a DB train from Amsterdam to Berlin. Being from the midwest USA, I didn't have a lot of experience with trains so I bought a first class ticket. The air and power in my car weren't working. There was no beverage car or service so we sat sweating to death. After a couple hours they gave in and told us to go to another car. Then at the next stop someone got on and yelled at me because I was in his assigned seat.
systemtest
Last time I had to go somewhere in Germany I used a Flixbus instead of their "high-speed" trains. The fact that I was willingly subjecting myself to a Flixbus, not because of price but because of reliability, really tells you something about the state of trains in Germany.
For Americans: Flixbus a cheap bus service which is often used by people who are not really bothered by social norms.
hyperman1
I've tried them once, and my experience with Flixbus was a disaster. They optimize for cheapness above everything else.
Their drivers can't do anything except scan your ticket and deny entrance if the computer says no. They don't speak any local language or English. Any minor problem cascades in delays of half a day. Their bus stops were druggie/thief zones where I felt really unsafe. After their train was 2 hours late, I was a minute late for my connection. The bus driver saw us running to his bus, smiled, waved at us, closed his door and drove away, showing his middle finger out of the window.
bondarchuk
It's really a pity for a large part of international train travel too, given Germany's central position in Europe. Many people I know (moi incluis) would really like to take the train for holiday or work travel (instead of airplane) but it's just not worth the risk of having to deal with Deutsche Bahn. Holland to Denmark by train, tried it once, never again.
zeeZ
I've been told that since the privatization, the funding was split between DB paying for maintenance while the state provided funds for replacement and new lines. Allegedly this provided an incentive to let things deteriorate until they needed replacement.
Projects are planned, coordinated and funds allocated far in advance, so if the government can't agree on a budget and projects are shelved or canned, restarting the process causes a significant delay.
troupo
Same situation in Sweden.
It's a running joke in Stockholm that tracks, trains, signals, and people are owned/employed by 4 different entities
lysace
To clarify: Deutsche Bahn is still 100% government owned. It operates both its train service and the railroad infrastructure in fully owned subsidiaries.
usrusr
And that's exactly what's not reflected in management success metrics. They are basically incentivized to steal from their owners through systematic neglect, what could possibly go wrong.
FeepingCreature
I think it's only possible to understand German politics in two ways: either nobody in politics understands incentives, or they understand incentives much better than the voters and are fully exploiting this fact.
sschueller
If you lookup the details about the decision to build and construction of Stuttgart 21[1] it's an insane mix of corruption, nepotism and incompetence. Partially also a result of laws changing and allowing privatisation of public infrastructure.
This satire [2] about it on German TV is 6 years old now and the project is still increasing in cost and being delayed. It's a pit without a bottom now.
foresterre
> Waning reliability is but one of many problems for state-owned Deutsche Bahn, which is operating at a loss and regularly subjects its passengers to poor or no Wi-Fi access, seat reservation mix-ups, missing train cars and "technical problems" — a catch-all reason commonly cited by conductors over the train intercom.
As someone who fairly often travels by German ICE (not their regional trains), I've only ever experienced the timetable unreliability.
WiFi is fairly reliable and much much better than for example the Dutch railway (NS) WiFi which never seems to work, and I can't remember the last time it didn't work on an ICE. I've never had any seat reservation mix ups or (knowingly) missing train cars; the last two I've experienced only once in Europe, on a cross border train from Slovenia to Austria, with the seat booked via the ÖBB on a Slovenian train.
When these ICE's are on time and show up, I like them a lot. The seats are very comfortable, there's food service in the train, the seat reservations aren't thát high, and are optional (unlike say high speed rail in Italy, where there's a 15 euro required seat reservation on top of the ticket price), the staff is consistently friendly and so far (I think) they haven't joined the annoying recent trend to put digital ads on the same monitor as the in train timetable.
More so, I really really like the Deutsche Bahn app and use it for trains all over Europe.
Reading this article makes me ask myself if the route and type of train matters, but also that the article didn't really add anything new from what wasn't already known. With their ongoing frequent delays DB made them an easy target for anything under the sun, but comparatively to other trains in Europe, at least for DB ICE's, delays aside, I feel they're doing quite alright.
FeepingCreature
As an occasional ICE traveler, I can confirm the Wifi, I'm at the point where I don't even bother logging on to the free wifi but just use my phone hotspot. I'd guess it's dependent on the route; Berlin-Munich definitely has dropouts.
padjo
Don’t worry, at the current trajectory Germany will have a leader who “makes the trains run on time” in 10-15 years.
naian
Heh, isn't this funny? If someone I don't like wins an election, I will compare him to a dictator from another country. Using a completely unrelated thread. I am very intelligent.
FeepingCreature
With the still rising numbers for the AfD, Germany has plenty of reasons to worry about fascism without bothering to bring in American politics. Not everything is about Trump.
ahoka
[flagged]
null
KellyCriterion
Then, when fusion is finally ready? :-D
summa_tech
Oh, fusion has been ready for this sort of application for over 70 years.
MomsAVoxell
I moved to Germany from Southern California in 2002 and as a conscientious objector to gridlock and indeed any grid whatsoever, I experienced very distinct happiness at the change of transportation paces between those two worlds, and the very first thing I did was get myself a DB (Deutsche Bahn) membership, which gave me so many nice memories.
I'm very fond of those years of easy train rides all over that part of Europe, and indeed internally within Germany, too. The overnight trains to Munich and Hamburg, Berlin and Vienna (ÖBB membership too), the easy rides between towns all over the Rührgebiet and NRW, the delightful weekend trips to Wuppertal and Bonn and so on. The sleeper cabins, the disco car, the wonderful cold beers served during a summer sojourn to The Hague, and so on. Yes, German trains could get you around, and connected, and after all - the rail systems of Europe are a reason to live there.
So I'm kind of saddened to hear of the demise of things, having left Germany for another land with well-laid rail (Austria), which I use with little sense of a lack of quality. But I do remember days of being very impressed with Germanys' transportation services .. it seems the nation of unlimited speed limits on the autobahn did, in those days, have superlative rail as well.
(Still, that was ±20 years ago. I suppose I shouldn't be that shocked to see time take its toll.)
j1elo
What's up with train services reliability in Europe? In my european corner here, I always have to give this advice to people who are new to the city: do NOT use the commute train ever if the deadline is serious and absolute (you got a work interview, a flight, a funeral). Trains get stopped in the middle of the trip, get delayed, or get cancelled all the time!
The solution is to lose even more of your time (as if public transport wasn't slow enough already) and be at the station already for the previous schedule of what you'd ideally need to take. But at that point, sometimes it's just better to go a longer route by subway, or if traffic is not bad, go ahead by car for those occasions.
fschuett
I once had an idea to build an "probabilistic routing" system that "predicts" the likelihood of arriving at your destination. I.e. "you have a 85% likelihood of arriving in Berlin over Route Y instead of the official Route X because it uses train connection Z, which is historically always late". Obviously the bahn.de routing will only get you the "quickest calculated connection", but then during the travel I rarely have one day where there's no "your connection is not available anymore, please look for an alternative" error in the DB App. Especially if you have to change regional trains 3, 4 or 5 times.
Basically, my method of traveling with Deutsche Bahn has now gotten me back to improving my geography, because I developed an instinct of "try to get as physically close to where you want to go because as soon as you step outside the train, you have no guarantee that the next train will arrive". Rather than immediately planning the entire trip in advance, I'll say "okay I need to head roughly east and I know that larger cities have more frequent connections, so if anything happens, I prefer being stranded in a large city rather than being stuck in No Mans Land just because bahn.de says it's the fastest connection". This is very important when traveling late in the day, to not spend the night at a station.
The downside is obviously that German traveling has now degraded to a state of "medieval mode" traveling, where you have to plan your overnight stops at the local inn while fighting robbers, peasants and bicyclists for a spot in your horse carriage (sorry, I mean "RE3"). But when you are eventually stranded in Knitschendorf-Unteroblingen main station at 23:59pm because bahn.de said that there should be a train here and then staring into the night sky above you, at least you remember that traveling beyond the horizon has finally become magical again. Onto new adventures, travelers! See y'all at Mt. Doom.
rixed
Scheduling trains is a complex problem involving many parameters, but the public see only one facet of it: is my train delayed or not?
Of course delays depend on budget and investments, and bureaucracy.
But not only. For instance, comparing high speed trains in Germany and France can give the impression that German trains are ineficient and slow, but Germany being a much less centralized country, which is good, trains have to make many more stops, oftentimes leading to more complex scheduling and not being able to reach the top speed between stops, and thus less time to catch up on small delays.
Similarly, there are different policies regarding international trains vs national trains, or freight vs passenger, and also different variables they can optimize for: number of delays, total duration of delays, availability of emergency paths, etc, and various policies will yield different sentiment regarding "is my train on time".
A document that gives an overview of the variety of policies across Europe: https://rne.eu/wp-content/uploads/RNE_OverviewOfthePriorityR...
bondarchuk
You are trying to add a lot of nuance to a topic which is just not very nuanced. Trains in germany are a nightmare because of decades of mismanagement. All the rest is copium, as the kids say.
Cancelling trains to preserve on-time statistics is the kind of perverse activity you get when metrics aren’t correctly setup.
A cancelled train should be counted as delayed until the next train (close to the worst-case scenario) so as to discourage it.
But the real problem with deteriorating service is that people will put up with it for a long time - as long as they get to where they’re going eventually.
But they’ll stop choosing the train, and over 20 years you’ll find that everyone has moved to private vehicles or alternate transportation methods.
And then you have no riders and trying to get back on track will take 20 years or more.