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US Dept of Interior denies canceling largest solar project after axing review

noitpmeder

So did they cancel it or didn't they?

If they deny doing it, what blocks the project from continuing?

more_corn

No silly. They just canceled the PERMIT for the project. The developers are welcome to resubmit seven separate applications in the future which will all be processed at snail’s pace and the arbitrarily canceled again.

renewiltord

[flagged]

grafmax

Environmental regulations are the real reason we have climate change, not polluting for profit. Brilliant!

chris_va

You make an argument as if all environmentalists were the same entity. It's really very reductionist, maybe this isn't the right forum for you

terminalshort

He literally didn't

Retric

> the environmentalists are the ones who

Literally says that. The 2024 Honda Pilots are …

‘Some’ X are Y, is talking about a subgroup of X, ‘the’ X are Y is talking about all X.

Beyond often it’s people trying to create barriers to something who setup these kinds of reviews not environmentalists. In old cities you’ll see people using historic preservation for similar ends.

renewiltord

Oh wait, I can rewrite this for you. Here you go:

Yeah, ultimately they denied that you could group together all these projects under one environmental review as an exception to normal rules. But many of the most influential environmental organizations, and a majority of those shaping modern permitting policy, have supported or defended regulatory structures that make large-scale energy projects extremely difficult to approve while also actively using those regulatory structures to kill major projects. Many prominent environmental groups have, at various times, opposed nuclear, solar, wind, or geothermal projects in the US: sometimes over local impacts, sometimes procedural grounds, and sometimes due to broader philosophical objections. Taken together, the net effect of those positions may have been to slow or block clean energy deployment more than almost any other political force, and therefore they may have been the largest policy contributors to climate change in much of the United States.

There we go. I think you can probably retune every comment you read with an LLM so that there's lots of hedging in it like this and then you can satisfy your own need for sufficient phatic phrases. But this one is from a human, given to you for free. If you don't like my comments, ask dang to ban me.

foobarian

I learned a word today! Thank you!

phat·ic

/ˈfadik/

adjective

denoting or relating to language used for general purposes of social interaction, rather than to convey information or ask questions. Utterances such as hello, how are you? and nice morning, isn't it? are phatic.

Origin: GREEK: phatos (spoken)

FridayoLeary

One article brought quite a lot of complaints from conservationists over the project which i find ironic. As someone else here said if rules exist they should be applied equally to everyone. In this case the biden administration suspended them in order to help the project and now they are being reinstated.

bawolff

I don't see why its so ironic. The environment isn't a binary. Its a complex system where the same thing can have both good and bad effects on different parts. Conservationists aren't climate change scientists. They are both going to be focused on the separate parts of the environment they specialize in.

FridayoLeary

We can evaluate if these projects as a net positive or negative for the enviroment. The enviroment can be divided into local and wider. Which is why i'm suspicious of how good electric cars are for example. If this project will wreak havoc on the local enviroment that is certainly very important and the irony of the situation is that it is getting sidelined in favour of broader enviromental concerns. I don't know what respective weights to attach to them, but the cynic in me says that washington prefers a big project which has better optics, then more local concerns.

kdkwlapfjdlaj

[flagged]

jameslk

> my guess is that they want to collect bribes (sorry, 'presidential library donations')

Green account, making an off-topic comment about partisan conspiracies… and it’s voted to the top

golden-face

Green account myself, it's an older code, sir, but it checks out.

Larrikin

Is it a conspiracy if companies are paying it?

jameslk

Are these specific companies paying for said bribes? Or is it still guesses?

rootusrootus

It is a conspiracy as long as evidence is not forthcoming.

mrdoops

Solar is great but the bottleneck is on battery capacity to carry those noon hours into evening for peak usage. Last I checked we had plenty of lithium and are mostly held back on refinement.

tokioyoyo

You know, this gets brought up every time, and I scratch my head as China and some other countries are just mass implementing any possible energy source. There's no one solution to the problem that will keep being the best solution. You just build, maintain, then build more and more and more and more and more to generate more energy. We shouldn't be debating "what is the most efficient" and only build that, because with that attitude, we just end up building nothing.

nocoiner

I really cannot understand why an “all of the above” approach to energy production has basically no political salience. I guess because it has something for someone of any political stripe to dislike (fossil fuels, nuclear, renewables and storage - take your pick!) but in a few years when we’re all paying twice the electrical rates we’re paying today, we will probably wish we hadn’t been so doctrinaire.

JumpCrisscross

> cannot understand why an “all of the above” approach to energy production has basically no political salience

Anger is incredibly viral. In a country on social media, that means cutting opposition spreads faster than support. (Most elements of support, for this reason, scaffold themselves along opposition to something else. Even if that something is a manufactured totem.)

All of the above has a slight advantage, policywise. But it has, by sharing all its components’ weaknesses, a larger cross section than any one alone. Thus you’ll see all-the-above picked apart by the anti-renewable lobby at the same time as the anti-nuke and anti-gas greenies.

(Comprehensive energy policy articles on HN typically have a top-voted commentating the stupidity of a random component.)

tokioyoyo

Everyone wants to be "right", and prove others "wrong". It feels like building things have gotten very expensive, and margins are not that high, so it would only pay for itself in decades. Everyone is scared for committing to those numbers, and just keep running in circles until some magical thing is invented. Crazy stuff.

ianburrell

Yeah, it is dumb to require battery storage for new solar. We can use gas peaker plants like we always have. China is using coal peaker plants.

We will need to retire them in future where renewables are everywhere. Maybe wind is good enough to fill the hole at night. Maybe new battery chemistry is cheap. Maybe some other storage tech works out. Maybe they can be converted to hydrogen for long term storage.

tremon

For non-mobile energy storage, I have my hopes on sodium or even saltwater batteries. They are less energy-dense than lithium-based batteries, but they have a longer lifetime, require less maintenance and you avoid the risk of a lithium fire.

myvoiceismypass

Battery capacity is not what this article is about.

bee_rider

Yes, both. Sure, build batteries, but also over-provision to avoid dipping into batteries. As a society we’ll find ways to waste excess energy!

_factor

Discarded EV batteries with 70% life remaining seem like a viable path to energy storage for households.

nradov

It's tough to turn that into a scalable, sustainable business. There are so many different types of EV battery packs and you can't just pull one out of an old car and hang it on someone's garage wall. You would typically have to break the old pack down, test the individual cells, and use them to construct a new pack. This is such a labor intensive process that it might not really be cost effective.

vlan0

I hope we see this more at the municipal level. Just thinking about dense neighborhoods with sizable lithium storage solutions raises eyebrows. One house fire could spread so quickly.

null

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polski-g

New sodium battery tech just came out, allegedly 1/10 the price.

ddxv

"Compared to lithium-ion batteries, sodium-ion batteries have somewhat lower cost, better safety characteristics (for the aqueous versions), and similar power delivery characteristics, but also a lower energy density (especially the aqueous versions)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-ion_battery#cite_note-:...

Also, recent CATL PR releases about sodium ion only mention 'future cost savings' rather than anything about a 90% reduction in prices.

loeg

Battery tech research claims are always outlandish. As usual, the proof is what can be brought to market.

gessha

Yeah, let’s wait for that tech to mature just like we waited on building high speed rail because hyperloop was around the corner… \s

dmix

Hyperloop was more of an after-the-fact reaction to California's high speed rail project, which started 17yrs ago (2008). Five years before the Hyperloop white paper was published. Hyperloop came out 2013, not long after the 2012 announcement that the rail project's cost would double from $8B to $16B and it was already facing delays. Elon explicitly said he didn't like the project and it inspired him to look into alternatives.

thelastgallon

Yes! And more importantly solar/wind are such an eyesore, ruining America's landscape! Coal is big and beautiful. We must have Coal plants in every city and American coal jobs. Solar and Wind are unhealthy! Wonder why the administration didn't outright make it a federal crime to use solar panels. /s