Unhooking from Amazon Ebooks
70 comments
·June 29, 2025pnw
seam_carver
I believe this is a more detailed explanation:
There are two main tag values for Kindle books: EBOK and PDOC.
EBOK is intended for store content. (ebooks) PDOC is intended for user content. (personal documents)
In the past, only EBOK got cover thumbnails. So Calibre tagged books as ebok to get cover thumbnails.
This changed in a relatively recent firmware update for 7th gen and later Kindles, so now PDOC tagged books get cover thumbnails too. (Sept 2022)
I assume that Amazon just looks at the EBOK tag, assumes its an expired loan or something, and deletes it. Since that thread says only EBOKs get deleted. Calibre still tags as EBOK by default. A possible solution is to tag as PDOC instead. That thread mentions the problem started in 7/2021
m463
> I assume that Amazon...
I think you should reconsider "the benefit of the doubt".
I remember thinking similar things in the 90's with respect to microsoft.
I was talking to an ex-microsoft coworker about how windows would break compatibility with some 3rd party software. I said "engineers are under pressure to get some feature out, and they don't know how it affects every bit of software out there" or something", giving the benefit of the doubt to microsoft.
But he told me not to be naive, "microsoft would have meetings... How can we control this, how can we own this"
likpok
That’s super annoying, but it is still straightforward to sideload books in a way that works with Amazon sync, via either the email address or uploading through Amazon.
thaumasiotes
In the Kindle app for Android, Amazon is constantly deleting stuff that you downloaded from it. Why do you think "if they decide you didn't purchase it from Amazon" is relevant?
seam_carver
That sounds like a separate issue than what's he's describing.
Metalnem
I've been a Kindle user for over 15 years, but I finally stopped buying Kindle books after Amazon removed the "Download & Transfer via USB" option, effectively eliminating the ability to remove DRM.
vunderba
It's a shame. I kept my original Kindle (1st gen) around for a long time just so that I could go to "Manage my Content" and then Download the Book via USB for that older device to get an AZW3 file rather than the really locked down KFX format because DeDRM'ing it was easier.
neilv
If you have mixed feelings about Calibre (e.g., powerful, but the GUI looks unpleasant to you), you can use Calibre to help you convert books to EPUB format, then put them in something like a `~/doc/` directory on your laptop, with descriptive filenames.
Then you can read on your laptop, such as with `foliate`, and also sync to an ereader that lets you mount it as USB storage, with a script for which the key part is:
cd ~/doc && rsync -crltv . "${DeviceMountPoint}/."beret4breakfast
Or use calibre web. Which has a less functional but nicer looking interface (with user logins)
vorgol
Calibre has improved a lot recently. If you haven't used it for a few years, it's worth taking a fresh look.
freefaler
Well...there is always this path:
linotype
Or just buy a Kobo and be done with Amazon without any kind of hacking.
goosedragons
Yep. You can also sync to your own self-hosted book platform like Calibre-Web or Komga instead of or alongside the Kobo store. That way you can easily sync books from multiple stores.
dml2135
I love my Kobo Forma except for the fact that the battery life is complete trash. I’m pretty sure Kobo did not replace the battery on the refurbished device I purchased :(
reaperducer
Or just buy a Kobo and be done with Amazon without any kind of hacking.
Whenever someone on HN complains about Kindles, someone else recommends Kobo. But I never see anyone recommending the Nook.
I haven't used a Nook in close to a decade, but when I did, it was very hackable. I even used a $5 one from Goodwill as an e-ink photo frame. Are the modern Nooks as bad as Kindles now?
tcoff91
I really like Boox devices. It’s a full on android tablet with e ink.
vorpalhex
Boox is great once you bend it to your will but there is a lot of obscure option mangling to do it. It's not malicious - the boox people are trying to hide the footguns - but there is a lot of "Why doesn't X work?" until you find some buried setting.
msgodel
In my mind if something has any kind of DRM it simply doesn't exist/isn't available.
washmyelbows
so I guess you just don't read ebooks?
sien
There are at least 70K public domain ebooks.
There are sources that say there are 1 M public domain ebooks.
https://libguides.library.umkc.edu/OER/PublicDomainBooks
Also there are thousands and thousands of DRM free ebooks to purchase. Possibly millions.
https://www.tomsguide.com/tablets/e-readers/no-kindle-no-pro...
rahimnathwani
If you have epub books you want to read on a Kindle, jailbreaking and installing KOReader seems like overkill.
Why not just convert them to mobi and read them with the native reader?
boneitis
It's a one-time setup and no longer requires conversion.
Granted, it's less of having eliminated a step and more like having shifted the workflow, now having to load into KOReader as the new "default" state if you ever have to reboot the device.
I can put on a custom wallpaper. That you cannot do this without jailbreaking is largely also an ideological/philosophical issue, IMO. And, it's a fun icebreaker if another Kindle user in public walks by and sees a whacky wallpaper. Then, I can share my enthusiasm with hacking or tinkering with computers in general and sometimes that will carry into another line of conversation if everyone's in a conversing mood (of course, without pontificating or breaking out into a lecture about the evils of bigcorp, DRM, etc... I know some people are really bad about that).
Not everyone wants to dump time into tinkering with their Kindle like that, I get it. And honestly, mine collects dust these days, as I find it more difficult to ramp up reading momentum with it, whereas I can more easily (and inadvertently) binge-read if I grab the smartphone thinking I'm just going to squeeze in a few paragraphs, even if the experience is worse.
boneitis
I may have outed myself with "no longer requires conversion". Of course, epubs can have DRM.
WillAdams
Current Kindles will accept .epub files sent via the "Send to Kindle" feature, converting them to be read.
vunderba
I have a pretty old Amazo Kindle Paperwhite (10+ years old) and if you use the send to Kindle email address, you can only send ePub to it, they discontinued support for mobi at some point.
rahimnathwani
OP doesn't want to use Amazon services, so sending files via Amazon's email service isn't relevant.
goosedragons
Which leaves them up to the mercy of Amazon's conversion system. Did they fix it choking on the text encoding yet or is there a decent chance of it messing with apostrophes still?
rahimnathwani
Which leaves them up to the mercy of Amazon's conversion system.
You can convert the files to mobi using Calibre.
rahimnathwani
OP doesn't want to use Amazon services, so 'send to kindle' isn't relevant.
boznz
Until I got my Kobo this was my preferred method. Shame the Kobo does not have such a feature.
tcoff91
If you want the Whispersync experience without Amazon, use Storyteller:
https://storyteller-platform.gitlab.com.io/storyteller/
It has a server and mobile apps for reading.
It produces EPUB3 files with embedded audio aligned with the text. Use Libation and Calibre to strip your DRM or use Libro.fm to buy audiobooks without DRM.
oidar
I think this is the link you want: https://gitlab.com/storyteller-platform/storyteller
tcoff91
My link was wrong: https://storyteller-platform.gitlab.io/storyteller/
This is the docs site
protocolture
I am yet to get Whispersync going using 100% amazon products.
tcoff91
Yeah honestly storyteller works better than Whispersync. I sought this app out because Amazon won’t do whispersync for audiobooks longer than like 44 hrs or something like that. I could not get whispersync for Stormlight archive. Storyteller on the other hand delivered no problem.
xvilka
I wish there was also open and decentralized alternative to Goodreads.
WillAdams
Is Librarything still a thing?
It seemed promising when it launched, but I switched to Goodreads (before the Amazon purchase) and haven't been able to find the time to look for an alternative since.
RunningDroid
There's also OpenLibrary by the Internet Archive:
mikhailt
For what purpose exactly?
There is one based on ActivityPub called BookWyrm.
ksenzee
Folks seem to be using StoryGraph these days.
davidw
I have just been checking books out from the library.
thayne
Unfortunately, that doesn't work if your library doesn't have the book you want. And you may have to wait a long time.
If only there was a national (or global) digital library of ebooks.
colonial
> If only there was a ... global digital library of ebooks.
There are several, if the various shadow libraries (Library Genesis, Z-Library, Anna's Archive...) count.
yjftsjthsd-h
Do you not have interloan?
thaumasiotes
> Unfortunately, that doesn't work if your library doesn't have the book you want.
Really? What library are you using? Virtually all of them will arrange to have the book you want sent from a partner library.
tresni
For other ways to sync status/mark as reading, you can checkout [hardcover.app](https://hardcover.app). My wife found it as she is also very interested in divesting from Amazon. I found a [Koreader plugin](https://github.com/Billiam/hardcoverapp.koplugin) as well
mikhailt
There's an interesting cross-platform ebook reading platform being developed called Readest that might work to sync books and reading position.
They might be able to also integrate with Hardcover API for syncing your books list as well as using WebDAV protocol for syncing locally book files.
I discovered recently that if you sideload a book onto the Kindle via Calibre, Amazon can delete them silently at some later stage if they decide you didn't purchase it from Amazon. This includes public domain works.
It's allegedly a result of how Calibre manages tags in order to display covers but still feels deeply wrong.
Long thread here: https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=340936