Germany's identity crisis: The trains no longer run on time
45 comments
·August 5, 2025thinkindie
I moved to Germany 10 years ago and while regional and suburban train service has been great, the long distance service has been terrible, with high prices, almost no high speed service and no competition. I'm Italian and therefore I had very low expectations, but at least high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany (at least until recently, when lack of regular maintenance work ultimately made its dent into the service quality).
But for many software engineer this is not a big surprise: everyone knows that accumulating tech debt and neglecting maintence will eventually bite back sooner or later.
layer8
> high speed trains in Italy run better than Germany
Not to excuse the German performance, but part of the reason is that the Italian high-speed railway network is significantly simpler than the German one, also in terms of interconnections with neighbouring countries:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Italy_TAV.png#/media...
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:ICE_Network.png#/med...
thinkindie
Germany is much flatter than Italy - while the the line between Bologna and Florence, Florence and Rome, Rome and Naples, must go through a lot of mountains or steep hills. Also, Italy is a territory with a lot of seismic activity every year, and that's something you can't ignore when you send trains at 300 km/h.
FirmwareBurner
> regional and suburban train service has been great
In which city?
bilbo0s
I don't know what others think, but Munich seemed reliable to me.
YMMV
schroeding
The problem in Munich is that everything must go through a single two-track part underneath the city center, which is at absolute capacity. If anything breaks down there (and it does, often, very often), even a small delay in a single train, all trains get delayed or skip stops.
In my experience, you have to take at least one train early if you do not want to come late regularly. Even e.g. the main airport train line, used by tourists, often turns around before the actual airport due to delays.
If you live in the city itself, it's fine, you also have other options. If you live further away, it's barely acceptable to very bad, IMO.
It is reliable-ish, but more "Amtrak Capital Corridor"-reliable than "JR Yamanote Line"-reliable.
immibis
I live in Berlin and while there are sometimes disruptions, it's hard to complain when the interval between trains is 4-5 minutes. Just get on the next one. Actually, if the train is 2-3 minutes late, it makes sense to wait another 3-2 minutes after that because it's guaranteed the late train will be crowded, and the next one will be undercrowded, because most people don't follow this principle.
Sibling comment says all traffic in Munich is funneled through the same central section; that's also true for several Berlin lines, but I've never heard of it becoming a problem. Maybe one time. Berlin's network[1] is complex enough that you have plenty of alternate routes available if something like that happens.
Note to future urban planners: a ring railway is a great idea as it provides redundancy of any possible route through the city center. (Very large cities might even need two. The Soviets actually built a second ring to avoid West Berlin, but it doesn't run as a continuous service. You can see various regional services running around the very outside of the network map.)
I've also traveled fairly long distances by regional train (yay Deutschlandticket) and by ICE (absolutely worth it if you're not penny-pinching). It's always disrupted; trains are always late. But I always get to my destination, so I don't mind that much. If you're on a nice and relaxed schedule, like traveling the day before, you'll be fine. It seems an acceptable, despite not ideal, way to run a railway network.
I think that unlike plane travel, where you normally get there exactly on time but there's a small chance you might be seriously delayed, with German train travel you're quite often a few hours delayed (for a cross-country trip) but it's never worse than that. You never have to stay the night in a hotel, you never have to pay extra money to get rebooked, and you never have to sue them afterwards. IIRC, if you're estimated to arrive more than 20 minutes late, you're allowed to just hop on any train towards your destination - the DB app will tell you this - and you don't need a new ticket, though it's recommended to get a note from a customer service desk to prove it occurred.
Note that the German network runs a lot of trains on a lot of tracks - unlike, say, the French TGV network, which has dedicated tracks for TGVs. The German approach allows for more services with less reliability and the French approach provides the opposite. AFAIK, there are a lot more ICE routes than TGV routes because the routes can be pieced together from existing local track segments and incrementally upgraded.
Side note: I've been on a regional train that was delayed 10 minutes, then sat on a siding for another hour to let more important traffic such as ICEs run on schedule past it. There is a tradeoff between resource utilization, and slack which allows for quick return to equilibrium. The more timeslots are occupied, the longer it takes before a delayed train can find a normally empty timeslot to fit into. This also applies to computers.
And people have been complaining about train delays since long before I got here.
mc32
There are so many Germans on YouTube mocking both the lack of time precisiin as well as the pricing schedule where to get reasonably priced tickets is you have to book them three months in advance
namibj
No the trick is to get one of the first x% of tickets sold to exactly that train. Well, mostly; being early also has some influence but the amount of unsold seats is far more important.
WalterBright
When I toured Germany in the 1980s with a train pass, there were clocks all over the train stations. If the train was scheduled to start at 11:07, when the big hand clicked to 7, the train started to move.
It was wonderful.
BTW, the D community is all over the world. We schedule a zoom meeting each month. When we began the meetings, and the meeting started at, say, 8, the meeting organizer would say "we need to wait a bit for the rest to join us". I put my foot down and said when the meeting is scheduled for 8, it starts at exactly 8.
And everyone shows up on time! It's amazing how that works.
mzhaase
Fun fact, all train clocks in Germany synchronize ever minute. That's why the second hand freezes every minute: its actually set to be a bit too fast, and then gets held at the top until the radio signal comes to let it continue.
psunavy03
This was the biggest culture shock for me coming from military aviation to software. In the former, a brief starts exactly on time, down to the second. "5-4-3-2-1-hack. Time is 0800."
I think I'd get tarred and feathered if I did that at my company.
WalterBright
When I worked at Boeing, we'd have a meeting now and then in a meeting room. The engineers showed up on time. The lead engineers showed up 10m late. The supervisor showed up 30m late. Anyone higher up, even later.
This was never discussed, but the pattern was the same every meeting.
I seriously disliked that nonsense.
c-linkage
That is why I do not like the American traffic signaling system. When the light turns red cross traffic has a two to three second delay. My feeling is that if people knew the cross traffic would go immediately when the light turned red they would certainly stop. But right now they know there's a buffer so they just run the red light.
cooper_ganglia
Who'd have thought a nation would have an identity crisis after importing millions of people from every other non-European country on the planet? How could anyone have ever possibly foreseen this??
nicbou
These problems predate the immigration waves
firefax
No longer? They were bitching and moaning when I visited fifteen years ago in my hostel. They got horrified when I told them they're coddled to be annoyed about 15 minute delays and spoke on how things are in the states... anyways this is troubling I guess... but it's not new.
Edit: also, I found the English UI to be the best in the EU (yes, better than UK's) and traveled the continent on DB, so while I sympathize with wanting things better... as an American it was a pretty good system.
heraldgeezer
>they're coddled
>bitching and moaning
Why is this always the American answer when anything good about EU gets brought up that maybe turned worse?
Vacation, workdays, sickdays, parental leave, free schooling and healthcare? and public transport as here.
It is a question of money, investment and what society you want. You chose the Ford F-150.
For me in Sweden, we also have worse rail now, also due to the same issue. Maintenance is never "sexy" weather its fibre or rail. Parking, roads and cars nets points here too sadly.
libraryatnight
American here, very tired of the response you note. It's self defeating and depressing. Feels like any expectations for a good experience, for things to work, to be treated like a person, is mocked as childish naivete.
fabian2k
The punctuality of the trains has been more of a joke for quite a bit, I don't think it's a big part of German identity.
The part that is really terrible are the long-distance trains. Not that the regional trains are always punctual, their reliability varies a lot per route. But they're not as bad as the long-distance trains.
One big recent improvement is the Germany ticket, for 58 EUR per month you can take any regional train or bus.
firefax
I got the impression they have a different cultural definition of "late" -- they'd get as mad about a 15 minute delay as folks in the states would get about an hour plus delay.
patrickmcnamara
6 minutes is late for DB. But trains are often much later (or cancelled).
MrJohz
Maybe twenty years ago, but these days it's pretty common to have hour-long delays, or to have trains be cancelled at short notice, or rearranged such that you won't get a connection. When traveling East/West, I'd pretty much always recommend planning a buffer of at least an hour, more if your journey involves connections.
bamboozled
When have they ran on time sorry ?
The last time I caught a train in Germany I remember having to wait on a freezing platform for ~ 3 hours until they gave up on the train and got us a coach and drove us to Hamburg...that was ~ 9 years ago.
I don't remember having the same issue in Netherlands though.
On the other hand I've been in Japan for a long time, I honestly don't remember a single train being late in all that time.
ktallett
Is this an old article? They haven't consistently run on time for around a decade. The service is no better than supposedly worse trains in say the UK and is nowhere near say Korea's train system.
soneil
Ironically, DB owned many lines in the UK up until recently (via their ownership of Arriva)
cdrini
No it's from August 5th. It includes some nice graphs, apparently the punctuality really plummeted around 2020.
bot403
I wish the author would dive into that even a little bit. It looks like COVID killed the performance. Why? And what about post COVID?
bookofjoe
Maybe train personnel out sick?
DemocracyFTW2
The way neoliberalism dealt with the public sector including rail service and infrastructure and then come up with "COVID killed Deutsche Bahn" is like saying that poor old sucker who was pushed down the staircase succumbed to his running nose. The problems run much deeper and were already visible in the 70s and 80s, but because it's only the public sector and rail traffic, not about more highways and more cars and then even more cars it never got fixed. Because who needs rails and trains, right.
nudgeOrnurture
dude, Germany's identy crisis is that Germans still don't get the potential they have. They are still, after decades of American ( I love America but I think they had it waaaaaay too easy in the past decades ) easy mode, not realizing they are playing the game of others.
Two bad examples: there's a PhD level genius just a few villages away and he still didn't even try to get the funding to build a proper mechatronics Hogwarts in our area ( it's 2025 ... ) and a nuclear Physics PhD, who's now a banker ( crying laughing joker emoji, a fucking banker, like one of those modern Kazakhs ) just a little further away .... who's daddy is also a Physics PhD and has been in IT for 30 years or so ... Iean, sure, money, but is that all "agency" or just the result of priming/nudging towards the lower levels?
Good little Germans, just do as I do, keep your lips ( and minds ) sealed .... walk away
it's 4 to 8 hours of work per day anyway and you got the brains for it, ma dudes and dudettes, what the fuuuuuuuck
consumer451
That's a really dark choice for a headline. Dark, or maybe just infantile. Did the editor think they were being witty?
opan
Are you implying it's a WW2 reference? Did not occur to me before I saw your comment.
consumer451
It was the first thing that came to my mind, even though that referenced Mussolini. But I thingk about WWII probably too often. Maybe the editor wasn't thinking that at all.
krapp
It would be an odd reference to make since it's usually applied to Mussolini, falsely (it's propaganda, he did not actually make the trains run on time[0].) I suspect in this case it just generally refers to some archetype of efficient modern German infrastructure and engineering.
[0]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-15/stop-sayi...
renewiltord
> Guy who has only seen The Boss Baby, watching his second movie: Getting a lot of 'Boss Baby' vibes from this...
jeffbee
Germany, like America, is operated by and for the benefit of car companies. Their infrastructure difficulties share root causes with America's.
general1726
Or there is a sane explanation - People drive cars -> People push their politicians to improve road infrastructure -> less money for other infrastructure -> trains are underfunded -> trains and tracks are having maintenance issues a reliability starts to fall apart -> people drive cars even more.
jeffbee
While I agree that fundamentally the issue is that Germans spend more on cars than any other European population (but nowhere near as much as Americans), there is also the detail that a large share of VWAG is owned by a German state.
DemocracyFTW2
if you judge driving cars as 'sane', sure; I don't
https://archive.ph/9kInY