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US Defense Department will stop providing satellite weather data

Mobius01

Is this an attempt at controlling the narrative around climate change, in line with the impacts at NOAA and other climate-related government agencies?

mason_mpls

Don’t look up!

burnt-resistor

The timing is just, it's atrocious. Okay, at this very moment, I say we sit tight and assess.

chamomeal

^ I’m pretty sure this is a quote from the movie Don’t Look Up, if that’s why y’all are downvoting this comment

TheRealPomax

That's what got us here in the first place, maybe stop doing that.

FireBeyond

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gwerbin

Yes. Quoting Projct 225:

> Break Up NOAA ... NOAA consists of six main offices ... Together, these form a colossal operation that has become one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry and, as such, is harmful to future U.S. prosperity. This industry’s mission emphasis on prediction and management seems designed around the fatal conceit of planning for the unplannable. That is not to say NOAA is useless, but its current organization corrupts its useful functions. It should be broken up and downsized. NOAA today boasts that it is a provider of environmental information services, a provider of environmental stewardship services, and a leader in applied scientific research. Each of these functions could be provided commercially, likely at lower cost and higher quality.

https://envirodatagov.org/project-2025-national-oceanic-and-...

Tldr: shut down NOAA to suppress climate change evidence, research, and preparedness; outsource to private industry the remaining parts that are considered directly useful for commerce.

Is it any wonder that the CEO of Accuweather Barry Myers was a Trump donor who became a NOAA head administrator appointee in Trump's first term? The appointment fortunately failed. Now they're trying again.

matthewdgreen

If we survive this, these people will go down in history as monsters.

buttercraft

What if they're the ones who survive and rewrite history

chamomeal

Oh geez that… that is upsetting

ars

No, this was cancelled by congress in 2015 and switched to the JPSS program which is running and active.

genter

No, it's an attempt to strangle NOAA's ability to forecast weather, so that anyone that needs to know the forecast for their livelihood (transportation, fisherman, anyone that is outside) are forced to pay a private corporation for that.

By what I'm sure is a random coincidence, the CEO of Accuweather donated to Trump's campaign.

alwa

Accuweather, who also depend on this same USG sensor data for their modeling…

I don’t think anybody wins from this.

See e.g. https://www.accuweather.com/en/press/accuweather-does-not-su...

Frost1x

Are there other countries with similar weather satellites? I imagine China or the EU likely have some of their own. I know the US has been pushing this for free so plenty of nations likely piggy back off the free data. But I imagine larger ones might want their own redundant services to some degree to avoid vulnerability.

If so, they might be benefiting, but that’s about it.

mullingitover

Most of the world looks at the collapse of the Soviet Union, particularly the looting of state institutions by the oligarchs in Russia, as a cautionary tale.

The current US regime looks at it as a roadmap.

vel0city

It not being publicly published or furnished to NOAA doesn't mean AccuWeather or other private entities won't get this data.

mptest

>I don't think anybody wins from this...

Take one quick look at any wealth inequality graph over time and "who's winning" will be pretty clear. Someone always wins. This is simply a step at privatizing everything. Straight out of project 2025.

Kagi 2025 noaa. I shouldn't even have to link it. The fact that their entire game was publicly laid out years ago... and still, people act ignorant or are legitimately not paying any attention to politics... We deserve all that this administration will cost us as a collective.

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potsandpans

One decision can have multiple motives.

idiotsecant

It's probably not even that sophisticated. It's almost certainly a variant of 'Why are we giving this away for free? We should be making money from this!!!' Not understanding the second-order money losing impacts of it going away is pretty much expected.

9283409232

I recommend Ambient Weather instead of Accuweather.

[0] https://ambientweather.net/

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detourdog

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accurrent

As a non-American who's life has been previously saved by knowing that a typhoon would strike my home this has me wondering how we will be affected. A lot of smaller countries don't have the infrastructure/man power to maintain a space program. To what extent is the rest of the world reliant on this data and what does this mean for us? Will we still have predictions? How does international collaboration on meteorology generally work? Do Europeans/Chinese/Indians/Russians also share data about weather?

jimnotgym

The rest of the world needs to club closer together, and quickly. The US is no longer a reliable ally.

jzb

It’s no longer a reliable place to live, either.

kQq9oHeAz6wLLS

I've seen this argument a lot, but I don't see people clamoring to leave. I don't think anyone is taking makeshift boats to Cuba from the US, for example.

If you live in the US, are you actively looking to leave?

GiorgioG

By all means please do and pay for it yourselves.

bix6

Heaven forbid the richest nation on earth that steals resources from everyone else contribute to global improvement.

GiorgioG

Heaven forbid the rest of the world pays their own share of the bill. We’re not a charity. We treat our own people like shit, don’t expect to be treated better.

WarOnPrivacy

Here is what will be denied to NOAA, now and going forward

    Defense Department data also allow hurricane forecasters to see
    hurricanes as they form, and monitor them in real-time.

    For example, hurricane experts can see where the center of a 
    newly formed storm is, which allows them to figure out as 
    early as possible what direction it is likely to go, and whether
    the storm might hit land. That's important for people in harm's way,
    who need as much time as possible to decide whether to evacuate,
    and to prepare their homes for wind and water.
The public paid for this data. Deliberately siloing the data to insure it can't save American lives wouldn't just be theft, it would be an act indistinguishable from evil.

whycombagator

> NOAA, which oversees the National Hurricane Center, says the loss of the Defense Department data will not lead to less-accurate hurricane forecasts this year. In a statement, NOAA communications director Kim Doster said, "NOAA's data sources are fully capable of providing a complete suite of cutting-edge data and models that ensure the gold-standard weather forecasting the American people deserve."

tw04

Kim Doster is a Trump appointee who worked on Musk’s super pac. Her previous position was as a climate change denial specialist. Pardon my skepticism that we can believe anything she has to say. The Trump administration is a big fan of hiring Iraqi information minister wannabes as their spokespeople.

jackvalentine

> Iraqi information minister wannabes

I’ve been thinking about that guy once a week since this administration started.

lurkshark

I wouldn’t really expect a Trump administration spokesperson to put out a statement critical of the Trump administration’s decision.

whoopdedo

>The public paid for this data.

Someone should file weekly FOIA requests.

bix6

Didn’t they axe everyone who handles FOIA?

Frost1x

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aprilthird2021

Wow, they'll literally kill American citizens and American citizens will still overwhelmingly vote for them...

jfengel

The margin wasn't overwhelming. But if you include the number of people who could have done something about it but failed to, yeah, an overwhelming number allowed it to happen. And, as far as I can tell, will continue to.

mistrial9

> it would be ...

lots of ways to fill in that part. iterating the words seems worth the effort. Thinking out loud, there are readers with frame of reference, and movements or politics-in-practice that have frames of reference, in the messaging .. So making a 2x2 square and filling it in.. you can write for the readers and refine, you can align with movements or their spokespersons and refine, all combined with you yourself representing what you are about.

So to complete the exercise.. how many readers of YNews would respond to "that is evil" wording.. how many movements or politics-in-practice would say "that is evil" as part of their outfacing communications.. and how strongly to you, the writer, want to associate the concepts of "that is evil" with respect to other things that you say or think are important.

I write this pedantic screed because this is so, so critical to communicate right now. The narrow rocky valley pass in which to lay an ambush, is completely in place.. the budget strings. Everyone knows that this is raw executive power in action.. it is to be, because I say so, implemented via the purse. I am not sure how much to include those backdrop statements in any impactful messaging though, because "there is no bad news in sales" and popularity or adaption is part of the task.

mistrial9

oh this is great "Weather: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver"

Buttons840

I see 3 possibilities: They're cutting it off to limit bad news about climate change, for political reasons. Or they're trying to set up some private company to sell the same data.

Or (tinfoil hat on) they're going to do something the raw microwave data might expose and so they're trying to keep the microwave data secret.

ars

There's a 4th possibility: This program was cancelled in 2015 and it finally ended.

The replacement is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Polar_Satellite_System

recury

The JPSS is complementary. The replacement for the DMSP satellites are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weather_System_Follow-on_Micro...

CharlesW

There's no mystery, this is the execution of Project 2025. https://envirodatagov.org/project-2025-annotation/

burnt-resistor

$10 says they'll discontinue free GPS and make it a paid subscription service too.

mtmail

Russia, China, Europe have similar systems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_navigation#Global_na... It'd be a huge disruption but it's not irreplaceable.

oefrha

It’s not irreplaceable going forward. It’s irreplaceable for all the non-upgradable devices in the field with GPS only.

tokai

With Galileo being interoperable with GPS and more accurate it might not even be that big of a deal.

jimnotgym

Well done to the EU for forseeing this eventuality

chamomeal

Is that possible? I thought GPS works by just listening for signals from GPS satellites?

I’m now realizing I know hardly anything about GPS. Like it was made in the 50’s or something? Do we keep sending more GPS satellites into space? Or are there just the original handful?

hypercube33

The basics of it are it's a digital synchronized time signal sent out by a constellation of satellites. Devices listen for at least 3 separate streams of time signals and the. triangulation happens to get a position.

Irrc the satellite signals not encrypted or whatever were randomized to be inaccurate on purpose. This is mitigated these days by using stuff like cell towers - we know exactly where they are. they pick the same signals out and send out corrections to the randomized data which increases accuracy.

jenadine

The GPS signal can be encrypted such that only the army can access it. The not encrypted signal can be made less accurate or disabled over specific regions.

XorNot

Which would be hilarious because one of the primary reasons GPS became generally accessible was because consumer GPS being accurate made it easier and cheaper to stick GPS in absolutely everything the military uses.

Basically trying to deny accurate positioning tends to not help your own forces as much as it being trivial for them to call back to your giant logistics machine with accurate positioning.

dzhiurgis

It’s already been discontinued by jamming in many places.

Ironically best fit for replacement is Starlink constellation.

IMHO after seeing what Ukraine pulled off in Russia recently - un-jammable gnss is kinda dangerous until drones like Skydio trickle down to the masses.

ars

Such hyperbolic comments!

The DMSP program was discontinued in 2015 by a vote in congress[1]. Virtually every working stallelite in this program has failed. As best as I can tell there's just a single working one specifically NOAA-19[2].

Instead the program has switched to JPSS[3] which is part of GEOSS[4].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_Meteorological_Satelli... (scroll up slightly)

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOAA-19

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Polar_Satellite_System

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Earth_Observation_Syste...

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leereeves

> "There are cybersecurity concerns. That's what we're being told."

Anyone know what that's about?

WarOnPrivacy

> "There are cybersecurity concerns. That's what we're being told."

Let's try to make sense of that.

    1) the cybersecurity talent from DoD and USG is so decimated it can't
    field a response to whatever this concern is or

    2) the DoD has the talent to resolve whatever this concern is and they
    are deliberately leaving this concern in place or

    3) the DoD is lying about a cybersecurity issue being the reason
    that they're withholding lifesaving data (from benefiting
    the public that paid for it).

genter

Fourth option: a cyber company that could potentially sell weather forecast data is loosing it's financial security because NOAA gives it away for free.

bigiain

Blamestorming, fingerpointing, and avoiding saying anything that might make Trump tweet about them in allcaps at 2am.

sunflowerfly

They want to privatize it for private gain and to shut down climate change alarms. It is in Project 2025.

kranke155

it's sure great we have a blueprint that explains all of this in detail.

morkalork

Okay and then what? There's already huge issues with getting home insurance in places like Florida, what will they do, force companies to offer it against their will and see them go broke? Convince people that insurance is woke? There are real problems that aren't going away, regardless of their beliefs.

420official

The thinking is they will offer it at a high enough cost that they don't go broke. The problem is a lot of consumers, if not most, would be fine reading street signs or using mapquest.

mlfreeman

Are the satellites being turned off, or could people with SDRs pick this up directly from space and offer it up for free?

Buttons840

They're DoD satellites, so encryption is a real possibility.

ethan_smith

Yes, many weather satellites broadcast in frequencies accessible to amateur SDR setups (137-138MHz for NOAA polar orbiting satellites), though military weather satellites like DMSP use different frequencies and encryption that make civilian reception significantly more challenging.

hypercube33

saveitforparts actively vlogs about the weather satellite sdr stuff. It's an interesting thing to learn about

righthand

This is part of Project 2025 to destroy the NOAA. [0]

> Break up the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

> "fully commercialize" the National Weather Service's forecasting operations.[1]

[0] https://www.project2025.observer/?search=NOAA

[1] https://www.project2025.observer/?search=Weather

mtmail

One of arguments seems to be based on climate change denial

"Together, these [six main offices of NOAS] form a colossal operation that has become one of the main drivers of the climate change alarm industry and, as such, is harmful to future U.S. prosperity. This industry’s mission emphasis on prediction and management seems designed around the fatal conceit of planning for the unplannable"

"Scientific agencies like NOAA are vulnerable to obstructionism of an Administration’s aims if political appointees are not wholly in sync with Administration policy. Particular attention must be paid to appointments in this area."

sorcerer-mar

> "Scientific agencies like NOAA are vulnerable to obstructionism of an Administration’s aims if political appointees are not wholly in sync with Administration policy. Particular attention must be paid to appointments in this area."

Absolutely mind-boggling that someone can put that in writing with a straight face.

conradev

A lot of very specific things in the original source: https://static.heritage.org/project2025/2025_MandateForLeade...

I found this one funny:

  Overlap exists between the National Marine Fisheries Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. Overly simplified, the NMFS handles saltwater species while the Fish and Wildlife Service focuses on fresh water. The goals of these two agencies should be streamlined.
Right next to

  Scientific agencies like NOAA are vulnerable to obstructionism of an Administration’s aims if political appointees are not wholly in sync with Administration policy. Particular attention must be paid to appointments in this area.
Yikes.

ivape

What in the actual fuck. I can’t believe they are actually doing all those little petty things.

nemomarx

Genuine - did you think it was exaggerated in the media or that they wouldn't? A lot of people seem to have not taken it seriously around 2023, even though it was a very detailed plan with legal strategies, implementations and bills, etc in there.

righthand

A lot of people didn’t take it seriously because the RNC lied about distancing themselves from the Project 2025, which is a meaningless statement that even Democrats believed. It doesn’t really matter if the RNC distances themselves though does it?

TheOtherHobbes

They're not just petty, they're wildly impractical.

You can't privatise NOAA and the services it offers. It cannot work at an equivalent level as a private service. Its effectiveness relies on being able to decide what's valuable in purely scientific terms, and those terms don't align with short-term corporate greed.

But if you ask these cranks what NOAA actually does, they'll have no clue. They're not just evil, they're stupid - the smallest, most banal bureaucrats, cosplaying radicals.

kelnos

They're not trying to privatize NOAA; they're trying to shut it down.

NWS is what they're trying to privatize.

tokai

>It cannot work [...] as a private service

But with public contracts it can be a very effective way to line ones pockets with tax payer money.

righthand

Yes as warned and ignored.

mptest

Literally had this report for years and literally heard the current president praise and endorse it on a hot mic. The fact that, presumably, educated people, are still acting surprised (or worse, legitimately are ignorant) when the reic-i mean presidency was explicitly planned out, in a commissioned by the wealthy, public to all, report by the most connected conservative think tank in the country.

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