The MacBook Air 2025 Is Now Cheaper Than a Random Mid-Range Windows Laptop
126 comments
·October 20, 2025bryanlarsen
Fade_Dance
Resale value is also considerably higher on an Apple laptop though, so it probably nets out long term.
Every time I've sold on my Windows laptop it's basically junk value after 4 years. Even when I buy used initially for half price, I'm consistently amazed that they keep dropping to literally nearly zero.
The only way to win is to be the ultimate last in line buyer of the out of date but previously high end Thinkpads and Inspirons for $246 or wherever the EBay auctions terminate.
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endymion-light
As someone that's been a lifelong windows user, i'm finally switching to a mac this month.
I have a large rig that I run as a dual linux/windows machine, but the quality of windows laptops have been getting poorer and poorer and the OS is increasingly becoming incredibly intrusive while removing core features.
I want to be able to search without it taking 5 mintues. I used to be incredibly pro windows laptops due to aspects like repairability, but i've had a horrific experience with Lenovo just trying to get a keyboard repaired. In the end, if I need to choose between two systems, both of which are unrepairable, i'd much rather have the one that will last me longer.
I don't want to use my singular experience as a data-point, but I'm someone that has never even thought about buying a mac before this, but the poor quality of windows OS has forced me.
jonhohle
Apple hardware is as good as it’s ever been, but macOS has seen better days. The fun of everything being scriptable, consistency throughout the system, and even stability has been replaced with transitional pains of a new application framework, iOS-ification of much of the system, and inconsistent behavior that I have trouble reasoning about, despite using Macs as my frontend almost exclusively for the past 20 years.
That being said, I bought an old Dell last year for dev work (primarily Linux) and I can’t believe most of the world puts up with Windows. It seems like desktop computing is an afterthought.
endymion-light
Yeah, fully agree - and I should say this is specifically for my travel laptop. I have a desktop PC running Linux that I use and remote in from my normal laptop, but I've had a lot of issues with linux working smoothly on a laptop development.
i've seen the poor quality of MacOS recently, but it's relative compared to the despair I feel with windows.
dijit
Agree completely.
MacOS has never been worse. However it has never been this much better than Windows.
thebytefairy
What issues do you face on windows? I use both Mac and windows daily and I can't say I entirely prefer one over the other, and in recent years I've run into more noticeable bugs on macOS (although it does look better)
ho_schi
Keyboard Repair Lenovo ThinkPad:
X13: 60 seconds
X1 and everything from Apple: You’re literally doomed. Complete disassembly required. At least Lenovo documents well how to remove the base cover, battery, mainboard, display…
All of that pain for 1 mm less height and a sharp palmrest.
I surprised how much pain people with Windows can suffer and keep using it. With weird arguments like “I forced to use that application” and “Ans Linux doesn’t do FSR4.1 something”. You decided that you need that?
maccard
I’ve been using laptops for 25 years, and I have never, not once, had a keyboard need to be replaced.
I worked in an IT repair place for 5 years where we repaired laptops for customers. I can probably count the number of times we got people asking for keyboard swaps. For context of scale, we probably handled 30-70 computers a week, the vast majority of which were “user serviceable” repair jobs
dsr_
I've been using laptops for 30 years, and I have had three keyboards need to be replaced for 1-3 keys having mechanical problems, plus an HP which got its keyboard replaced four times before being dustbinned.
I've also seen a large percentage of MacBook butterfly switch keyboards require a complete return to Apple, for about 2 years.
Yizahi
Probably people suffer in silence, afraid in advance about costs or potential hassle. People who use external keyboard may ignore issues altogether. On my old HP Zbook half of the keys at the left side register with issues. But I probably won't even bother with replacing them, until laptop will die completely.
hagbard_c
I've replaced 6 laptop keyboards on machines I've used ranging from consumer HP and Acer to a number of Thinkpads and most recently a Macbook Air. Some of them I replaced just because I wanted a different layout, others because they were worn out or broken. The Macbook Air keyboard was - of course - in the latter category as all these things seem to end up doing with the Q to O keys going A.W.O.L due to what I consider to be a design problem. Needless to say that the Apple machine was the hardest to fix due to the repair-hostile design. What is a quick 4-minuted job on a Thinkpad - a device known for having good keyboards - is a several hour slog on one of those Apple trinkets involving nail clippers to remove half of the rivets which did not come out of the frame because their heads ripped off. Keyboards are wear items and should be user-replaceable but that does not fit with the Fruit Factory Philosophy which instead insists on replacing the whole top shell. I go this Macbook Air for free because its keyboard had failed so maybe I should thank the FF for furthering the cause of the throwaway consumer society but there is no question here that these devices are designed to live just long enough and no longer and that they often fail on the wrong side of that lifetime.
Short: keyboards fail, quite often. They are wear items which should be user replaceable.
dewey
> X13: 60 seconds
If you know what you are doing, and have that spare part including the correct screwdriver and screws in the shelf next to your desk?
How often does your keyboard fail? I've never had that happen in all my computing life and the other parts are usually not that easy to change for any regular person on a laptop. Not sure if that's the scenario to optimize for.
ho_schi
For regular users with a consumer laptop, a damaged key or keyboard means:
Laptop defunct. Use an external keyboard if not affordable.
Used my X220 for ten years, handled it with care, but after ten years a new keyboard was a nice uplift. You can also switch languages but especially also the layout between ANSI- and ISO.
Buying an Apple device with ANSI in Europe? Pain. ThinkPads? Buy anything. 30 EUR and new keyboard.
dijit
I mean, the irony is that the keyboards most people associate with failing are the Apple ones (2015-2020).
... Which are nearly impossible to replace, and are what the modern Thinkpads are trying to emulate.
The old X13's would almost never fail, so replacing them was never a consideration.
(also, screws are not that annoying, but I agree with the rest, most companies aren't/weren't replacing keyboards on laptops)
easton
weirdly, i've done the repair on one of the previous X1 generations. It was a pain to disassemble most of the machine (~2 hours?) but it was at least doable. i don't think you can do it on a Mac at all?
ho_schi
Respect. May biggest adventure was a screen upgrade for a X13 (Hint: HiDPI requires a bigger cable). Luckily the mainboard could remain in place.
The procedure for keyboard replacement should be similar between an X1 and MacBook. They are somehow “layered” to be cheap and flat. It was already a pain with the MacBooks from 2008.
endymion-light
I don't use an X13. The Lenovo Laptop I have requires a complete disassembly, with the warranty being incredibly limited. I would much rather have the capability of improved performance and hardware.
I might consider switching to an X13, but Lenovo support software is incredibly intrusive, and I've learned to despise windows.
However, I also use a large amount of applications like Touch Designer, which is not available on Linux. I'd much rather own a mac for travel purposes.
ho_schi
ThinkPad + Linux = Love
I can only recommend to use Linux by wanting Linux. This way you can replace stuff which is holding you back.
Just leaving Windows because Microsoft sucks is often failing, you are still within the vendor lock-in of the applications. The authors only port if they
I made a clear cut and lost my favorite game. Luckily Valve decided some years later to port it natively to Linux.
Which leads to two options: Drop proprietary applications. And spending money on Linux support.
Design applications seem one of the most troublesome areas?
csomar
On the other hand, Apple has better coverage. Good luck getting parts for some random laptop especially outside the US.
hagbard_c
Everything I've ever needed can be found on eBay, Aliexpress, iFixit and elsewhere. That is everything from drive caddies for old expired Thinkpads, CCFL tubes for Acer and HP consumer models, inverters for the same, CPUs, random lids for machines missing those, etc. Also, keyboards for those terrible Apple models which require the equivalent of open heart surgery to replace them. You might need to get one of those bags with 120 tiny screws with it if those are not included, make sure to check.
heresie-dabord
The year I dumped all Apple hardware was when I discovered that the Corporatron was deprecating my perfectly capable Mac hardware -- via an XML property in a hidden plist -- simply because Corporatron decreed that my hardware was insufficient to "upgrade to the latest OS".
But I modified that plist and my Mac ran the latest OS just fine.
Microsoft has done the same thing with the transition from MW10 to MW11. Corporatron is doing something wrong and bad for the environment... to satisfy the needs of Corporatron.
I have long preferred the freedom of GNU/Linux. But Corporatron is making a zealot of me. ^_^
jonhohle
This year Apple decided to drop support for FireWire hardware (which I still use). For some things like optical drives it’s still the best option, especially with a lot of hardware attached. It’s not my trigger to defect, but it’s getting closer.
DiabloD3
My condolences.
As a Linux user that once ran a Linux-only household from the day Win95 came out to sometime during the 8.2 beta (which was renamed to 10 before release), and has ran both since then, but also tried to run OSX for a year (during the 10.8 days)...
You're going to hate it. You're going to wonder why OSX is so shoddy, why they just Think Different(tm) on completely random things, ignore their own app UI/UX design guidelines they impose on other developers, make the most asinine and infuriatingly anti-user decisions, and wonder why text rendering quality is so bad on normal DPI monitors, but is fine on hidpi/Retina.
Nobody makes it and stays a Mac user today unless you're a real masochist.
prmph
Yeah Apple hardware is good, but oh boy, there are many design choices in MacOS that are real head-scratchers
- The over-reliance on weird key combinations and touchpad gestures, that you have no way of guessing until you look it up, and if it is for something you only perform once in a while, you need to look it up every time you need to do it.
- The refusal to adopt the best parts of Windows's file explorer in the Finder app
- Bad window size/position management that is seemingly never fixed
- The lack of support for proper virtualization
- And more
ho_schi
The window-management of macOS is pain. As the application menus. Outside of the application windows! Core applications like Finder are so bad, that even Apple-Fans admit it (not lack of features, it is the crippled UI). And they keep using this desktop-metaphor.
The UX of all Windows applications is crap. Everyone is using an own toolkit and neglects design guidelines. But the worst thing is, setup and maintenance are the biggest pain ever.
If you can, Linux. If you must, macOS. If you prefer agony, Windows.
PS: Simple hint, never do something like Microsoft. Chances are high, that it is good.
endymion-light
I still run Linux, just on my main PC where I have far more control over hardware.
Honestly, I've learned that there's a mental trade-off, and while i've got my linux system set up perfectly on my home PC, for a laptop I would much rather have something that just works.
I ran my old laptop with multiple different distros, from Ubuntu to Manjaro to Fedora. While I love the customizability of linux, there would always be some sitaution where I need to have something ready at the last minute but the driver isn't compatible or I haven't set up a specific acceleration etc.
It's a balance, I'm happy with that development process on my home PC, but if i'm travelling on a train I want something that I can rely on working. Windows used to be that to a certain extent, and for me it's no longer capable of doing so.
commandersaki
Nobody makes it and stays a Mac user today unless you're a real masochist.
Funny, for me it is win/linux that is painful because of decent accessibility software. Ever since switching from linux to mac in 2003, mac has great accessibility tools for vision impairment out of box experience and has never let me down for the last 22 years. With windows the tooling is unusable. With linux i've tried on and off over the years and the tools keep changing or are inconsistent and/or broken.
randomgermanguy
If the alternative is a Linux-distro, likely UX won't be much better/more-consistent when applications use different UI kits/styles etc.
Even Though Apple is doing a shitty job with their walled garden, a garden is still more organized than a jungle of different distro's/applications/frameworks/etc.
(at least in my limited experience)
seedless-sensat
Adding an alternate data point, I was a heavy Linux desktop user, and had an adjustment period when my workplace gave me a Mac 10 years ago. Yes there are random differences. However, now I wouldn't look back for my personal compute needs.
Jnr
I have been actively using all of them - Linux, Windows and macOS for the past 15-20 years and currently Linux has the best desktop environments possible. macOS is still stuck in 2010 and it is quite painful to work with my Macbook even with all the tweaks and modifications. Sure, you can live with it, but there is always something annoying about it and you can't do anything about it. Apple has the best laptops but the worst desktop environment that does all the window management, etc.
beaker52
> Nobody makes it and stays a Mac user today unless you're a real masochist.
That’s a curious take for a Linux user. Sounds a little like you might be projecting with that one?
Yoric
I'm a longtime (and happy) Linux user, but I have to admit that for many applications, UX remains much better on macOS.
Jnr
I don't care about the UX of the specific applications, most of them work on Mac/Windows/Linux anyway. What I care about is the window manager and macOS has a terrible window manager. That is why I am using Aerospace on macOS, and it makes things better, but it's still far from what Linux has to offer.
lostmsu
I bought $600 HP Omnibook 5, and that machine is a beast with its Ryzen AI 350.
miga
Because 8GiB is insufficient for most work in 2025, so cheap Macbook is simply better Chromebook at this point: https://videocardz.com/newz/pcgh-demonstrates-why-8gb-gpus-a...
And 16GiB VRAM insufficient for games:
https://videocardz.com/newz/pcgh-demonstrates-why-8gb-gpus-a...
Also, 3nm M4 is going head-to-head with older Ryzen AI 365 in everything except for power efficiency: https://nanoreview.net/en/cpu-compare/apple-m4-vs-amd-ryzen-...
When compared in multicore against Ryzen AI Pro laptops (high end), even Apple M5 are behind in the dust...
https://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/compare_cpu-amd_ryzen_ai_max_p...
Despite awesome progress with its latest ARM processors, Apple was caught behind Ryzen, and is threatened by next generation of Zen processors.
noelwelsh
I haven't purchased a new Mac for nearly a decade, instead getting refurbished models from https://www.hoxtonmacs.co.uk/ It's very easy on the wallet if you're getting models that are a few generations old, and honestly, if the MacBook Air is something you are considering you definitely don't need the current generation.
rsynnott
This is particularly true for M1 and up; for the vast majority of users, any M1 with 16GB RAM or more is going to be _fine_.
asimovDev
I second this. I got a 14in M3 Max with 96GB of RAM (although 512GB storage but not a big deal with NAS and external storage) for the price of a 14in M4 Pro 24gb/1tb back in May from the unsold stock in my country's online store. It's honestly way overkill for what I do and the only time I really use the power is when I load large LLM into the memory once in a while or build a decently sized project (rarity since I mostly work on my own stuff which is much smaller in scale so far). But for the price I would've paid for a "weaker" laptop, it's a banger deal
hereaiham
Interesting! More details on this please? like what country and how the prices compare.. This doesn't seem to be available on Apple's online stores in Scandinavia.
asimovDev
It was in Verkkokauppa (finnish version of amazon, crudely speaking) in Finland. They were marked as refurbished on the storepage but the boxes came sealed with 4 cycles on the battery and no visible sign of use (I think I ran some utility to check for SSD usage and it was pretty low but I didn't do it immediately after turning on can't base anything off that).
Either apple refurbished a product return and then resold back through Verkkokauppa? The machine came with Sonoma 14.3 or 14.4 which is well after the November 2023 manufacturing date. But sealed box threw me off, cause the unboxing felt exactly the same as for a brand new macbook. Warranty I got from the store is also the same you would get for a brand new item.
nonetheless, the value is great. 24/512 14inc M4 Pro costs 2500eur in Finland brand new for reference and I got this M3 Max for 2999
dzonga
or buy refurbished from the apple site. better deal too.
everything i buy is refurbished from apple. better deal than new.
noelwelsh
I find the Apple doesn't have the range that others have, but yeah it's a good option when they have what you are after. I've also had good refurbished electronics from Backmarket. I'm sure there are similar in other countries.
dontlaugh
If they have what you want. Often it’s specs with too little memory.
piva00
Apple's official refurbs aren't available in every country though. Seems to be available in the UK but not here in Sweden, don't really know the reasoning since it's available in Germany.
asimovDev
I saw the link to refurbished pop up in the Apple Store app on my iPhone recently in Finland (it either lead to the normal product page or just didn't load, I cannot remember). Apple refurb might be coming to Nordics in the near future
lordofgibbons
I really wish these laptops were compatible with Linux. I'd buy one today.
kokada
Same here. I am thinking of getting one refurbished M1 or M2 machine to get it to running Asahi Linux, but even then there are a few important things that seems to be unsupported (like external monitors).
whitehexagon
I'm running a 4k monitor from the HDMI port on my M1 MBP with Asahi. I was thinking the same, so discovering a hdmi port was quite a nice suprise, especially since only 3xUSB-C
kokada
I was thinking of getting a MacBook Air and I think it doesn't have a HDMI port. But good to know that the HDMI port in MBP works. I will take a look at them.
dep_b
256GB is unworkable
ShortStretto
I and many others have zero need for more storage, this machine beats any non-oled windows laptop for screen at the pricerange, the CPU/GPU combo beats it on speed. Battery is a non-discussion (although my only windows laptop experience is work laptop, 4 hours on a good day).
Just buy more if you need it or cloud storage or a nas idk man, theres solutions.
Or buy windows, the choice is there.
whizzter
NAS or Cloud storage doesn't help much if your Xcode,node_modules,etc installs for a developer starts filling up the disk.
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Noaidi
And this is where “right to repair” dies…
trueismywork
No. Right to repair dies with bad quality laptops windows manufacturers make.
norman784
On my work laptop I use only 80gb, I just need the corporate software (that is mostly cloud apps) and my dev environment (that is what takes the most space), here I disagree. Now for private use, I do agree.
Yoric
I code in Rust. I need more space than that :)
s0sa
For what use case? I doubt the target user for the air would need anything more than what USB 4 + external SSD can make up for.
tonyedgecombe
Only for people who need more storage.
Also Apple likes to sell extra iCloud storage.
saagarjha
I work on it
floundy
My Mac has 256GB. Just checked, I’m using 90GB. I have a 500GB SSD always plugged in for Steam games.
Media goes on my RAID1 NAS. Whose boot drive is running on a 32GB SSD.
As long as I have enough space to install the programs I use I don’t see the need for more boot drive storage. Network and external storage are cheaper and more convenient.
Noaidi
And you can’t make it “workable“ since the hard drive is unplaceable.
nomilk
I might be too informed by headlines than reality, but is my perception correct that the Windows experience is worsening by the year, particularly with regard to installation, configurability, UX, and privacy?
Apple certainly isn't perfect and has released some tripe lately (iOS 26) but I trust they'll work through the kinks. Apple seems to undulate, whereas Windows's trajectory seems net downward.
criddell
Windows isn't worsening in every regard. Some people don't like the telemetry so for them, that's a major privacy strike.
But the typical person taking home a new laptop from Best Buy doesn't care about installation. UX is the same as it has been for a while now - click on an icon and the application will start. Things like printers and scanners pretty much just work now.
The main market for Windows these days is corporate users and gamers and Microsoft is still doing a pretty good job of serving both of those markets.
klaussilveira
I would have to disagree. Since Windows 11 rolled out, calls from family have increased. This is not the usual "where is my printer", but basic stuff: "where are my files", "why can't i find the backup drive", "where is my computer", followed by "why do they change stuff".
Microsoft seems to insist on alienating a whole generation of computer users. I expect that this next Christmas I'll be doing a lot of Vista or 7 installations.
thebytefairy
You would go back to an old vulnerability infested OS that nobody builds for anymore instead of dealing with a UI change every few years? I have elderly parents on windows 11 and they've been fine, as long as the browser works, outlook loads, and they can scan and print (and tbh a Chromebook may be even better for non techy folks)
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tonyedgecombe
>Windows isn't worsening in every regard.
It feels like it is. I was watching my wife use Outlook the other day and was appalled by how slow it is. The last time I used it it was fine on 2000 era hardware, now it barely runs on 2025 hardware. It seems Microsoft has forgotten how to write good software.
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cbdevidal
I’ve been a Linux sysadmin for 25 years but always preferred Windows on my desktop. Reason: Software compatibility.
Windows 11 changed that. I have to reinstall it every six months or so due to instability. Last time it happened, multiple monitor capability disabled, audio out to my headphones kept disappearing (reboot to fix), and every few days upon rebooting, boot would fail requiring the Bitlocker PIN. I don’t install any weird drivers/software or visit weird sites, never get malware. It’s just Windows fragility. I really miss Win10.
I’m scheduled for a new laptop in June and I’ve decided it’s getting Ubuntu. I’m done. Windows 11 is just too fragile. I checked and all of the important apps I use now have near-perfect Linux counterparts. So the software compatibility issue is no longer a concern for me.
Bye, Microsoft!
whizzter
Those symptoms sounds like breaking hardware though, cold joints somewhere or even worse a swelling battery, I literally had a multi-monitor disappearance last week on an older machine because the broken battery somehow caused the Intel GFX chip driver to fail and a colleague had some bitlocker failure when his last machine died.
cbdevidal
If it were breaking hardware it would persist through the reinstall. But since the day I got it, it’s done this kind of thing about every six months and every time, a reinstall fixes it. For about six months, and then I need to do it again.
Work laptop has done a little better but if memory serves they did have to reinstall it about a year ago. I only use very bland software on that.
aaomidi
Ubuntu is.. not that good on the desktop
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cbdevidal
I just installed it on my son’s desktop with Cinnamon. It’s good enough for me. It’s the server OS I prefer to use so I’m most familiar with it. And has the same excellent software compatibility as Windows; Most tutorials assume Ubuntu.
Oh and I’ve been using Lubuntu for the past year on my road laptop. No issues.
Good enough.
floundy
That was my experience. I switched from Windows to Mac last fall with the incessant popups my PC wasn’t eligible for Win11. My pi-hole is no longer full of blocked requests to Microsoft tracking domains. I get the pleasure of using Win11 on my work laptop and the UI is a hilarious Frankenstein mishmash of mostly the new design, but every so often something is inexplicably skinned the “old” Win10 UI and looks super out of place.
A couple months ago I also switched from Android to iPhone. My overall perception is Apple isn’t perfect, but definitely does privacy better, and their guidelines for user experience in design avoid some of the more egregious things MS and Google have changed recently.
cbdevidal
I definitely prefer iPhone over Android—-until I need to copy and paste something. Then I just want to throw it out the nearest window. Android does text selection FAR better.
Other than that, you can have my iPhone when you take it from my cold, dead…
Noaidi
This is not Apple‘s price. This is Amazon‘s price. I don’t think Apple has much control over the price of their laptops on Amazon. Please anyone correct me if I’m wrong. I also think that Apple does not like when Amazon offers their products at a discount.
tonyedgecombe
Apple is making definitely setting the price. What they want is to keep that low price out of their own stores and web site but still keep it in front of price conscious consumers.
freefaler
They can forbid if Amazon is buying directly. However as with Wallmart it's beneficial for them to not provide discounts directly, but still have a "low-cost" alternative.
InMice
This article is just an affiliate link ad page, the macbook air latest or older version (still brand new) has been priced 700-850 on amazon since the M1. you can pick up older models new for ~750. These posts show up on cnn, macrumors, fox everywhere. Theyre ads
htamas
I'm still rocking a refurbished Macbook Pro 2015 CTO model. I was planning on upgrading this year or the next because of the Mx chip, but it seems like with the latest MacOS version, Apple software is falling to Jevons paradox: even though compute is becoming extremely fast, Apple is deciding to spend that extra compute on things not important to me (fancy glass effects).
I'm gonna wait out a bit longer and see if I can get away with using only my Linux Desktop.
nodja
The article is cherry picking data points to make a clickbait headline. Why is this being posted here?
dlenski
Got one for my wife here in Canada recently, where it's on a similarly good sale.
It's a nicely put together piece of _hardware_ and firmware, way way better than the garbage Dell laptops I have to use for work, which are heavy and hot and regularly fail to manage basic things like customizing sleep/wake behavior…
… but I personally am completely unwilling to use a Mac unless I'm getting paid and forced to.
I hate MacOS. I hate the UI, I hate the fiddly little ways that it hides information about real file paths and makes it unnecessarily difficult to uncover the tall ones. I hate hate hate all the broken stuck-in-the-80s non-GNU CLI tools, and the kludged-together stupidness of the networking stack compared to Linux.
Windows 11 is arguably worse than MacOS in many of these ways, but Linux with a Gnome or Cinnamon or XFCE desktop is far far better.
I hate the lack of full-size USB ports and HDMI. I don't care if it makes the laptop 3 mm thicker. I want them, in particular to be able to plug in my Logitech wireless mouse adapter and all my 10-15-year-old USB devices which still work fine.
I hate the keyboard and trackpad. I want a pointing stick and a trackpad with physical buttons. I want page up/down buttons and separate delete/backspace.
commandersaki
I dote on Apple for a lot of reasons; but this "article" is an advertisement.
netsharc
It's pretty disgusting.. "Hello ChatGPT, please write a few paragraphs to advertise this laptop. Bold the features about screen resolution, 3nm chip process, storage, and how they will make the user's experience amazing".
Only if you compare the sale price of the Mac to the list price of the Windows machine. Which isn't fair, especially since Windows laptops go on sale far more frequently and deeply than Mac laptops do. A lunar lake machine with 16gb RAM and a small SSD should be $200 cheaper than that.