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Books by People – Defending Organic Literature in an AI World

avazhi

I think for me I’m just going to accept that I won’t be reading any modern fiction, likely ever. It isn’t like there isn’t more than I could read in multiple lifetimes already out there that is pre, say, 2010. But the other side is that fiction has never been worse, because the commercial impetus to become a published fiction writer has never been lower (literally since before the 1600s, given functional literacy levels and the amount of fiction reading the average person does). The Steinbecks of the world aren’t writing novels in 2025.

tinkelenberg

I like the term “organic literature.” A significant amount of readers have no interest whatsoever in generated prose, so there is definitely a viable market in human provenance.

An independent certification body is quite an old-world solution for a problem like this, but I’m not sure this is something that can be done mathematically. A web of trust may be all we have.

DrewADesign

Unfortunately, like most other kinds of commercial art, the mere presence of generated literature waters down the market enough to make actual literature essentially a leisure activity. Sure there was always crap, derivative filler books — it’s just that the ratio will now be 1000x worse and the better of the books just won’t justify the funding for intensive work and novel research that they used to, so even the good ones will probably be worse. Yet another example of the efficiency-obsessed more cheaper > less more expensive mentality making our world worse.

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shakabrah

We need this for technical books. I was a chapter into something the other day before deciding I’d been hoodwinked into reading someone’s ChatGPT output

PessimalDecimal

I've noticed entire publishers on Amazon which are just fly-by-night AI slop, probably printed on-demand too.

For example, I stumbled on https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DT4TKY58 and had never heard of the author. Their page (https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B004LUETE8) suggested they were incredibly prolific in a huge number of areas which already felt off. No information about "Robert Johnson" was available either. The publisher, HiTeX Press (https://www.amazon.com/s?k=HiTeX+Press) has a few other authors with similarly generic names and no information available about them, each the author of numerous books spanning a huge array of topics.

It feels even more bewildering and disheartening to see AI slop come into the physical world like this.

zorked

This is inverted. AI books should come with warning labels similar to those found in cigarettes.

JumpCrisscross

> AI books should come with warning labels

I disagree. AI use is diffuse. An author is specific. Having people label their work as AI free is accountable in a way trying to require AI-generated work be labeled is not.

> similar to those found in cigarettes

Hyperbole undermines your argument. We have decades of rigorous and international evidence for the harms from cigarettes. We don’t for AI.

zkmon

This idealistic objective is highly commendable, but the fight could be futile. As you would need AI to do the work of detection. Then there will be another movement to do "organic detection" of "organic content". And the story goes on.

Think of interview candidates rejected by AI and employees fired by AI, or that case where a snack pack was identified by AI as a weapon in a student's pocket. This will lead to "organic decision making".

Papazsazsa

Nothing futile about defense of humanity! Art forgers and technofrauds will never be true participants in culture.

JumpCrisscross

> you would need AI to do the work of detection

Why?

3mc

I always wondered if there was some way to make a "proof" that some piece of work was human created.

A recording of the entire process of it's creation is one possible answer (though how are deep fakes countered)

But maybe there is some cryptographic solution involving single direction provable timestamps..

Does anyone know of anyone working on such a thing?

akudha

This depends on the subject of the book, but there are enough books written pre-1970 (or some other year one is comfortable with, before the era of “book spinners”, AI etc) to last multiple lifetimes. I used to spend hours and hours in bookstores, but so many books these days (AI or otherwise) don’t seem that interesting. Many, many books could just be 3 page articles, but stretched to 150 page books.

So yeah, simply filtering by year published could be a start

ijk

Buying a book scanner and frequenting used book stores seems like a past time to start that'll pay off in the long term.

haunter

> some piece of work was human created

Are thoughts and ideas creations? Or you just mean the literal typewriting?

How do you prove an idea is original and you have been in a vacuum not influenced _by anything at all_?

If anything The Hunger Games is the perfect example that you can get away with anything you want, and that was almost 20 years ago.

Everything is a remix https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJPERZDfyWc or if you hate your life https://tvtropes.org/

georgefrowny

They keep trying this with digital cameras signing the data and it's always a complete failure.

It's a social problem at heart and piling on yet more technology won't fix it.

add-sub-mul-div

Right, the same assholes gaming the system with slop would just game whatever system you tried to put around them. It's not like you can stand over someone the whole time they work to ensure it's real.

kvirani

An authoring device akin to this, perhaps? https://roc.camera/

JumpCrisscross

> wondered if there was some way to make a "proof" that some piece of work was human created

Self certification backed by a war chest to sue those who lie.

Papazsazsa

No need to invent more tech to mitigate techslop.

People will know by reputation alone, which cannot be fabricated.

nvr219

Maybe they could prove it using blockchain!!!

asmor

This has the same problems any DRM has. People who want to bypass the process will find a way, but legitimate people get caught up in weird messes.

I'm so happy I'm not doing any school/academic work anymore, because AI writing detection tools (I learned English though reading technical docs; of course my writing style is a bit clinical) and checking the edit history in a Google Docs document would've both fucked me over.

codazoda

I wonder how this works since authors are more and more likely to use AI to spell check, fix wording, find alternate words, and all manner of other things. It might be useful to understand the “rules” for what “human” means.

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Avicebron

I too am open for business, for a modest fee I will arrange to meet a book publisher in nyc for a firm handshake to cement a declaration from them that they are publishing books not made with AI. I will then send a formal email saying they may publish a little gold star on their book, and my preeminence as a member of the literary elite should carry it through. I'm doing this for the people because I _care_.

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neilv

This is a big problem, though I would be slow to trust anyone purporting to address this problem. (Though, to their credit, this Books by People team is more credible than the bog-standard pair of 20yo Bay Area techbro grifters I expected.)

Reportedly, Kindle has already been flooded with "AI" generated books. And I've heard complaints from authors, of AI superficial rewritings of their own books being published by scammers. (So, not only "AI, write a YA novel, to the market, about a coming of age vampire young woman small town friends-to-lovers romance", but "AI, copy the top-ranked fiction books in each category on Amazon, and substitute names of things, and how things are worded.")

For now, Kindle is already requiring publishers/authors to certify on which aspects of the books AI tools were used (e.g., text, illustrations, covers), something about how the tools were used (e.g., outright generation, assistive with heavy human work, etc.), and which tools were used. So that self-reporting is already being done somewhere, just not exposed to buyers yet.

That won't stop the dishonest, but at least it will help keep the honest writers honest. For example, if you, an honest writer, consider for a moment using generative AI to first-draft a scene, an awareness that you're required to disclose that generative AI use will give you pause, and maybe you decide that's not a direction you want to go with your work, nor how you want to be known.

Incidentally, I've noticed a lot of angry anti-generative-AI sentiment among creatives like writers and artists. Much more than among us techbros. Maybe the difference is that techbros are generally positioning ourselves to profit from AI, from copyright violations, selling AI products to others, and investment scams.

harvey9

Just another rent-seeker. I mostly choose books based on word of mouth recommendations or liking other things by the same author. This is very resistant to slop from AI and to the large amounts of rubbish that has always been published.

ctoth

An organization with zero technical capability charging publishers recurring fees to certify something they can't actually verify?

So this is the thing that Zitron and Doctorow are always talking about? Naked grifting in the AI industry?

debesyla

> can't actually verify

Why? Can't it be done same way it's done with copyrighted material: by checking the authors process?

(Because at least in EU law permits writing basically same thing, if both authors reached it organically - have a trail of drafts, other writing process documents. As long as you proved you came upon it without influence from the other author.)

Proving that you done it without AI can be similar. For example - just videotaping whole writing process.

Now, as for if anyone cares about such proofs is another topic.

bonoboTP

I sneak out to the toilet and ask chatgpt what should happen in the next chapter. Or do you stick a camera there too?

constantcrying

>Proving that you done it without AI can be similar. For example - just videotaping whole writing process.

Which proves very little. It also would be something which authors would absolutely loath to do.

Papazsazsa

No technical ability required to verify humans as humans. You just have to close your laptop and meet at a coffee shop. Surprisingly many deals are done this way, because humans like other humans.