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FBI Agents Visit Anti-ICE Protester: "Your name was brought up."

dec0dedab0de

The agents may not have learned anything from Serafini, but the visit — which took place one day before the No Kings protest — did accomplish one thing: Serafini decided against going to No Kings. He was spooked.

That is exactly the chilling effect on speech that the FBI investigating political matters risks creating.

Ugh, I might have to start caring about politics again, this is unacceptable.

kiernanmcgowan

You may not care about politics, but politics cares about you.

pacomerh

not caring about politics is a crime these days. This is just one example of completely unacceptable things happening.

Steltek

Actually, it seems like the opposite. Caring about politics is now a crime.

rolandog

You should! We shouldn't let ourselves be dragged silently into the dark times. In my opinion, it's our obligation to try to understand the landscape and to make sure that everyone — across the different political beliefs — is well off... Only then do you get a system that rewards merit, instead of whatever the heck you want to call what is being dropped on us.

zerosizedweasle

The hour is fucking late now. Do it while you still can. People too busy pumping the stock market to see they are losing their right.

null

[deleted]

FranzFerdiNaN

“Not caring” means you are privileged enough that you could look away for a long time. Politics definitely cared about you though.

AnimalMuppet

Well, let's see. There were 7 million people at No Kings. I don't think one-on-one FBI visits is a scalable tactic to try to reduce the numbers.

So maybe this particular visit was not just about "chilling effect"?

cosmicgadget

How many people do you think need FBI visits to chill those 7 million? All of them?

tzs

It could not have a chilling affect on the next day's No Kings protest, except on that individual and maybe others he told about it that day.

But now the story is out, which can have a chilling affect on many people considering attending future No Kings or similar protests.

null

[deleted]

cluckindan

You are now on a list.

rolandog

That says more about the list makers.

atm3ga

When federal agents, such as the FBI, attempt to question you, it is strongly advised that you do not talk to them without a lawyer present. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution guarantees you the right to remain silent and to have an attorney. There were several instances in this account where Serafini's answers could be used to paint his involvement as not so innocent.

kcplate

> When federal agents, such as the FBI, attempt to question you, it is strongly advised that you do not talk to them without a lawyer present.

Good advice but it should be any law enforcement…not just federal agents.

“I don’t answer questions without my attorney present. Leave me your card and I will have my lawyer contact you” are powerful words.

FranzFerdiNaN

Shame the constitution only matters when Trump or his cronies say it does. The American justice system has been broken and the cause came from within.

93po

this is factually not accurate, trump's actions are constantly getting legally challenged and blocked

doom2

Just not by SCOTUS (cf. the shadow docket which has not gone against Trump since May).

JakeStone

I've not had that kind of experience in over 30 years. I'm a bit older now, and I would hope that my response would be something similar to:

Me: "Am I under arrest?"

No: "I would like my attorney present before starting this discussion. Please provide me some contact information so we can schedule this."

Yes: "I wish to have my attorney present. I will not be answering any questions or discussing this matter."

Now, I don't know if I'm actually that brave, but I've at least got a plan.

cluckindan

Them: ”Have it your way”, handcuffs, car ride to black site, jumpsuit, seat in a military-leased civilian airplane, flight to El Salvador.

johnnyanmac

At this point, being a martyr as an African American whose ancestors have been on this land longer than the US existed is probably my best contribution to countering this regime. I've always wondered if I would need to put my body on the like the way my grandfather did in New Orleans.

Freedom2

That cannot happen in the US, I'm told, as it has the greatest protections by its God-given Constitution. The most beautiful protections.

xrd

I'm going to upvote everyone here, but beyond that, I don't really know what to do that I haven't already done.

johnnyanmac

Call your Respectives, donate where you can, and if you're active on social media: boost the voices you want to hear and let them get the word out.

And of course, keep your eyes peeled for any elections in your area. No matter how minor a position. If you can donate / volunteer for their campaigns, all the better. These situations will need to be fixed bottom up in the long term, so you never know what comptroller today becomes a senate tomorrow.

Judgmentality

If you're American, go on strike. Nobody gives a shit about people holding signs and protesting peacefully. If you can't do anything to make the opposition care about you, don't expect them to do anything other than ignore you.

johnnyanmac

> Nobody gives a shit about people holding signs and protesting peacefully.

Do both. The person in this story clearly was not ignore.

They do in fact care otherwise they wouldn't be so beligerent about it. It takes 3% of the country protesting to get undeniable attention and last weekend was getting close to that threshold. 330m Americans or so, the threshold is around 10m. And this weekend was counted with 7m.

Your voice does matter, don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

cosmicgadget

I don't know, it'd be kind of funny if there weren't any protests, just everyone goes home and plays GTA VI. It's not like the cause of the striking would be unknowable.

xrd

Ok. I'm a contractor. I live in Florida with zero protections. I have three kids. I'm 51 and have had a hell of a time finding work the last few years. I'm pretty scared of doing this, honestly.

Judgmentality

I'm not telling you how to live your life. I'm pointing out that peaceful protest is pointless. And a strike without organization is also pointless.

There are no easy answers here. If you want change, expect to fight for it.

Vortigaunt

This post will be censored in 5, 4, 3, 2....

afavour

Censored is perhaps strong. But yes, it’ll likely get flagged for being off topic or get downranked because of arguing. Which I understand to an extent but I also feel like we’re approaching five alarm fire for democracy levels.

When it’s too late a whole lot of people are going to look up from their terminals and say “huh? What’s going on? You know, I try to avoid anything too political.”

EDIT: and it’s gone

rolandog

It's becoming increasingly harder to ignore the censorship happening on the front page.

Which is understandable, given the rock and hard place that is current US dictatorship ...

But, are there better platforms to discuss tech (and to discuss the misuse of tech, like the current thread)?

johnnyanmac

I've been sounding alarm bells since the early DOGE days. The site just casts then off.

Bluesky is probably the best place if you want to communicate directly with policy makers (ones who likely aren't assisting the regime). I personally talk about political stuff on Tildes as a smaller community that doesn't tolerate blatant hate. There's tech threads on Tildes as well, but to a lesser extent.

I don't have a reddit accout, but I generally also just browse a few reddit subs to get the fist gist of any major news. Just for 15 minutes or so. Politics for general stuff, Law for oversteps (thoighthough these days there's a lot of overlap), economics and economy for any more trade war nonsense.

esseph

I think there should be an account setting to see/not see posts with some kind of tag, like "politics", "LLM", "product post", "ask hn", etc.

Then people can choose what is in their feed without censoring extremely important topics with large impacts.

bakies

unfortunate, but i'm thinking these rules keep this forum a good tech forum. I do like getting in here before the flag and check any comments that do get through.

chews

Flock security now get's Ring camera data so the YC sponsored panopticon is pretty much here now.

johnnyanmac

Can't wait to see civil war declared and HN still tries to suppress that nothing is wrong (I pray this is wrong, but who knows at this point? I'd say we're already at 4 star alarm bells. I could finally use my favorite meme from Avatar: The Last Airbender

"There is not War in America. [FLAGGED]"

slater

It's gone from the front page.

edit: and flagged...

e584

It was at #2 minutes ago, ridiculous.

slg

Currently, number 1 on the front page. I expect it to drop in minutes.

EDIT: 3 minutes. That is how long it lasted after my comment before it was flag killed. I truly wonder what the line will be for all the technolibertarians and the "I don't care about politics" folks here to wake up to what is currently going on in this country.

westmeal

durr this isn't about vibe coding or web frameworks people will forget in 2 years why is this on my frontpage etc etc

esseph

Nailed it

mickle00

This administration is a basket of deplorables

Jordan-117

God, I hated that phrase. Not because it was wrong, but because it was so weirdly soft and indirect. A bundle of ignobles! An assortment of the unseemly!

They're gleefully cruel fascist bigots.

dr-smooth

A greasy KFC bucket of deplorables

jmspring

[flagged]

krapp

[flagged]

cluckindan

When you protest against the abuses of Gestapo, the SS will come for you.

duxup

>When you see the signs, and they’re all made out of a beautiful, beautiful paper. Beautiful, nice, stiff, very expensive paper with beautiful wood handles all the same. All the same color. They come from very expensive printing machines. These are are people that write out their signs in a basement, that believe in something. These are paid anarchists.

-Trump

This man is a child with questionable critical thinking skills. Now we have agents out running around chasing his imagination because he thinks nice paper and printing is hard to come by.

rdiddly

It's more like an admission that they fund astroturf campaigns themselves.

hiddencost

Or one of the most accomplished liars in history intent on turning one of the most powerful democracies in history into a dictatorship...

cluckindan

Very passive choices of words considering the turning has already happened.

rodrodrod

It's Friday, a timely reminder that you have a right to STFU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTurSi0LhJs

Or for a longer form explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

Waterluvian

Do we ever learn why these posts get censored or is it just going to keep fuelling conspiracies? Unless fuelling conspiracies is actually less bad for the offender because there _is_ a conspiracy!

slater

Not technically censored, just off-topic.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF

It is technically censored. The ostensible reason for it is that the story is off-topic for this forum; because of that, it is censored.

> to suppress or delete as objectionable

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/censor

Waterluvian

I mean, yeah, that’s one of those subjective things. I think freedom of speech topics are pretty closely embedded with tech and entrepreneurship whether we like it or not. But I appreciate if that’s not how moderators see it. As long as that kind of choice moderation made consistently. I feel like I see far more off topic posts live longer. And for sensitive topics, a short explanation might be worth it.

Moderation at scale, even HN scale, is hard!

mostlysimilar

> I think freedom of speech topics are pretty closely embedded with tech and entrepreneurship whether we like it or not.

That's a useful fiction, useful until it's not. This post[1] was on the front page briefly today. These people aren't obscure or powerless, they're billionaires, embedded in the current administration, etc.

> Then I started noticing something I couldn’t ignore. Smart people I respected—especially in cryptocurrency—were casually discussing feudalism. Not as history or provocation, but as serious proposals for organizing society. “Democracy and freedom are incompatible.” “Most people aren’t capable of self-governance.” “Elite overproduction is the problem—we educated too many people above their station.”

> These weren’t fringe cranks. Peter Thiel writing that democracy and freedom are incompatible. Curtis Yarvin publishing blueprints for corporate monarchy. An entire neo-reactionary apparatus in Silicon Valley while I optimized payment systems. And they were explicit: the democratic experiment failed, constitutional constraints prevent necessary action, most people should accept subordinate roles, the intelligent few should rule.

[1] https://www.notesfromthecircus.com/p/the-coming-clash-of-civ...

CharlesW

Absolutely, but the mods here are great and I trust their opinion.

The panopticon is built on the technology and culture at the center of HN, so hopefully they have sympathy for my not being able to predict that the post would be flagged. I think it's important to understand and discuss the escalating technology-based erosion of our privacy and rights, but I'll guess we'll just do that at the monthly Antifa meetings. /s

krapp

- Some people will flag any political content they see, believing all political content to be off-topic.

- Some people support the current regime and will flag any content they consider anti-establishment.

- Hacker News is designed so that it takes very few flags to stick, so as to aggressively filter signal from noise, for as greedy a definition of "noise" as possible.

There's no conspiracy here, it's just Hacker News being Hacker News. If you want to be able to discuss these things freely, find another platform. Otherwise just accept that any "political" content will very likely be flagged at some point.

cluckindan

Everything on this site is political. YC is very much a political entity, they are simply censoring what to an outsider would be YC’s political opposition.

krapp

In some cases, certainly, although I suspect most people simply don't care and just want to engage with "technical" content.

It doesn't matter what arguments you make or who you make them too, they aren't going to stop flagging.

bakies

It's against the sites rules.

slg

That is highly debatable. Stories about "politics, or crime" are allowed if "they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon"[1]. I'm not sure what to make of the word "interesting" there, but this is clearly a new phenomenon that is deeply concerning and worth discussing.

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

esseph

"The site" should look around and reconsider its self-importance.

oceansky

What the hell is an "immigration radical"?

Is FBI being instructed that protesting ice is antifa terrorism?

This is super concerning.

dragonwriter

> Is FBI being instructed that protesting ice is antifa terrorism?

Yes, both the President and the Attorney General have been doing this openly, and explicitly citing it as the basis for their instructions to federal law enforcement. They have also been prosecuting based on false testimony of federal officers about assaults (and being forced to dismiss a stunningly high number of filed cases on that basis), and still using the numbers from those false claims as basis for asserting a huge spike in assaults on federal offficers, which also is being cited directly as justification for reallocating resources and setting enforcement prioirities.

acdha

That’s exactly why they tried to claim there’s a terrorist “Antifa” group: since there’s no such organization or defining principles, there’s a lot of gray area to investigate anyone they find politically incorrect.

duxup

Everything that isn't in lock step with the administration is "radical" or a similar verb.

null

[deleted]

kcplate

> What the hell is an "immigration radical"?

Probably something similar to those “domestic terrorist” parents who were investigated by the DOJ for speaking out at school board meetings in 2021?

beloch

If protesting ICE is anti-fascist, what does that make ICE? Sending the FBI to the homes of law-abiding citizens who happen to be planning to protest against government actions... What's that? More Americans need to start asking themselves questions like these.

I'm in Canada, but what's going on South of the border has become highly concerning. It's starting to feel like Belgium up here.

elAhmo

There is no such thing as antifa

mosburger

There is, but it's an adjective, not a noun.

Krasnol

Sure there is but it's not an organisation.

rufus_foreman

>> There is no such thing as antifa

That's like saying there is no such thing as communism. There is such a thing as communism, it is an ideology, not an organization. The Communist Party USA is an organization, not an ideology.

You can fill in the rest.

westmeal

[flagged]

xdennis

> What the hell is an "immigration radical"?

There are people who think that every person on the planet should be able to immigrate to the US (or other first world countries). This is a radical position as it couldn't possibly work.

(I don't know about this person, I'm not saying it's widespread, just saying what a radical is.)