How much EU is in DNS4EU?

There is Nextcloud which is not only eu-based but open source as well. You choose what parts you run but it competes with most of workspace and office 365 (everything but the arguably obscure stuff*). I use all three (g-workspace, office 365 and nextcloud) and I strongly prefer nextcloud excluding my private preference of open source - even more so from an administrative perspective (fuck the workspace admin pages, they causes me so much trouble)

Cloudflare I don't know if there are good competitors by my own experience, but some are listed here: https://european-alternatives.eu/alternative-to/cloudflare

*except email-server which although easy to add on trough stalwart or external email provider is technically not part of the nextcloud ecosystem (webmail is however)

Proton is Swiss. That’s part of the CEE. It’s like Norway, EU-adjacent. They are part of a lot of the agreements and their laws track the EU closely where it matters. It makes sense to include in a lot of discussions surrounding sovereignty.

> you can't waste endless resources on building your own internal Cloudflare

The EU has multiple level 1 network operators that would be ideally positioned to build an alternative to Cloudfare if it was truly required. It’s not like they start from zero.

https://www.icewarp.com/ is EU-based (mostly Czech Republic)

There's decent companies doing web and mail here. Most of them don't have a global CDN but for digital sovereignty that's not really an issue. Putting servers in other jurisdictions means they are vulnerable to local laws.

And also, you have to start somewhere. And the American companies often employ business practices we frown on here. Like Google datamining their users. Microsoft linking their services together and abusing their market position. Meta pirating to train their AIs.

Without those things the services will be more expensive, but they'll also be more honourable. I see a lot of people really defeatist these days "why care about privacy because you have none anyway" and this is mostly because of American companies.

https://mailbox.org is hosted entirely in Germany and, at least in my experience, has been absolutely rock solid. It's also very affordable for private use. No Google, no AWS, no Cloudflare. (I'm not affiliated with them, just a happy customer.)

I came across https://tuta.com/ which looks interesting.

https://soverin.com/ ?

well, im quite good with my GMX account? :-))

Doesnt this count?

Sure, not file & coop workspace etc., but it works quite well for me for more than 25 years

Nonetheless, the fact that a digital sovereignty project ends up using American infrastructure for its website and email is a pretty good demonstration of how deeply embedded reliance on the US is.

It's the site you find when you search for dns4eu.

Yeah

Honestly this "deep dive" borders on self loathing

"oh but their email is not in the EU" ok it's a fair criticism, but for some people nothing is good enough

Then we wonder why nothing goes ahead in the EU because once you do something it gets flooded with tire kickers and bikeshedders criticizing everything

for ns in $(dig NS deSEC.io +short); do for ip in $(dig +short $ns); do echo "$ns -> $ip"; whois $ip | grep -i -E "(country|city|netname|orgname)" | head -3; echo; done; done

ns1.deSEC.io. -> 45.54.76.1 NetName: NETACTUATE-MDN-01 OrgName: NetActuate, Inc City: Raleigh

ns2.desec.org. -> 157.53.224.1 NetName: NETACTUATE-MDN-04 OrgName: NetActuate, Inc City: Raleigh

Never heard of them before, but they look interesting, thanks for that. I'll transfer one of my .eu.org domains for testing it out.

deSEC.io is great, been using them more than 3 years. I wish they offered DDNS (like 1984.hosting does).

Also British and I agree. We should have shared goals with a number of other countries in Europe and in the rest of the world. There is a lot of scope for things to be done in cooperation - e.g. shared development of systems and deployment to datacentres in each country that uses it.

How do those regulations work? Is it that anybody providing DNS in any way must block resolution of these addresses, or is it that anybody acting as an ISP must block resolution on their default DNS service?

The latter seems more likely - it's much easier to regulate businesses providing a defined service rather than all servers supporting an arbitrary protocol.

It is the ISPs operating within the country that have been ordered to censor those. Those aren’t enforceable at EU level.

$ whois AS60068 [...] organisation: ORG-DL201-RIPE org-name: Datacamp Limited country: GB org-type: LIR address: 207 Regent Street address: W1B 3HH address: London [...]

https://www.joindns4.eu/learn/dns4eu-public-service-launched

IP's listed here are in CZ.

That's the policy. In real life I only found AS60068.

You don't always want your provider to log all your requests. If you use another one they have to use DPI to see it which is illegal in the EU.

That's part of the writeup.

> Last time I checked GB was not part of the EU. And it’s also a member of FIVE eyes.

  $ dig ns joindns4.eu +short
  ns63.cloudns.net.
  ns64.cloudns.uk.
  ns61.cloudns.net.