Nobody knows how to build with AI yet
164 comments
·July 19, 2025karel-3d
weitendorf
I've been working on AI dev tools for a bit over a year and I don't love using AI this way either. I mostly use it for boilerplate, ideas, or to ask questions about error messages. But I've had a very open mind about it ever since I saw it oneshotting what I saw as typical Google Cloud Functions tasks (glue together some APIs, light http stuff) a year ago.
I think in the last month we've entered an inflection point with terminal "agents" and new generations of LLMs trained on their previously spotty ability to actually do the thing. It's not "there" yet and results depend on so many factors like the size of your codebase, how well-represented that kinda stuff is in its training data, etc but you really can feed these things junior-sized tickets and send them off expecting a PR to hit your tray pretty quickly.
Do I want the parts of my codebase with the tricky, important secret sauce to be written that way? Of course not, but I wouldn't give them to most other engineers either. A 5-20 person army of ~interns-newgrads is something I can leverage for a lot of the other work I do. And of course I still have to review the generated code, because it's ultimately my responsibility, but I prefer that over having to think about http response codes for my CRUD APIs. It gives me more time to focus on L7 load balancing and cluster discovery and orchestration engines.
stillsut
> Just keep it away from me
I'm reminded of teaching bootcamp software engineering, when every day #1 we go through simple git workflows and it seems very intimidating to students and they don't understand the value. Which fair enough because git has a steep learning curve and you need to use it practically to start picking it up.
I think this might be analogous to the shift going on with ai-generated and agent-generated coding, where you're introducing an unfamiliar tool with a steep learning curve, and many people haven't seen the why? for its value.
Anyways, I'm 150 commits into a vibe coding project that still standing strong, if you're curious as to how this can work, you can see all the prompts and the solutions in this handy markdown I've created: https://github.com/sutt/agro/blob/master/docs/dev-summary-v1...
fragmede
To the article's point, I built my own version of your agro tool that I use to manage my own git worktrees. Even if I had known about your project, I still would have built my own, because if I build it (with LLM assistance, obvs) then I get to design it for myself.
Looking at other industries, music production is probably the one to look at. What was once the purview of record labels with recording studios that cost a million dollars to outfit, is now a used MacBook and, like, $1,000 of hardware/software. The music industry has changed, dramatically, as a result of the march of technology, and thus so will software. So writing software will go the way of the musician. What used to be a middle class job as a trumpet player in NYC before the advent of records, is now only a hobby except for the truely elite level practicioners.
quantiq
This has to be someone working solely on personal projects right? Because I don't know anyone who actually works like this and frequently the code that AI will spit out is actually quite bad.
lordnacho
But you also can't not swim with the tide. If you drove a horse-buggy 100 years ago, it was probably worth your while to keep your eye on whether motor-cars went anywhere.
I was super skeptical about a year ago. Copilot was making nice predictions, that was it. This agent stuff is truly impressive.
bloppe
An I the only one who has to constantly tell Claude and Gemini to stop making edits to my codebase because they keep messing things up and breaking the build like ten times in a row, duplicating logic everywhere, etc? I keep hearing about how impressive agents are. I wish they could automate me out of my job faster
vishvananda
I'm really baffled why the coding interfaces have not implemented a locking feature for some code. It seems like an obvious feature to be able to select a section of your code and tell the agent not to modify it. This could remove a whole class of problems where the agent tries to change tests to match the code or removes key functionality.
One could even imagine going a step further and having a confidence level associated with different parts of the code, that would help the LLM concentrate changes on the areas that you're less sure about.
Benjammer
Are you paying for the higher end models? Do you have proper system prompts and guidance in place for proper prompt engineering? Have you started to practice any auxiliary forms of context engineering?
This isn't a magic code genie, it's a very complicated and very powerful new tool that you need to practice using over time in order to get good results from.
esafak
Create and point them to an agent.md file http://agent.md/
exographicskip
Duplicate logic is definitely a thing. That and littering comments all over the place.
Worth it to me as I can fix all the above after the fact.
Just annoying haha
null
csomar
They need "context engineering" which what I'll describe best as "railing" them in. If you give them a bit of a loose space, they'll massacre your code base. You can use their freedom for exploration but not for implementation.
In essence, you have to do the "engineering" part of the app and they can write the code pretty fast for you. They can help you in the engineering part, but you still need to be able to weigh in whatever crap they recommend and adjust accordingly.
mbrumlow
Did you tell them to not duplicate code?
rafaelmn
More like people telling us there will be no more professional drivers on the road in 5-10 years 10 years ago. Agents are like lane assist, not even up to the current self driving levels.
miltonlost
So many people are hyping AI like it's Musk's FSD, with the same fraudulance in overestimating its capabilities.
verisimilidude
AI's superpower is doing mediocre work at high speed. That's okay. Great, even. There's lots of mediocre work to do. And mediocre still clears below average.
But! There's still room for expertise. And this is where I disagree about swimming with the tide. There will be those who are uninterested in using the AI. They will struggle. They will hone their craft. They will have muscle memory for the tasks everyone else forgot how to do. And they will be able to perform work that the AI users cannot.
The future needs both types.
jon-wood
My ongoing concern is that most of us probably got to being able to do good work via several years of doing mediocre work. We put in the hours and along the way learned what good looks like, and various patterns that allow us to see the path to solving a given problem.
What does the next generation do when we’ve automated away that work? How do they learn to recognise what good looks like, and when their LLM has got stuck on a dead end and is just spewing out nonsense?
mnky9800n
I think the agent stuff is impressive because we are giving the AI scaffold and tools and things to do. And that is why it is impressive because it has some directive. But it is obvious if you don't give it good directives it doesn't know what to do. So for me, I think a lot of jobs will be making agents do things, but a lot won't. i think its really strange that people are all so against all this stuff. it's cool new computer tools, does nobody actually like computers anymore?
prinny_
A lot of people join this profession because they like building stuff. They enjoy thinking about a problem and coming up with a solution and then implementing and testing it. Prompting is not the same thing and it doesn't scratch the same itch and at the end of the day it's important to enjoy your job, not only be efficient at it.
I have heard the take that "writing code is not what makes you an engineer, solving problems and providing value is what makes you an engineer" and while that's cool and all and super important for advancing in your career and delivering results, I very much also like writing code. So there's that.
majormajor
> does nobody actually like computers anymore
I think this is a really interesting question and an insight into part of the divide.
Places like HN get a lot of attention from two distinct crowds: people who like computers and related tech and people who like to build. And the latter is split into "people who like to build software to help others get stuff done" and "people who like to build software for themselves" too. Even in the professional-developer-world that's a lot of the split between those with "cool" side projects and those with either only-day-job software or "boring" day-job-related side projects.
I used to be in the first group, liking computer tech for its own sake. The longer I work in the profession of "using computer tools to build things for people" the less I like the computer industry, because of how much the marketing/press/hype/fandom elements go overboard. Building-for-money often exposes, very directly, the difference between "cool tools" and "useful and reliable tools" - all the bugs I have to work around, all the popular much-hyped projects that run into the wall in various places when thrown into production, all the times simple and boring beats cool when it comes to winning customers. So I understand when it makes others jaded about the hype too. Especially if you don't have the intrinsic "cool software is what I want to tinker with" drive.
So the split in reactions to articles like this falls on those lines, I think.
If you like cool computer stuff, it's a cool article, with someone doing something neat.
If you are a dev enthusiast who likes side projects and such (regardless of if it's your day job too or not), it's a cool article, with someone doing something neat.
If you are in the "I want to build stuff that helps other people get shit done" crowd then it's probably still cool - who doesn't like POCs and greenfield work? - but it also seems scary for your day to day work, if it promises a flood of "adequate", not-well-tested software that you're going to be expected to use and work with and integrate for less-technical people who don't understand what goes into reliable software quality. And that's not most people's favorite part of the job.)
(Then there's a third crowd which is the "people who like making money" crowd, which loves LLMs because they look like "future lower costs of labor." But that's generally not what the split reaction to this particular sort of article is about, but is part of another common split between the "yay this will let me make more profit" and "oh no this will make people stop paying me" crowds in the biz-oriented articles.)
oblio
People are afraid that instead of skilled craft guild members they will become assembly line workers like Charlie Chaplin in Modern Times. And in 10 years unemployed like people in the Rust Belt.
kellyjprice
I'm not trying to discount it the analogy, but I'd much rather live without cars (or a lot less).
fzeroracer
Sometimes it's a good thing to not swim with the tide. Enshittification comes from every single dipshit corporation racing to the bottom, and right now said tide is increasingly filling with sewage.
There's a huge disconnect I notice where experienced software engineers rage about how shitty things are nowadays while diving directly into using AI garbage, where they cannot explain what their code is doing if their lives depended on it.
beefnugs
This doesn't make aaaaany sense: IF this actually worked, then why would all the biggest companies in the world be firing people? They would be forcing them all to DO THE TIDE and multiple their 10 billion dollar dominance to 100 billion dollar or more dominance.
The truth is something like: for this to work, there is huge requirements in tooling/infrastructure/security/simulation/refinement/optimization/cost-saving that just could never be figured out by the big companies. So they are just like... well lets trick as many investors and plebs to try to use this as possible, maybe one of them will come up with some breakthrough we can steal
fragmede
> why would all the biggest companies in the world be firing people
Because of section 174, now hopefully repealed. Money makes the world go round, and the money people talk to the people with firing authority.
intended
I promise everyone one thing - there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch.
A lot of what is “working” in the article is closer to “jugaad”/prototyping.
Something the author acknowledges in their opening- it’s a way to prototype and get something off the ground.
Technically debt will matter for those products that get off the ground.
richardw
Scary part is: what if it’s inevitable? We don’t get to choose our environment, and toss one is forming around us.
A friend’s dad only knows assembly. He’s the ceo of his company and they do hardware, and he’s close to retirement now, but he finds this newfangled C and C++ stuff a little too abstract. He sadly needs to trust “these people” but really he prefers being on the metal.
null
AndrewKemendo
Genuinely this is what it sounds like to accept obsolescence and I just can’t understand it.
What are you attached to and identify with that you’re rejecting new ways to work?
Change is the only constant and tools now look like superhuman tools created for babies compared to the sota at bell or NASA in the 1960s when they were literally trying to create superhuman computing.
We have more access to powerful compute and it’s never been easier to build your own everything.
What’s the big complaint?
nirvanatikku
This article is spot on.
I had stumbled upon Kidlin’s Law—“If you can write down the problem clearly, you’re halfway to solving it”.
This is a powerful guiding principle in today’s AI-driven world. As natural language becomes our primary interface with technology, clearly articulating challenges not only enhances our communication but also maximizes the potential of AI.
The async approach to coding has been most fascinating, too.
I will add, I've been using Repl.it *a lot*, and it takes everything to another level. Getting to focus on problem solving, and less futzing with hosting (granted it is easy in the early journey of a product) - is an absolute game changer. Sparking joy.
I personally use the analogy of mario kart mushroom or star; that's how I feel using these tools. It's funny though, because when it goes off the rails, it really goes off the rails lol. It's also sometimes necessary to intercept decisions it will take.. babysitting can take a toll (because of the speed of execution). Having to deal with 1 stack was something.. now we're dealing with potential infinite stacks.
null
Flatcircle
My theory on AI is it's the next iteration of google search, a better more conversational, base layer over all the information that exists on the internet.
Of course some people will lose jobs just like what happened to several industries when search became ubiquitous. (newspapers, phone books, encyclopedias, travel agents)
But IMHO this isn't the existential crisis people think it is.
It's just a tool. Smart, clever people can do lots of cool stuff with tools.
But you still have to use it,
Search has just become Chat.
You used to have to search, now you chat and it does the searching, and more!
ivanjermakov
> Search has just become Chat
I think chat-like LLM interfacing is not the most efficient way. There has to be a smarter way.
majormajor
I think Photoshop is a good guide here.
Famously complicated interface with a million buttons and menus.
Now there's more buttons for the AI tools.
Because at the end of the day, using a "brush" tool to paint over the area containing the thing you want it to remove or change in an image is MUCH simpler than trying to tell it that through chat. Some sort of prompt like "please remove the fifth person from the left standing on the brick path under the bus stop" vs "just explicitly select something with the GUI." The former could have a lot of value for casual amateur use; it's not going to replace the precise, high-functionality tool for professional use.
In software - would you rather chat with an LLM to see the contents of a proposed code change, or use a visual diff tool? "Let the agent run and then treat it's stuff as a PR from a junior dev" has been said so many times recently - which is not suggesting just chatting with it to do the PR instead of using the GUI. I would imagine that this would get extended to something like the input not just being less of a free-form chat, but more of a submission of a Figma mockup + a link to a ticket with specs.
Fade_Dance
There is certainly much innovation to come in this area.
I'm thinking about Personal Knowledge Systems and their innovative ideas regarding visual representations of data (mind maps, website of interconnected notes, things like that). That could be useful for AI search. What elements are doing in a sense is building concept web, which would naturally fit quite well into visualization.
The ChatBot paradigm is quite centered around short easily digestible narratives, and will humans are certainly narrative generating and absorbing creatures to a large degree, things like having a visually mapped out counter argument can also be surprisingly useful. It's just not something that humans naturally do without effort outside of, say, a philosophy degree.
There is still the specter of the megacorp feed algo monster lurking though, in that there is a tendency to reduce the consumer facing tools to black-box algorithms that are optimized to boost engagement. Many of the more innovative approaches may involve giving users more control, like dynamic sliders for results, that sort of thing.
clickety_clack
There’s an efficient way to serve the results, and there’s an efficient way for a human to consume them, and I find LLMs to be much more efficient in terms of cognitive work done to explore and understand something than a google search. The next thing will have to beat that level of personal mental effort, and I can’t imagine what that next step would look like yet.
aDyslecticCrow
I find a well-written human article or guide to be far more efficient when it exists. But if AI rehash them... then the market for those may disappear, and in the process, the AI won't be very good either without the source to summarise.
Quitschquat
Google doesn’t have to change search. It already returns AI generated crap before anything useful.
arrowsmith
To be fair, Google also returns a lot of useless crap that wasn't generated by AI.
jenscow
wasn't generated by their AI, more like
patcon
I have systemic concerns with how Google is changing roles from "knowledge bridging" to "knowledge translating", but in terms of information: I find it very useful.
You find it gives you poor information?
aDyslecticCrow
Always check the sources. I've personally found it;
- Using a source to claim the opposite of what the source says.
- Point to irrelevant sources.
- Use a very untrustworthy source.
- Give our sources that do not have anything to do with what it says.
- Make up additional things like any other LLM without source or internet search capability, despite reading sources.
I've specifically found Gemeni (the one Google puts at the top of searches) is hallucination-prone, and I've had far better results with other agents with search capability.
So... presenting a false or made-up answer to a person searching the web on a topic they don't understand... I'd really like to see a massive lawsuit cooked up about this when someone inevitably burns their house down or loses their life.
accrual
I like the way DuckDuckGo does it - it offers a button to generate a response if you want to, but it doesn't shove it down your throat.
It's handy when I just need the quick syntax of a command I rarely need, etc.
mrandish
Append -ai to your query to omit AI results.
brabel
I was a bit wary of trusting the AI summaries Google has been including in search results… but after a few checks it seems like it’s not crap at all, it’s pretty good!
SoMomentary
I think their point is that all of the content out there is turning in to AI Slop so it won't matter if search changes because the results themselves have already been changed.
jayd16
Unlike peak google, this reduces signal to noise and obfuscates the source data its pulling against.
hmmokidk
Creation of source data has been disincentivized
jopsen
It's clearly useful for many things other than search.
aDyslecticCrow
As search gives the answer rather than the path to it, the job of finding things out properly and writing it down for others is lost. If we let that be lost, then we will all be lost.
If we cannot find a way to redirect income from AI back to the creators of the information they rehash (such as good and honest journalism), a critical load-bearing pillar of democratic society will collapse.
The news industry has been in grave danger for years, and we've seen the consequences it brings (distrust, division, misinformation, foreign manipulation). AI may drive the last stake in its back.
It's not about some jobs being replaced; that is not even remotely the issue. The path we are on currently is a dark one, and dismissing it as "just some jobs being lost" is a naive dismissal of the danger we're in.
JSteph22
I am looking forward to the "news industry" breathing its last breath. They're the ones primarily responsible for the distrust and division.
aDyslecticCrow
No, i fully disagree.
The economic viability to do proper journalism was already destroyed by the ad supported click and attention based internet. (and particular the way people consume news through algorithmic social media)
I believe most independent news sites have been economically forced into sensationalism and extremism to survive. Its not what they wilfully created.
Personally, i find that any news organisations that is still somewhat reputable have source of income beyond page visits and ads; Be it a senior demorgaphic that still subscribe to the paper, loyal reader base that pay for the paywall, or government sponsoring its existence as public service.
Now what if you cut out the last piece of income journalists rely on to stay afloat? We simply fire the humans and tell an AI to summarise the other articles instead, and phrase it how people want to hear it.
And thats a frightening world.
maqnius
I agree that people are using it for things they would've googled, but I doubt that it's a good replacement.
To me it mostly comes with a feeling of uncertainty. As if someone tells you something he got told on a party. I need to Google it, to find a trustful source for verification, else it's just a hint.
So I use it if I want a quick hint. Not if I really want to have information worth remembering. So it's certainly not a replacement for me. It actually makes things worse for me because of all that AI slop atm.
staplers
A lot of modern entry-level jobs were filled by people who knew how to use google and follow instructions.
I imagine the next generation will have a similar relationship with AI. What might seem "common sense" with the younger, more tech-saavy crowd, will be difficult for older generations whose default behavior isn't to open up chatgpt or gemini and find the solution quickly.
chamomeal
I don’t mean to be a dick, but stuff like this
> With enough AI assistants building enough single-purpose tools, every problem becomes shallow. Every weird edge case already has seventeen solutions. Every 2am frustration has been felt, solved, and uploaded.
> We're not drowning in software. We're wading in it. And the water's warm
Just sounds like GPT style writing. I’m not saying this blog is all written by GPT, but it sounds like it is. I wonder if those of us who are constantly exposed to AI writing are starting to adopt some of that signature fluffy, use-a-lot-of-words-without-saying-much kinda style.
Life imitates art. Does intelligence imitate artificial intelligence?? Or maybe there’s more AI written content out there than I’m willing to imagine.
(Those snippets are from another post in this blog)
lordnacho
I'm loving the new programming. I don't know where it goes either, but I like it for now.
I'm actually producing code right this moment, where I would normally just relax and do something else. Instead, I'm relaxing and coding.
It's great for a senior guy who has been in the business for a long time. Most of my edits nowadays are tedious. If I look at the code and decide I used the wrong pattern originally, I have to change a bunch of things to test my new idea. I can skim my code and see a bunch of things that would normally take me ages to fiddle. The fiddling is frustrating, because I feel like I know what the end result should be, but there's some minor BS in the way, which takes a few minutes each time. It used to take a whole stackoverflow search + think, recently it became a copilot hint, and now... Claude simply does it.
For instance, I wrote a mock stock exchange. It's the kind of thing you always want to have, but because the pressure is on to connect to the actual exchange, it is often a leftover task that nobody has done. Now, Claude has done it while I've been reading HN.
Now that I have that, I can implement a strategy against it. This is super tedious. I know how it works, but when I implement it, it takes me a lot of time that isn't really fulfilling. Stuff like making a typo, or forgetting to add the dependency. Not big brain stuff, but it takes time.
Now I know what you're all thinking. How does it not end up with spaghetti all over the place? Well. I actually do critique the changes. I actually do have discussions with Claude about what to do. The benefit here is he's a dev who knows where all the relevant code is. If I ask him whether there's a lock in a bad place, he finds it super fast. I guess you need experience, but I can smell when he's gone off track.
So for me, career-wise, it has come at the exact right time. A few years after I reached a level where the little things were getting tedious, a time when all the architectural elements had come together and been investigated manually.
What junior devs will do, I'm not so sure. They somehow have to jump to the top of the mountain, but the stairs are gone.
Loic
> What junior devs will do, I'm not so sure. They somehow have to jump to the top of the mountain, but the stairs are gone.
Exactly my thinking, nearly 50, more than 30 years of experience in early every kind of programming, like you do, I can easily architect/control/adjust the agent to help me produce great code with a very robust architecture. By I do that out of my experience, both in modelling (science) and programming, I wonder how the junior devs will be able to build experience if everything comes cooked by the agent. Time will tell us.
theferret
I feel like we've been here before, and there was a time when if you're going to be an engineer, you needed to know core equations, take a lot of derivatives, perform mathematical analysis on paper, get results in an understandable form, and come up with solutions. That process may be analogous to what we used to think of as beginning with core data structures and algorithms, design patterns, architecture and infrastructure patterns, and analyzing them all together to create something nice. Yet today, much of the lower-level mathematics that were previously required no longer are. And although people are trained in their availability and where they are used, they form the backbone of systems that automate the vast majority of the engineering process.
It might be as simple as creating awareness about how everything works underneath and creating graduates that understand how these things should work in a similar vein.
Loic
Exactly right now, I am helping a big oil and gas company have a process simulation software to correctly converge on a big simulation. Full access to the source code, need to improve the Newton method in use with the right line search, validate the derivatives, etc.
I do think that for most of the people, you are right, you do not need to know a lot, but my philosophy was to always understand how the tool you use work (one level deeper), but now the tool is creating a new tool. How do you understand the tool which has been created by your Agent/AI tool?
I find this problem interesting, this is new to me and I will happily look at how our society and the engineering community evolve with these new capacities.
tempodox
> I would normally just relax and do something else. Instead, I'm relaxing and coding.
So more work gets to penetrate a part of your life that it formerly wouldn't. What's the value of “productivity gains”, when they don't improve your quality of life?
lpa22
This is exactly what makes me excited as well. It really does replace the tedious parts of coding I’ve done thousands of times at this point.
ikerino
Hot take: Junior devs are going to be the ones who "know how to build with AI" better than current seniors.
They are entering the job market with sensibilities for a higher-level of abstraction. They will be the first generation of devs that went through high-school + college building with AI.
stefan_
Where did they learn sensibility for higher-level of abstraction? AI is the opposite, it will do what you prompt and never stop to tell you its a terrible idea, you will have to learn yourself all the way down into the details that the big picture it chose for you was faulty from the start. Convert some convoluted bash script to run on Windows because thats what the office people run? Get strapped in for the AI PowerShell ride of your life.
ikerino
How is that different than how any self-taught programmer learns? Dive into a too-big idea, try to make it work and learn from that experience.
Repeat that a few hundred times and you'll have some strong intuitions and sensibilities.
zwnow
So you are relaxing and the AI is coding? Neat! Way to replace yourself, hope you won't cry after your job once it is gone.
lubujackson
What you miss is the constant need to refine and understand the bigger picture. AI makes everyone a lead architect. A non-coder can't do this or will definitely get lost in the weeds eventually.
jon-wood
It doesn’t make everyone a lead architect, it just makes everyone think they’re a lead architect. What makes people a lead architect is a decade or two of experience in designing software and learning what works and doesn’t.
nlawalker
Right, but a lead architect can be a lead architect on multiple projects at the same time, and the world doesn't need as many lead architects as it has programmers.
This kind of working is relaxing and enjoyable until capitalism discovers that it is, and then you have to do it on five projects simultaneously.
rhdunn
I'm using AI assistants as an interactive search and coding assistant. I'm still driving the development and implementing the code.
Where I use it for is:
1. Remembering what something is called -- in my case the bootstrap pills class -- so I could locate it in the bootstrap docs. Google search didn't help as I couldn't recall the right name to enter into it. For the AI I described what I wanted to do and it gave the answer.
2. Working with a language/framework that I'm familiar with but don't know the specifics in what I'm trying to do. For example:
- In C#/.NET 8.0 how do I parse a JSON string?
- I have a C# application where I'm using `JsonSerializer.Deserialize` to convert a JSON string to a `record` class. The issue is that the names of the variables are capitalized -- e.g. `record Lorem(int Ipsum)` -- but the fields in the JSON are lowercase -- e.g. `{"ipsum": 123}`. How do I map the JSON fields to record properties?
- In C# how do I convert a `JsonNode` to a `JsonElement`?
3. Understanding specific exceptions and how to solve them.
In each case I'm describing things in general terms, not "here's the code, please fix it" or "write the entire code for me". I'm doing the work of applying the answers to the code I'm working on.
logicchains
He's still telling the AI what to code. Prompting, i.e. deciding the right thing to build then clearly specifying and communicating it in English, is a skill in itself. People who spend time developing that skill are going to be more employable than people who just devote all their time to coding, the thing at which LLMs are more cost effective.
shermantanktop
Im going to be overly picky about the subheading (which is an incidental aspect of TFA): “The future of software development might just be jazz. Everyone improvising. Nobody following the sheet music.”
That’s not jazz. Jazz being what it is, a lot of people in 2025 think it’s “everyone improvising,” but (outside of some free jazz) it’s quite structured and full of shared conventions.
Analogies work when you and your audience both understand the things being compared. In this case, the author doesn’t, and maybe some of the audience shares the same misperception, and so the analogy only works based on shared misunderstanding.
The analogy to jazz actually works better the more you know about it. But that’s accidental.
schneems
The input to output ratio is interesting. We are usually optimizing for volume of output, but now it’s inverted. I actually don’t want maximum output, I want the work split up into concrete, verifiable steps and that’s difficult to achieve consistently.
Ive taken to co-writing a plan with requirements with cursor and it works really well at first. But as it makes mistakes and we use those mistakes to refine the document eventually we are ready to “go” and suddenly it’s generating a large volume of code that directly contradicts something in the plan. Small annoyances like its inability to add an empty line after markdown headings have to be explicitly re added and re-reminded.
I almost wish I had more control over how it was iterating. Especially when it comes to quality and consistency.
When I/we can write a test and it can grind on that is when AI is at its best. It’s a closed problem. I need the tools to help me, help it, turn the open problem I’m trying to solve into a set of discrete closed problems.
d00mB0t
"I'd wander into my office, check what Claude had built, test it real quick. If it worked, great! Commit and push."
Man, I'm going to make so much money as a Cybersecurity Consultant!
asadotzler
I seem to have missed the part where he successfully prompted for security, internationalizability, localizability, accessibility, usability, etc., etc.
This is a core problem with amateurs pretending to be software producers. There are others, but this one is fundamental to acceptable commercial software and will absolutely derail vibe coded products from widespread adoption.
And if you think these aspects of quality software are easily reduced to prompts, you've probably never done serious work in those spaces.
fizx
The "time dialation" is real. I mostly manage these days, yet my fun projects progress faster than they ever have, because I can prompt in the 2 minutes between meetings, and come back to significant progress.
jvanderbot
Yes, it's not faster to develop with AI if you watch it work. It's faster to develop with AI if you parallelize. Typing was never the bottleneck, but is is a now-parallelizeable part of the pipeline.
nojs
> Yes, it's not faster to develop with AI if you watch it work.
It’s actually a lot faster. You read the diffs as soon as they start coming in, and immediately course correct or re-prompt when you see bad mistakes.
wrs
Indeed, I hit the stop button quite a bit when Claude goes off course. Then make a note of the right choice so maybe it won't do that again, revert and proceed. I have the feeling there is an optimal size of project proportional to the context size, where you can fit the critical design points into the context and/or there are enough examples in the code of how things should be done.
aprilthird2021
I don't have this experience. Watching and course correcting like this makes me realize I could have done a better job myself
criley2
It can still be faster to develop with AI watching it work. It can legitimately introduce an entire simple fullstack change across multiple projects in my monorepo including graphql queries/mutations, typeorm repository, a service layer, and a reactnative frontend using apollo client, etc. It can do that in about 10 minutes in my local. I can't. If I turned it into a speed run event and practiced, maybe I could get it done in 10 minutes but honestly, it's a machine and I'm John Henry. Since it's using my IDE, it's using my meticulously setup and maintained local and I'm able to quickly stop it and fix any mistake it makes. Level 2 driving assist.
I have enjoyed the github copilot agent style development where someone elses computer is running everything, and I can make a request and just come back half an hour later and check on it. But this level 5 driver gets the wrong destination basically every time, and then it's another 10, 20 or even 30 minutes for it to make a minor adjustment. It doesnt understand my `yarn` scripts, it runs my tests wrong, it can't do codegen, it doesn't format or lint files, etc. I asked copilot yesterday to lint and format a PR and it took 25 minutes of agentic work lol.
wrs
For me, one of the new superpowers is the ability to interactively do multiple drafts following different design principles and see which works better.
I just started an embedded project where two different people had implemented subsystems independently, and I asked Claude to merge the code into a single project and convert the existing synchronous code into asynchronous state machines called from a single main loop. It wrote three drafts with me giving it different stylistic principles to follow. I don't know if I would have had the patience to do that myself!
wiremine
I've been experimenting with model-based development lately, and this resonated strongly with me.
The section "What Even Is Programming Anymore?" hit on a lot of the thoughts and feels I've been going through. I'm using all my 25+ years of experience and CS training, but it's _not_ programming per se.
I feel like we're entering an era where we're piloting a set of tools, not hand crafting code. I think a lot of people (who love crafting) will be leaving the industry in the next 5 years, for better or worse. We'll still need to craft things by hand, but we're opening some doors to new methodologies.
And, right now, those methodologies are being discovered, and most of us are pretty bad at them. But that doesn't mean they're not going to be part of the industry.
jerpint
Funny enough, I’m building a tool that does basically what the author describes, but with a bit more software engineering driving it (context-llemur)
https://github.com/jerpint/context-llemur
The idea is to track all of the context of a project using git. It’s a CLI and MCP tool, the human guides it but the LLM contributes back to it as the project evolves
I used it to bootstrap the library itself, and have been using it more and more for context management of all sorts of things I care about
Reading articles like this feels like being in a different reality.
I don't work like this, I don't want to work like this and maybe most importantly I don't want to work with somebody who works like this.
Also I am scared that any library that I am using through the myriad of dependencies is written like this.
On the other hand... if I look at this as some alternate universe where I don't need to directly or indirectly touch any of this... I am happy that it works for these people? I guess? Just keep it away from me