Benn Jordan’s flock camera jammer will send you to jail in Florida now [video]
151 comments
·December 12, 2025milesvp
karmakaze
I realized just how much of a geek and obsessive he is when I watched a video about his analysis and evaluation of reverb effects.
dtj1123
Benn Jordan holds a special place in my Youtube viewing habits, in that he was the influence that ultimately broke my Youtube addiction. I no longer engage with their recommendation algorithm in any way.
You have to respect the integrity needed to use such a hard-won platform to de-platform yourself, in the interests of your audience.
wyre
Was there a video in particular? I admire Benn but haven’t seen any of his videos on the YouTube algorithm in particular.
butlike
Indeed! His content is really good. Unfortunately, I can't find the video right now, but there's one of him recording natural reverb in a tunnel that was really good. A 20 mile bike ride in the dark makes the video very dream like and pleasant.
wvbdmp
He’s also The Flashbulb. Probably some other aliases, too, idk. But The Flashbulb is good shit.
godelski
Acidwolf, Human Action Network, FlexE and his wiki lists some more and might want to check here[0].
I don't remember what website it was (it's probably redacted anyways, but I'm sure he does and others do now) but I remember him once getting joking that someone uploaded his album before he could.
> The Flashbulb is good shit
I'd recommend trying these. I doubt people will like all but I think these are all approachable and have good coverage.
- Terra Firma, on Terra Firma
- If Trees Could Speak, on Red Extensions
- Passage D, on Kirlian Selections
- Piano variant on Old Trees (Not on Spotify [1])
- Precipice, on Piety of Ashes
- Undiscovered Colors, on Arboreal
- Three Hundred CC, on Hardscrabble
- Dishevel, on Krilian Selections
- Coinage, is this even in an album?[2] Dude makes a fucking song out of dropping coins.
- Or watch what he does with a fucking straw...[3]
Side note: he isn't anti-AI. As a ML researcher myself I actually generally like his takes. Use AI to better us, not replace us, not further harm (like Flock), and to make it an extension of us rather than to offload. There's a fuck ton of cool stuff that ML/AI can do and I'm really not sure why we're so hyper-fixated on having it create slop. But hey, I don't get the fixation with human generated slop either. There's two paths we can go with this technology. Either we can use it to drive costs down and produce lower quality stuff quicker or we can use it to make higher quality stuff at the same rate (there's a spectrum of course). I'm already frustrated by the low and declining quality of things, maybe we shouldn't just strap a jet engine to the train already moving that direction...
[0] https://www.discogs.com/artist/67855-The-Flashbulb
[1] https://bennjordan.bandcamp.com/album/old-trees-1999-2011
gruez
1. I highly doubt the adversarial image generated by Jordan actually works in practice, especially since it needs to be fined tuned for a specific model, not to mention that different angles/noise will probably break it even more
2. Louis tries to defend whatever Ben's doing by saying that it's basically like random specks of mud or bird shit, but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing. Having random specks on your license plate isn't going to send you to jail, but if it's obvious that you intentionally crafted the specks to defeat the ANPR, that's a whole different thing entirely, even if they vaguely look the same.
3. As much as I don't like ANPR networks or government surveillance, haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights (ie. "driving is a privilege, not a right")? For instance, the constitution guarantees free movement, but you need a drivers license to drive and police can ask for your license without probable cause. You also can't refuse a blood alcohol test while driving.
ChrisMarshallNY
Around here, folks wipe off the paint from their license plates with paint thinner. The plate still has the number, but an ALPR won’t be able to read it.
I’m told the reason is so that they don’t have to pay bridge tolls (which are quite high).
It’s illegal, but I see cars with bare-metal license plates, all the time.
Interesco
(Assuming this is NY) Worth noting that NY license plates had a defect that caused the paint to delaminate [1]. I am not surprised that people intentionally do it, but this delamination used to be extremely common.
[1]: https://www.syracuse.com/news/2019/08/new-york-ends-contract...
ChrisMarshallNY
That makes sense.
I suspect it gives cover for the ones that do it on purpose.
reaperducer
This happened in West Virginia. But according to the newspapers, it was because the prison inmates were peeing in the license plate paint.
This was pre-public internet, so no link that I could find.
0xbadcafebee
Just because you're a driver doesn't mean you get less rights. It means you implicitly consent to the laws covering driving. One such law that (thankfully) still protects drivers? No searching and seizing items from a vehicle without probable cause. You have the right to privacy in your vehicle, with this caveat: they can't search for just any reason, and they're not allowed to search random people. It has to be a specific person, with probable cause of a specific crime.
It's illegal for the cops to put a GPS tracker on your car to track your movements without a signed search warrant. But it's legal for them to place so many cameras that they can do the same thing with no warrant? Bullshit. Recording every single license plate and its movements in perpetuity constitutes a search of random people with no cause. Searching for your specific movements constitutes a search, and therefore must require probable cause or a warrant.
But the law doesn't protect us from this yet, because it's relatively new. When new technology comes out that current laws don't cover, the police abuse it. It's up to us to demand the laws be updated to protect us from this abuse.
LorenPechtel
No. The law doesn't prohibit it because it's simply automated gathering of information they could gather anyway. It becomes illegal when the police use technology to bypass barriers (for example, seeing your weed from a drone), but not when they simply use technology to automate handling with what they can see.
trhway
>they simply use technology to automate handling with what they can see
A police dept with 500 employees can't see at 10000 places at once. So, it isn't "simply to automate".
It would be like saying that rifle is just a simple automation of how one can use a hammer to drive a nail into a victim, and thus if one is allowed to own/carry a hammer and nails then the one is allowed to own/carry a rifle.
gruez
>It's illegal for the cops to put a GPS tracker on your car to track your movements without a signed search warrant. But it's legal for them to place so many cameras that they can do the same thing with no warrant? Bullshit.
It's not any "bullshit" then the fact that police don't need a warrant to follow you. It might be tempting to report with some variant of the "2nd amendment was only intended for muskets" argument, pointing out that the founding fathers never imagined a cop at every street corner, but then you have to deal with all the associated implications. For instance, does that mean first amendment protections don't extend to the internet?
Terr_
> he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing
A bit of silver lining is that the law does require intent, which was a pleasant surprise since it reduces how easily a bad official could weaponize the law against an innocent person.
> A person who knowingly violates this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree
[0] https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/253/?Tab=BillText
quesera
> A person who knowingly violates
Is there a legal specification of "knowingly" that requires intent? Or is "awareness" adequate?
E.g. If you know (or would be reasonably expected to know) that your license plate was obscured by mud from your offroading adventures, does this verbiage apply to you?
Terr_
Hmmm, I suppose "intent" is ambiguous since it covers more than one of these tiers:
1. I didn't notice there was anything different.
2. I noticed, but I didn't cause it.
3. I decided to alter it for a innocent reason.
4. I decided to alter it for a guilty reason.
You probably need a Florida lawyer for a high-certainty answer, but I suspect both 3 and 4 will be a violation.
If it were only 4, then it'd be a bit too easy to evade: "Oh, gee golly officer, I didn't know, I was just following that instasnaptok trend of putting glitter on it to make it pretty. The law doesn't say I can't make it fabulous."
Spivak
If the plate is visible and clearly readable to a human but not readable by a machine has the law been violated? In my state there is no law that requires that my license plate be viewable by ALPRs so long as it's in plain view to a human observer.
The software isn't a person and so I think there's a real question as to whether or not you can even say the license plate isn't visible to it because the software doesn't have eyes it can't observe anything, that's just our way of conceptualizing what it's doing. And I don't think this is theoretical because this idea that the machine isn't a person is argued by the state for why dragnet surveillance isn't a search until a human actually goes and looks at it.
Terr_
> but not readable by a machine has the law been violated
IANAL but I think that would be a violation, since it falls under the "detectability" of a "feature" being "recorded".
> A person may not apply or attach [...] onto or around [...] which interferes with the legibility, angular visibility, or detectability of any feature or detail on the license plate or interferes with the ability to record any feature or detail on the license plate. A person who knowingly violates this section commits a misdemeanor of the second degree.
https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2025/253/?Tab=BillText
Noaidi
> but he doesn't seem to realize that intent is a thing.
He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you over.
> haven't courts consistently ruled that drivers have less rights
This is not about the right to drive. This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
gruez
>He does realize this. The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you over.
Except in this case, it'll be pretty obvious that you used a carefully crafted pattern, because it's a custom printed license plate rather the state manufactured one. Moreover, of the list of plausible excuses capricious cops can use to arrest/ticket you, this is pretty near the bottom. Something vague like "speeding" or obstructing traffic (for driving at or below the speed limit, since most people speed) already exists, for instance.
>This is not about the right to drive. This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
My point is that the courts (and to some extent, the public) have generally accepted that you have less rights while driving, so it's going to be an uphill battle. This is in spite of the fact that I oppose ANPRs.
try_the_bass
> This is about a database of collected data on you that can be searched by anyone. ANYONE.
Except this part isn't true?
sallveburrpi
I think he didn’t mean that say “everyone” but rather “anyone who is some random person working for this private company or the cops or the government or whoever they inevitably sell this data to/gets access to the data when it inevitably leaks through some random unsecured s3 bucket”
gunalx
It was at least, because of shitty security practices.
rationalist
The data is available by FOIA.
Noaidi
Anyone, by that I mean anyone that matters, or a very large group of people that you should be afraid of to have this power. I mean, excuse my hyperbole, but is this not enough?
Like an ex boyfriend: https://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article29105...
Or the Feds: https://centralcurrent.org/federal-immigration-agents-access...
Or a cop anywhere: https://data.aclum.org/2025/10/07/flock-gives-law-enforcemen...
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2025/11/how-cops-are-using-flo...
https://atlpresscollective.com/2025/11/13/atlanta-police-flo...
IshKebab
> The problem is the police can make up intent just to mess with people. How easy is it fro the cops to say "You purposely splattered mud on you license plate" and fine you or put you in jail. Or even use it as an excuse to pull you over.
That's not the problem. The fact that intent is considered by the law is a good thing, because it allows you to use the defence "I didn't intend for the mud to obscure the number". Without that, the cops can just say "there is mud on your license plate" and you have no recourse.
Workaccount2
Unfortunately you are responsible for making sure your plates are clearly visible while driving. Mud doesn't easily coat your plate to the point of obscurity, you either were driving in lots of heavy mud (clean off car before going back on public roads) or haven't cleaned accumulated mud off in a while (not adhering to making sure your car is road legal).
Negligence will still get you in trouble.
nkrisc
Driving is a privilege, not a right.
gleenn
Same with flying they say. But how free are you if the government snaps its fingers and removes every reasonable mode of transportation unless you sacrifice your privacy? The cameras (which are 100% opt-out by the way, tell them NO) in airports are rammed down are throats as well. How am I supposed to privately move?
LogicFailsMe
This would seem like a form of State AI regulation forcing you to submit to flock AI surveillance. I thought the dear leader was going to make any sort of regulation of AI illegal nationwide? Looking forward to the absurd lawsuit asserting exactly this.
Especially when the boss move is just to retrain the network with a bunch of examples with the flock camera jammer applied. And if that's beyond the pythonic acumen of the employees of flock, that's their problem.
frogperson
This is fascism, the rules coudlnt be clearer. Enemies bad, friends good. You dont need laws or logic for that.
programmertote
I generally don't like the idea of relying on one private company to track private individual citizens' movement. So, I have an issue with this punishment (although I see that allowing that would also make it harder for automated toll charging systems to collect tolls).
On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered). Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers?
wingspar
Those covers in FL are now fully illegal (Oct 1) along with most license plate frames.
Have a friend who got pulled over recently and given a warning for the clear cover on his plate. Apparently, they can be a felony in some cases.
I recall on an old Top Gear episode years ago, in the UK, people were selling mud in a spray can. You apparently sprayed the mud up the bumper and across the plate so it looks like it’s just slung mud, but it just so happens to block the plate. Plausible deniability in a can…
15155
> Apparently, they can be a felony in some cases.
Which statute is applicable here?
snypher
Sorry for the terrible source, but I always admired the tactical leaf;
https://nypost.com/2022/11/26/unbe-leaf-able-scofflaws-dodge...
ProllyInfamous
I think an always-installed bike rack is going to be the "safest" solution.
Here in Tennessee I'm also thinking about making a "frame" which extends out about 12 inches from the rear of the bumper, blocking aerial observation (but still in compliance with Tennessee law, "visible from rear at 100ft").
Our photo tickets aren't legally enforceable (across the entire state, except for automated school/bus citations), but the Flock cameras have really started being deployed over the past year.
Most of our new Flock cameras have additional security cameras prominently recording, nearby (like you'd see in a bigbox parking lot for security). I hope we can legislate these out of existance, pronto.
JuniperMesos
I'm not sure how the cameras used to take pictures of car license plates so that the driver can be identified and required to pay a toll for use of the road, is meaningfully different than a camera used to take pictures of car license plates (and other things in the scene) for the purpose of detecting crime. It's still the government running a camera in public to take pictures of things, including cars with clearly-visible license plates, and then knowing that the car was at a specific location at a specific time.
saxonww
The opaque covers (and essentially all license plate decorations, frames, covers, etc.) are illegal as of October 1 in Florida. I believe initially the plan is stop-and-educate, but the law provides for a $500 fine and up to 60 days jail time for obscuring your license plate.
almosthere
It is weird to me that we got to a point where we are being literal about the law again, instead of the spirit.
I guess laws should no longer say:
A license plate should be attached to a car.
Instead it should say:
All vehicles that don't display their license plate for cameras of any kind are illegal, the spirit of this law is to make it so we can identify through the number assigned to the vehicle from the state that identifies it is obvious if a picture is taken of the vehicle from the front or the back.
Better yet, judges and legal experts should just stop playing these games with words and figure out a new way to make things that are supposed to be legal, legal.
buran77
> It is weird to me that we got to a point where we are being literal about the law again, instead of the spirit.
The "spirit" of any law requiring license plates on vehicles is that the license plate can be read under normal conditions. The letter of the law may have been more generic, although many countries define very precisely everything about the plate, its condition and legibility. So demanding visible plates is exactly in the spirit of the law. What's the point of a license plate that nobody can read?
People exploited the letter of the law by having a license that was illegible somehow. Covered, faded writing, flipped under the motorcycle seat, etc.
> vehicles that don't display their license plate for cameras of any kind are illegal
License plates predate traffic cameras and the requirement for readable plates has been in force in many countries since for almost all that time. The license needs to be visible first and foremost so humans can easily identify a car. It can be police or a witness when someone runs you over.
Cameras automate this so they make abuse far easier. But the need was always there for various legitimate reasons.
Almost no law would survive if everyone was allowed to just take some literal interpretation of their own choice. The attitude that "well technically the law says" is usually shot down by any judge for good reason. Someone could have a lot of fun with your right to "bear arms".
loeg
License plates have always been required to be legible; that's the whole point. Obscuring them is clearly against the spirit of the law, whether or not that particular method is specifically codified.
michaelt
> All vehicles that don't display their license plate for cameras of any kind are illegal, the spirit of this law is to make it so we can identify through the number assigned to the vehicle from the state that identifies it is obvious if a picture is taken of the vehicle from the front or the back.
Quarter inch high license plates are now legal. It’s hardly the motorist’s fault if the camera is too low resolution :)
Regular license plates are illegal, because they’re unreadable to a type of camera - thermal cameras :)
gorgoiler
As aomeone much funnier than me once said, there’s nothing more uniquely American than the ability — nay, the right! — to get off on a technicality.
rolph
imthinking of a shell game -sort of.
dont obstruct the plate, obfusicate it with bumperstickers that have license plate like fonts, but are clearly not plates to human perceptions.
deltoidmaximus
Once I started looking for the plastic plate covers I was actually shocked how common they are. Of course enforcement is so lax these days many people seem to be using a paper temporary plate that they printed out. No word on how many of those are even real, I can't even read the numbers on them through the window.
fullstop
Did you see the one which used an electromagnet to hold fake leaves in place? If they got pulled over, they could push a button which would allow the leaves to fall off.
anonymars
Need I remind you, 007, that you have a licence to kill, not to break the traffic laws
nine_k
Leaves are not ferromagnetic, so they won't stick to an electromagnet. A few small holes with a small pump that constantly sucks the air from them would help stick a real, unmodified leaf to the surface. and release it at will. This would require tampering with the license plate, even though in a very minor way.
tbyehl
In my town some of the police cars have darkly tinted plate covers.
tehwebguy
> On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates.
Daily Show segment on a guy who "uncovers" these in NY including cops' personal vehicles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1J5nuA1QNs
try_the_bass
> On a related note, when I lived in FL, I often saw cars with this opaque plastic cover on number plates. I think these are installed by the drivers so that they can avoid paying road toll (FL has many road tolls). I also noticed that these drivers tend to be more aggressive in driving than others (that's how I noticed their license plates are covered).
I've noticed the same thing in my area of CA. Lots of folks with different devices to obscure their plates, and a strong correlation between the obscured plates and very poor or aggressive driving.
I've started to quip that the obscured plates + tinted windows + blacked-out taillights is the "frequent moving violation starter kit".
Or "tell me you violate the rules of the road without telling me you violate the rules of the road".
> Will the same punishment be applied to those drivers?
One could imagine that's actually the targeted demographic, and not the subset of folks trying to circumvent Flock cameras.
OptionOfT
I see these plastic covers a lot. Especially here in AZ they get UV damaged fast which makes them opaque.
And the more and more I want one. Not to drive like an ass. I don't. I just want to drive around without being tracked.
try_the_bass
> Not to drive like an ass. I don't.
Color me skeptical
greyface-
The time is ripe for ALPR-based sousveillance. If these types of countermeasures are outlawed, legislators and police could use a reminder that the legal principle that enables Flock imperils their privacy just as much as ours.
Noaidi
Flock does not just read license plates, it makes a fingerprint of your car. This is far beyond ALPR.
phil21
What does this mean exactly? Pretty much any reasonably modern ALPR system also records make/model/type/color of vehicle along with the plate reading these days. Obviously some are better at this than others, but even my Unifi cameras do this these days.
The “secret sauce” of Flock is the extensive nature of the camera network and database correlation.
nickthegreek
Directly from the serpent's mouth:
"No more gaps – just evidence.
A license plate is just a start. Flock’s Vehicle Fingerprint® tech turns footage into evidence that solves cases by pinpointing vehicles by make, color, type, and unique characteristics like decals, bumper stickers, and accessories. This capability proved to be instrumental in a recent case in Catoosa, OK where police were able to track down the suspect connected to a mass murder after their vehicle was spotted by a Flock camera."
https://www.flocksafety.com/blog/6-benefits-of-lpr-for-law-e...
FireBeyond
Color, make, model, body damage, panels that are a different color to the rest of the body, wheels, decals, bumper stickers, tow hitches, roof racks, etc., so even if they can't read your plate they can try to build a vehicle identity, and when they do get a plate capture, they can retroactively apply that to all other sightings of the vehicle.
tamimio
Yep, I have seen it used IDing cars without plates
Aloisius
Intentionally modifying a license plate in order to prevent it from being read?
The only thing I'm shocked about is that it hasn't wasn't illegal before.
websiteapi
Exactly. I have no idea anyone would be surprised that modifying your license plate so it cannot be read would be illegal.
patrickmay
The plate can still be easily read by a human, just not one of the Flock cameras.
websiteapi
Or toll booths…
SamInTheShell
Seem to recall license plates are required to be illuminated as well. What's stopping someone from just adding an additional IR light to those enclosures? Couldn't you just slap an additional bright enough IR light in that makes it impossible to even see the plate clearly through cameras?
Personally, if I cared enough to obfuscate my plate info from these devices, I would just taint their data by wrapping my car in a wrap with various different "plates" themed art. I like cars and the exterior has traditionally been treated like art. Tainting data is just as effective at making the core dataset useless as omitting data in the first place.
15155
> What's stopping someone from just adding an additional IR light to those enclosures
Nothing.
> Couldn't you just slap an additional bright enough IR light in that makes it impossible to even see the plate clearly through cameras?
You could: but it will only work at night (and even then, I don't know if the amount of light you could concentrate in that area would be enough to blow out letters), because all of these cameras have switchable IR cutoff filters.
BobaFloutist
Surely the sensor would detect the IR separately from the visible light and could easily filter it out?
LorenPechtel
Most digital cameras see farther on the low end than humans do and it can do some odd things. It made the news with the Sony? camera that had a mode specifically to use this--turns out it sort-of sees through many swimsuits. Or a video I've seen of firefighters caught in a burnover--the fire looked very weird!
SamInTheShell
Genuinely don’t know. The hack here is exploiting artifacts from over exposure for the camera sensor. As to if they have mitigating features to filter non visible light, I’m actually curious.
vorpalhex
I doubt it, that is a lot of extra cost against an attack that doesn't exist today.
SamInTheShell
I just imagine the most hilarious form of this idea being a panel that lays behind the plate that is part of the car. The panel containing an array of IR leds that flood everything behind the car with invisible light. Imagine going out side, seeing nothing, but you pop open your phone's camera app and everything is illuminated for some reason. Would be wild.
Edit: I have no concept of what camera sensors are doing these days.
pedalpete
I find it interesting that the law states "affects the ability to record".
The license plate can still be recorded. A human viewing the license plate recorded would still be able to visualize it.
There is nothing shown in this video in the law that states that the license plate has to be legible to a computer or specifically an AI.
pickledonions49
It can be recorded, but the dots make it so some systems can't recognize it. I perceived "record" in the context of identification/logging.
Shalomboy
I would very much like to leave the "free state of Florida". All of the benefits of living here that I grew up knowing by heart no longer exist and the state government's only concern seems to be punishing people for wrongthink. It isn't cheap to lease or buy property anywhere near a metro area, the coral reefs and sponge beds have mostly disappeared, the beautiful wildlife in our state parks has been curtailed by constant wildfires, and the schools have atrophied to a shell of their former selves. What's the point of living here anymore, or raising my kids here?
lisbbb
The schools were ever good? FL, and the entire US south, for that matter, have a long track record of poor K-12 performance.
websiteapi
A very common trope but performance basically is the same when you normalize for socioeconomics
pengaru
I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees
definitely avoid CA
wnevets
> I hear Austin, TX is the bees knees
Talk about a lateral move.
Shalomboy
Austin is alluring, but I can't seem to get my foot in the door at any of the big chipmakers in town. Not to be snarky, but I already have enough problems with power outages during hurricane season - ERCOT doesn't inspire much more confidence.
beepbooptheory
Why leave Florida just to move to Texas?
mbg721
Texas can be pricey, but it has huge and diverse growing urban areas with a lot of job opportunities, where someplace like Miami is really cutthroat and very expensive.
Or you'd move if you like Mexican food more than Cuban and South American food.
opengrass
It's a payday for ride share companies.
pickledonions49
Wow now I am being stalked by AI algorithms instead of that twitchy psycho from work.
Jokes aside I think this is an issue for the reason of hypocrisy (not that I want to track people) and usage of the technology.
Noaidi
It is time to start asking ourselves, in all seriousness; "What would you do right now if you knew that fascists were coming."
Because it is so obvious that they are coming.
honeycrispy
Michigan recently introduced a "save the children" bill that would ban VPNs in an act titled "anticorruption of public morals".
https://legislature.mi.gov/Bills/Bill?ObjectName=2025-HB-493...
metalcrow
Buy a gun, and learn how to use it. This is good advice even if you don't believe it's necessary.
lisbbb
It's not that helpful. What stops this technocratic authoritarianism is shutting down the electrical grid. If that happens the surveillance state dies instantly and all of the top echelon becomes vulnerable again. They live in a house of straw.
rationalist
Even if you don't like guns and don't want to own one, you should know how they work and how they are used properly.
Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school. Public schools used to have indoor ranges (I've seen one with my own eyes).
When someone learns gun safety, they are less likely to accidentally shoot themselves or someone else if they come across one.
15155
> Kids used to be taught gun safety in public school
The problem is that this normalizes the behavior, something that a specific political sect (coincidentally overlapping heavily with those employed in education) desperately wants to avoid.
quesera
How could that help? The fascists have bigger guns and more brownshirts.
If you survive the initial encounter, you're on the run and an enemy of the state?
honeycrispy
There was a protest against the election in Tanzania on October 29th where the police were ordered to gun down the protesters, this is a country that has strict gun laws. Hundreds died.
One of the reasons that doesn't happen in America is because the protestors would promptly shoot back and there would be a rapid formation of a militia. Hard to do that when you don't have guns.
unethical_ban
Find like minded people you can trust and know who will have whose back if something really goes wrong. Also have a passport and some cash, crypto and/or jewelry to get you out if this goes too far.
LgWoodenBadger
As if passports can't be revoked electronically now
yfw
Theyre already here and affecting some groups. Just ask how privileged you are before youre next on the list
PaulDavisThe1st
"Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed".
metalman
"Fascism, like the future, is already here, it's just unevenly distributed".
SNAP!
Noaidi
I agree, but I was trying not to be so "controversial" but I see that did not help. Someone already thinks all of this is fine and not authoritarian without providing me with an explanation.
Forums will make fun of you for saying that Nazi's are here until they are surrounded by Nazis wondering what happened.
willis936
Make a bug out plan. Assume roads and cars are not an option. Assume you will be able to claim political asylum in another nation. Pack a bag.
ericmcer
What nation? All the "democratic" western nations are moving in this direction.
willis936
This is a survivalist exercise. You're not going to fix the world's problems while trying to avoid being put into a labor camp.
null
quesera
> Assume roads and cars are not an option
Walk to Canada? That works from some areas.
willis936
Yes. Or Mexico. It's a longer walk for some more than others, but almost all of the political targets live near coastal cities that are within a month of a border. This would not be a trivial journey, but it would also not be insurmountable for many determined people. Survival ends up being a strong motivator.
null
alistairSH
Asked and answered. We, collectively, elected Trump a second time and left a GOP majority in Congress.
phendrenad2
Institutionalized racism. Police immune to prosecution. Government-backed monopolies. Oligarchy based on proximity to the supreme. Scapegoating various classes of people. False flags. Surveillance economy. Seems to me that whatever we have now is functionally indistinct from fascism. But if it makes you feel better to keep calling it democracy...
Scubabear68
Wherever Robert Heinlein is right now, he is shaking his head sadly. Told ya so......
onetokeoverthe
[dead]
BTW, if you don't know Benn Jordan, his YouTube content is fire. I happen to be in the intersection of things that he likes to think about, but every video I've seen of his lately deserves front page HN treatment. It is that good.
This one was particularly good, given the technical difficulties of recording low frequency sounds. I can't vouch for his conclusions, but the effort he goes to to record these sounds is crazy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTvr8L5v8u8