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The Collapse of the FDA

The Collapse of the FDA

71 comments

·July 15, 2025

pedro_caetano

Worth reminding everyone that, on top of pharma and food, the FDA also regulates medical devices.

Insufficient regulation both on approval _and_ inspection of medical devices (thinking surgical applications and implantables for example) is as impactful on patient safety as drugs.

King-Aaron

NeuralLink is suddenly going to get a miraculous green light for broad human trials hey

kevin_thibedeau

I wish someone would convince RFK that prescription drug ads are bad for his brand of quack medicine. We could at least get rid of that societal cancer while the rest is torn down.

rwmj

It was a very strange experience once when I was in the US, at a hotel reception, suddenly hearing an advert for a sildenafil drug on TV behind the receptionist.

alejohausner

I’ve heard RFK say that it’s hard to ban TV ads for drugs. They are “speech” according to the 1st amendment, or something like that.

Too bad. News broadcasts are full of those ads, and hence TV journalists are loath to investigate the people that pay their salaries.

vel0city

There's loads of precedent pointing to commercial speech such as marketing as having some specific carve outs on the right to free speech. After all we have limits on tobacco marketing and food labeling requirements.

HenryBemis

The politicians are getting funded/paid (lobbying/donations) by the very same people/companies that pay the ad revenue to those media. Why on earth would politicians legislate against their actual bosses? (As a real life reminder - a dog that bites the hand that feed him is put down). Courts btw don't make up shit.. they 'judge' (verb) with the criteria of 'what does the law define'. So if politicians legislate wisely, courts will enforce any 'parliamentary' and/or executive order to ban the advertisements of medicine.

But they won't. Not until push-comes-to-shove, and the true bosses will reposition to 'the next thing' (smoking, sugary-foods, medicine) and then they will allow the politicians to finally block meds ads. In which case the 'next wave' will begin. Story as old as time...

TylerE

They were illegal up until quasi recently… mid 90s IIRC. I believe it was right around the time of Viagra - probably not a coincidence.

dmm

Reading "Bottle of Lies" by Katherine Eban, I'd argue that the collapse of the FDA was well underway before the current administration. The FDA was completely unable to regulate overseas drug manufacturers, resulting in many, many problems. Sincere attempts to inspect overseas drug makers with random inspections universally results in shutdowns, which cause politically unpopular drug shortages, making enforcement politically difficult.

cosmicgadget

That seems more like an "underfunded and underjurisdictioned" problem for a portion of what they do, rather than collapse of the agency.

Skates1616

I’m very familiar with this space, specifically parenteral manufacturing.

The real challenge lies in the expectations the FDA has set for manufacturing. Over time, the regulatory space has been heavily influenced by academic-driven theoretical scenarios for microbiological contamination. While well-intentioned, these theoretical risks often drive overly stringent requirements that don’t always reflect real-world manufacturing risks.

As a result, it’s becoming prohibitively expensive to manufacture drugs for the U.S., especially sterile injectables.

And truly it gets worse every year…

teepo

It feels to me like the tyranny of small differences. The fact that the various watchdogs amplified such specific issues greatly overshadowed their support of the mission. From what I've read, the FDA is a backwater from a funding perspective, and yet a punching bag from a regulatory point-of-view.

  *He and his colleagues had also been engaged in a decades-long debate with a sprawling community of watchdogs — mostly doctors, lawyers and scientists from outside the agency — who were often broadly supportive of the agency’s mission but who fought with officials like Califf, sometimes bitterly, over the specifics: How should the F.D.A. be financed? What kind of evidence should new drugs and medical devices require? How should regulators weigh the concerns of industry against the needs of doctors, patients and consumers?*

sorcerer-mar

Sooo that sounds like there's a whole lot of ways for it to get way, way, way worse.

The existence of problems does not imply there cannot be more plentiful, more diverse, and more severe problems in the near future.

kelseyfrog

If Chesterton's fence doesn't have a working latch, then it's appropriate to remove it entirely.

satvikpendem

Or fix the latch? Or was this a sarcastic comment?

zer00eyz

Chiron: 2004, the UK government shut down their flu vax plant (it was in the UK). It later came out that the FDA knew what was up and basically let it slide. It was one of the early ani-vax movements torches... Crunchy moms pissed about shots for kids and parents on Oxycodone were not happy with Pharma (or corporations in general: Enron etc..)

> politically unpopular drug shortages ...

Ask your ADHD friends about how they get their meds.

One side wants to keep it, the other side wants to get rid of it. No one wants to fix the problem.

aspenmayer

> No one wants to fix the problem.

That’s not what wedge issues are for. They’re not meant to be solved, because then they’re used up, and there’s airtime to fill in the meantime.

clumsysmurf

“FDA’s war on public health is about to end,” Kennedy wrote. “This includes its aggressive suppression of psychedelics, peptides, stem cells, raw milk, hyperbaric therapies, chelating compounds, ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamins, clean foods, sunshine, exercise, nutraceuticals and anything else that advances human health and can’t be patented by Pharma."

Anyone know what chelating compounds he is talking about?

He mentions clean foods, but the Trump EPA is protecting corporations from regulations more than its protecting citizens from pollution.

hinterlands

It's about EDTA. It can be legitimately used to treat heavy metal poisoning, plus some other things. Some people (who are probably misguided) want to self-medicate. The FDA won't let you. Hence, drama.

Metacelsus

yeah, because unless you legitimately have heavy metal poisoning, the side effects DEFINITELY aren't worth it

hinterlands

Probably, but the process doesn't work that way. The default is that you can't sell medication to people, period. Some pharmaceutical company applied to have a specific form of EDTA approved as a prescription drug, and that was that.

Separately from this, substances that meet the criteria of being "natural" can be sold as supplements as long as you don't claim they cure anything. EDTA is naturally-occurring and you can buy it as a supplement in the US, although the FDA has some beef with this, which I think is what the original remark might be alluding to.

EDTA is also a common food additive and a laboratory reagent, so people who want to use it can buy it easily, which makes the whole debate basically performance art.

Aloisius

Iron, copper, zinc, cobalt, manganese and selenium are "heavy metals."

grues-dinner

"Heavy metal" in general is a bad term, but especially when used as a proxy for toxin. There is no universal definition of heavy metal and there is no inherent connection to toxicity in any specific organism.

Then again, pretty much every metal is toxic at some relatively low body-mass concentration, even iron (which actually can and does kill people, especially when children eat adult iron supplements).

Even lovely unreactive gold does have compounds that are toxic.

stevenAthompson

"We do our peers, countrymen, students, and children a grave disservice by admonishing them to think for themselves without also giving them the critical thinking tools to do so, for in so doing we foster a culture where "independent thought" is equated with "contrarian thought". This gives rise to an anti-intellectual, anti-science paradigm that supports an idea not because it meets a basic standard of evidence, but rather simply because it opposes established thought. This is worse than the intellectual calcification that stagnant "herd thinking" would give rise to, because it doesn't simply halt progress — it puts it in full retreat."

frosted-flakes

Excellent statement, but who is the "great man" who once said this?

GregDavidson

Important quote! Citation?

j16sdiz

stevenAthompson from HN.

weq

[flagged]

mcphage

[flagged]

chung8123

Unfortunately I feel like we are just seeing the snap of these government agencies. They have been bending for a while. It will feel like 6 months but we have been on the path for a while and not one administration has decided to bite the bullet and turn course.

reactordev

I was just saying this today. I’m originally from the DC bubble. It’s been bad for a LONG time. Entire companies designed to fight and win government contracts so that they can milk the government until retirement. SAIC comes to mind.

These agencies haven’t been able to do their actual jobs in ages. Trump is doing what he said he was going to do (unpopular as that is) and we’ll have to figure out how to build back better (or whatever that term was).

I don’t agree with anything he’s doing but I do see opportunities in it. If we can survive without these departments until then.

js8

While seeing opportunity in a crisis is a good coping mechanism, that doesn't mean it's a good idea to destroy first and rebuild from scratch. (It is however one of the core unjustified beliefs of free market fundamentalists.)

It actually seems to be true more generally, good coping mechanisms are not particularly efficient in the absence of crisis. Another example: People who lived through a dictatorship, which destroyed social trust and capital, learned to cope by distrusting state authorities. That's a coping mechanism that doesn't work well in the absence of dictate, a system that is open to democratic self-governance. You need people who are willing to apply more bold strategies to effectively run a democratic state.

sneilan1

Sorry, this SAIC? https://www.saic.com/ Just curious which SAIC you are referring to.

umeshunni

That's how most oppressive regimes end. Sometimes faster.

sorcerer-mar

What's oppressive about FDA? Be specific.

andrewflnr

They obviously weren't referring "specifically" to the FDA at that point.

stego-tech

Don’t give the buffoon too much credit, as a lot of these weaknesses were engineered starting around Reagan (with Carter and Nixon also shouldering some, but far less overall, blame). Neoliberalism and its “invisible hand of the free market” alliance with Laissez-Faire Capitalism all but ensured the demise of institutions and social safety nets in the name of maximum profit for the moneyed classes. We built a Golden Age atop the New Deal, and Capital threw it all away to return to the 20s, violent strikebreaking and all.

King-Aaron

I see this argument of "oh it's been happening for a long time" getting thrown around a lot, and it feels like a really non-good-faith point of view that seems to ignore the administration directly targeting these institutions for destruction.

Yes, poor management is a big problem that could be seen as an intentional structural issue, but this is a totally different ball game that's being played right now.

null

[deleted]

nine_zeros

It is easy to complain and destroy. It is hard to build.

For a narcissistic hateful administration that wants easy votes, the destructive path is rational.

randcraw

Before the wreckage this administration has created consumes us, that is. Like when our next round of influenza is especially bad but we've destroyed so much public health infrastructure that the US is the last to respond to the crisis, and the state authorities have to turn elsewhere for help -- to WHO or even to China -- to bail us out.

monero-xmr

It’s easy to hand out money when you are not the one paying, and have no consequences for success or failure. Feeling justified and righteous is the icing on the cake

mcphage

> you are not the one paying

We are, though.

> have no consequences for success or failure

Oh, the consequences for the failures of this administration will be felt by everyone, for decades.

sorcerer-mar

These types of oblique, semantically empty comments are so tiring. Bonhoeffer's theory of stupidity rings true: "one virtually feels that one is dealing not at all with a person, but with slogans, catchwords and the like, that have taken possession of him."

What the actual fuck are you talking about "handing out money" as it pertains to this topic?

baggy_trough

[flagged]

sorcerer-mar

Can you speak directly to what you're referencing, please?

baggy_trough

I am referencing the grotesque overregulation, and hence ridiculous costs and greatly reduced supply, of medical innovations such as new drugs.