Munich from a Hamburger's Perspective
35 comments
·June 15, 2025amunozo
I did a research stay two summers ago in Munich and oh my God, it's the best place I've "lived" by far. So clean, so calm, yet so vibrant.
mft_
Interesting; from my experience, clean, calm, safe, and expensive, but absolutely not what I’d call vibrant. A lot of the time it feels flat and dull in comparison to other large cities - Berlin, London, Barcelona, etc.
(My personal theory is that it’s just too rich and developed; you need cheap ‘edgy’ areas to support the people and business ideas that make places more interesting. Plus Bavarian culture is [in a nutshell] basically Catholic Churches and beer houses/gardens, so not hugely varied.)
CGMthrowaway
Idk about that. The Bavarian State Opera is very good, and all three(!) of Munich's three orchestras are world-class. Munich is a science and tech hub bringing interesting and important transients all the time. It has an amazing art collection, English Gardens that actually get used, and cultural and entertainment amenities that are well-spread across different parts of the city.
Barrin92
>A lot of the time it feels flat and dull in comparison to other large cities [...] My personal theory is that it’s just too rich and developed; you need cheap ‘edgy’ areas
As someone hailing from Cologne but with lots of friends in Munich, I tend to agree. Maybe it's the "Ruhrpott" dysfunction you're used to when you grew up in this part of Germany, but Munich always felt like a giant Apple Store, Hamburg does too but with a Protestant/Nordic spin instead of the posh Catholic south.
I think also another factor is that Munich is monocentric, the urban core absorbed districts very quickly (most people wouldn't know it these days but Bavaria used to be very underdeveloped for a long time) whereas the Ruhr area or Berlin are much more decentralized urban agglomerations, growing over a longer time, making it a bit more chaotic and sprawlish and economically hit or miss.
vasilzhigilei
I lived in Munich for a month a few summers ago. While I enjoyed it, and it was definitely clean, I couldn't help but describe Munich as a "city where people go to work". Pleasant, but not exciting. Very walkable, though!
mvdwoord
I lived there for three years, about 10 years ago, and could not agree more. Highest quality of life I have experienced.
CGMthrowaway
Munich, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Trieste, Krakow, even Innsbruck, Bratislava -
I have traveled all over Europe, just about everywhere, and my favorite cities are consistently in the old Habsburg Realm.
I don't know why but that's what they all have in common.
hellrich
Munich/Bavaria were not ruled by the Habsburgs, unless you want to count the whole Holy Roman Empire.
CGMthrowaway
Yeah good point. Now I need to find a different commonality
ahofmann
A nitpick, that bothers me more, than I'd like to admit: the author talks about the former divide in Germany and the difference between Hamburg and Munich because of that. Problem is, both towns where in west Germany and not divided at all (except of course by the Weißwurstäquator ;-)).
Svip
I assume you are referring to this sentence:
> I know German history and how divided the country used to be, so it shouldn’t be a surprise to see these differences.
The author is not talking about Germany post-WW2, but pre-1870, where Germany was divided into 39 independent states (if we include the Austrian Empire), at least in the 19th century. Before that, the number was likely higher.
German history is a lot longer than the past century.
mc32
It’s true; however it’d probably be a nice parenthetical to add context to the division bring referenced. Kind of how it’s good manners to initially spell out any acronyms at the beginning of a text.
Tomte
> So while Munich was ruled by a single dynasty for centuries, Hamburg was more independent and focused on trade.
> There are also clear religious differences. Both cities were Catholic until the 16th century, but during the Reformation, Hamburg became Protestant.
Etc.
At this point not getting it seems willful.
bee_rider
I read it as more of an “yeah sure, let’s dispense with the really obvious thing” type aside. Going into too much detail would be distracting.
Svip
In truth, I was a bit surprised to see the piece written in English, because it feels like the audience should be German-speaking. Whilst there is an initial paragraph discussing the different situations within the Holy Roman Empire in the 1100s, the Holy Roman Empire itself is never explained, merely assumed (in fact, it is not even mentioned by name). Perhaps it comes natural to Germans themselves that their history of unity is far smaller than their history of division.
gerikson
As soon as I saw the title my thoughts went to the old divide between Lutheran High Germany and Catholic Bavaria. But that's a lot because I had a coworker (from Berlin) whose grandfather was from Bavaria and ran away to sea to avoid becoming a priest, which his mother had promised God he would become for sparing his brother in WW1.
dietr1ch
IMHO abbreviations that you don't define are way easier to miss than context that an audience, maybe larger than originally planned, is going to need.
southernplaces7
Have to admit, I first read, "munching from a hamburger's perspective", expecting a satire about the trauma a burger goes through while being eaten.
ItCouldBeWorse
I find both cities, cultivate a strong "The rest is peasants" vibe - but Hamburg is quite at the top with this. It seeps through the media made there ("Der Spiegel") and the authors writting in it. Its also part of the multi-culturality and openess that comes with having a harbour - which a landlocked city "naturally has a hard time developing". So whenever you goto hamburg from the south, you recieve a ton of subtle signs about the superiority of the city and the "elb-adel" (aristocrats) and its old history ("Wir waren Hanse, wat ward ihr? Bauernvolk für den Märchenkönig bis pleite!"). The harbour of hamburg is old and awesome by the way!
The only thing that really helped to covercome these century old - was ironically the Conscription for the Bundeswehr in the cold war, intentionally mixing recruits allover germany and binding groups of friends together. That is now absent for a while- but the Ruhrpott and hamburg have missmanaged germany for quite a while now - and it shows, as subtle cracks of doubt in the superiority surface.
Cumex and Wirecard showed that elite as the lame ducks without a plan they really are.
PS: This explicitly ignores the Neo-prussians of berlin and the insults they throw at everything outside in the "incest-villages" as they call the rest of germany.
lordnacho
How is it that Hamburg's football club (HSV) is not anywhere near the level of Munich's? They are from similarly large cities, and had somewhat comparable history until it diverged in recent decades.
pchristensen
I was really hoping that this was about a grilled ground beef sandwich opining on a German city :(
water-data-dude
Who do you think has the most interesting time of it? People from Hamburg, Lesbos, or Frankfurt?
Those are the only three I could think of, tricky to put together a search query to find more.
mschuster91
Munich is an awesome city... for a tourist. It's clean, one of the safest cities of Germany (with the exception of the Central Station) and, with the exception of some "Asi-Viertels", well maintained (particularly compared to Berlin, Frankfurt or most of NRW), the attractions are awesome, and the beer is excellent.
For locals though? Speaking as one (who fled a year ago to nearby Landshut and still has to commute)... if you think about moving here, please don't:
- public transport is way too overcrowded, no matter what type of it, and forget about commute by car unless you are rich enough to pay someone to drive for you
- The rents are frankly insane, and fucking Bavarian wannabe-chieftain Söder keeps inviting one big company after another to Munich (instead of, say, Nuremberg for a change) while doing everything he can to avoid and hinder helping Munich alleviate the housing cost crisis.
- Munich's police are rabid if you're not white. Particularly the Central Station is not a good thing to "live while Black" (or dressed like a hippie or alternative), you'll get hounded by them because they can and will suspect you being a drug dealer, although the situation has relaxed a bit ever since cannabis got legalized federally a year ago.
- did I already mention the insane lack of housing? Seriously: prepare to either pay through your nose for short-term accomodation or couchsurfing, unless you are employed at one of the tech giants or rich enough to buy a place in cash you will likely spend a year or two until you have housing. If you are a student, that applies even more.
- a lot of Munich's infrastructure dates back to the money spigot times of the Olympic Games 1972 - and is subsequently shut down for repairs all the time because there hasn't been much invested in maintenance over the decades.
- Oktoberfest, Bauma (the construction trade fair) and the regular Champions League soccer games grind the entire city to a standstill. If you can help it, DO NOT move to any area close to the Theresienwiese (people WILL piss and even shit on your porch, I speak from personal experience) and to the Sechzger-Stadion in Giesing (in addition to the noise, 1860 fans are violent hothead hools that lead to massive disruptions for traffic every time that sorry excuse for a football club has a game).
subarctic
So it's busy, expensive and hard to find a place to live. Sounds like any popular city that lots of people want to move to.
ilumanty
Can confirm every single point you made.
I’d add that riding a bike is also quite stressful at times.
mschuster91
Munich streets are a war zone - you always gotta be the top dog. Too much traffic, way too much.
And yet I routinely see morons here and on r/de + r/Munich advocate to build even more housing for people in Munich... I mean, obviously, more housing is good, but as there is no way to meaningfully expand the capacity of public transport it's frankly useless.
Tornhoof
As someone who still lives in the suburbs of munich, I want to emphasize on the horrible public transportation situation in munich. It's always under construction, nothing really works and, as soon as there is some Public Event, everything breaks down.
donjoe
... If you live close by Theresienwiese, the city provides free cleaning for any accidents during Oktoberfest in your front/backyard also. I have to smile everytime I do find the note containing an emergency accident cleanup number in my mailbox :-)
FirmwareBurner
> inviting one big company after another to Munich (instead of, say, Nuremberg for a change)
Companies go where the workforce already is. No company will waste their time to convince workforce to move to a smaller and cheaper town just for them, and workers won't move to a smaller and cheaper town just for one employer in case it doesn't work out and need to job hop quickly.
As someone who has been to both Hamburg and Munich quite a few times I find them hard to compare. Each city has its own benefits and they are both great in their way.
I think in the end it comes down to whether you like mountains more than harbors. ;-)
Hamburg has its own charme with the harbor and the surrounding history of sailors, trade, red light districts, very old factories etc.
Munich is much more polished but also kind of crammed. Cars everywhere, lots of traffic in the streets, yes, parks also, but... it's different.
I like both cities and also beer from both cities. If you're not from Germany and decide to come over: Visit both of them and enjoy their uniqueness.