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The Hobby Computer Culture

The Hobby Computer Culture

62 comments

·May 24, 2025

ChuckMcM

It was definitely an interesting time. That said, the summer of '78 I was renting a room from an IBM engineer who had bought a Heathkit H-11 and was using it to trade stocks. They would enter the prices from the Wall Street Journal every day of the stocks they were interested it, and then run their "algorithm" over them and it would spit out "weights" for buying or selling various stocks. They could then call their broker and have them execute a trade.

As part of my 'rent' I could help out by entering numbers or verifying numbers for him. I discovered that his portfolio was worth more than $4M and I asked him why he was working at IBM if he was "rich". His answer was that he enjoyed working at IBM, you could just "spend" stock as you would lose out on future growth, and what would he do with his time if he wasn't working? The one conceit he admitted was that his house was paid for so he didn't have to pay a mortgage and that meant he had more disposable income every month.

That was a pretty amazing for me at that age.

The other random factoid was that for 10 years I was President of the "Home Brew Robotics Club" (which is still going on) and it was a direct outgrowth of the Home Brew Computer Club. It was started by Dick Prather as a "SIG" or Special Interest Group where HBCC members who were interested in using their computers with robots would meet and exchange ideas and such.

dfxm12

what would he do with his time if he wasn't working?

In a world so full of interesting, wonderful and curious things, I will never understand people who can't think of anything to do if they didn't have a job. Money is usually a limiting factor, but it sounds like it might not have been for this person.

ChuckMcM

I will never understand people who can't think of anything to do if they didn't have a job.

Let me ask you a question and perhaps it will help?

What if there was something wonderful and curious that you could explore and someone else would actually pay you money while you were exploring that thing?

I've met a number of folks in research who "work" at a University doing their research and even though the pay sucks love what they are doing. You could pay them nothing and they would still love doing it. They might be forced to do something else if they didn't have enough money to live on, but even if they had millions and millions they wouldn't be doing anything differently.

Keith, the guy I was renting the room from, was in the latter position. He didn't "have" to work, and didn't "have" to work at IBM to work on computers, but in doing so he got to satisfy his curiosity and got to work on much better equipment than if he were funding it himself. Is that something understandable?

FWIW, in the Bay Area we call this "failing" at retirement :-) Failing is in quotes because if you choose to go back to work is it really a failure? Had a great conversation with Guido von Rossum when he decided to 'un-retire' and go "work" for Microsoft. There are a lot of things to like about the office, a community, a continual stream of interesting problems to solve, Etc. And knowing that if you didn't like it you can just stop really helps in dealing with people who would attempt to assert power over you.

saulpw

> What if there was something wonderful and curious that you could explore and someone else would actually pay you money while you were exploring that thing?

The days of patronage are basically over; no one pays you real money to explore anymore. Corporations only pay you money to exert your brain towards some goal. There may be an exploration phase but well over half the work will be the grind of bugfixing and maintenance (or equivalent in other fields) that is the actual reason for your employment.

glimshe

I agree with you in principle. At the same time, analysis paralysis and lack of focus can be problems. When you can do 1000 things, what will you pick? Also, are you going to persevere through bumps if you could switch to other 999 things?

emmelaich

For many people, mucking around with computers is a hobby that happens to pay pretty well.

freeone3000

Than working at IBM in peak-mainframe era? I could not imagine a more exciting place to be at that time!

kragen

You could not imagine a more exciting place to be in 01978? How about Xerox PARC, Microsoft, Apple, the MIT AI Lab, Symbolics, LMI, SRI-NIC, Tymshare, Intel, Mostek, Zilog, Control Data Corporation, Cray, Commodore, HP, Texas Instruments, Tandem, DEC, Data General, Linear Technology, Signetics, or CompuServe? You could spend your time inventing things that changed the world for the better, instead of in pointless political maneuvering within IBM to ship products everybody hated.

What are the nearest equivalents today?

protocolture

Lmao, if I had 4 million bucks I would probably be maintaining some old 70s era mainframe trying to get it to do dumb shit like messing with stocks.

This guy got to do it AND got paid.

WorkerBee28474

According to [0], 4 million in August 1978 is 19.5 million today.

[0] https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

ChuckMcM

Sounds about right. I certainly thought it was "infinite" money at the time.

mrandish

While the "hobby computer club culture" is known for introducing Steve Jobs to Woz, I suspect it enabled many thousands of similar life and industry changing personal collisions. It certainly did for me. In 1982 my teenage self started a local computer club for my 4K 8-bit Radio Shack Color Computer which I promoted by printing up flyers and driving around to a dozen Radio Shack stores and convincing the managers to post them near the computer. The first meeting was at my house with a dozen or so people but quickly outgrew that and moved to a local community center. I mostly started it because there was a lack of information that was specific to the computer I owned except for two hobby-level monthly 'zines (only available by subscription) and I didn't have any computer knowledge myself (or know anyone with a computer).

Fortunately, a fair number of people who came to the club knew more than I did about our computer and computers in general. I acquired much of my early computer knowledge from those people as well as getting my first two programming jobs through club contacts despite having no resume or computer-specific education. Eventually the club grew to several hundred people, became a registered non-profit corporation and had a volunteer board of directors (who were all older and more experienced than I was about, well - almost everything). I describe myself as a "self-taught programmer" but a good part of that was also being informally 'club-taught' because I had people to ask when I got stuck. They may not have always had the answer but hearing how they thought through solving it was also an education.

I can trace back my entire life-long career as an (eventually) successful serial entrepreneur in desktop computer-centric software and hardware to that club I naively started 45 years ago - and I still have five close friends I met at the club despite all of us moving across the country and around the world several times. And each of those friends has gone on to have notably interesting and productive computer-related careers too.

jjav

I am also a Radio Shack Color Computer alumni, owe my career to it. I started using OS-9 as soon as I could afford to upgrade to 64K RAM, to which I thank feeling right at home with SunOS after I got access to that in the university.

To anyone unfamiliar, which is probably most people, OS-9 was a multi-user multi-tasking operating system which ran on 6809 CPUs. While not a UNIX, it was similar enough that the transition to SunOS was smooth.

To this day, I still alias "ls -la" to "dire", which comes from my muscle memory of typing "dir -e" in OS-9!

bityard

This happened a couple decades later, but my first FOUR tech jobs came from attending a local Linux user group and networking with the people there.

I was talking to someone and explaining that I was taking classes at a local community college in preparation for computer science degree and mentioned off-hand that I might try to find some part-time Linux/BSD sysadmin work at some point. (I never fully attained the degree but also ended up not needing it.) The owner of a local IT consulting business overheard me and called me up the next day. I worked for him for a while and the next three jobs I moved to after that were all based on referrals and recommendations from people in that group.

robterrell

Here's a fun fact: in the photo of the Byte Shop, the person in the window with their back to the camera is John Draper, the legendary hacker known as Captain Crunch.

JKCalhoun

Wild. How do we know that? (Is that his VW outside?)

robterrell

My uncle is Paul Terrell, the owner of that Byte Shop. He showed me the photo and told me who was in the window. But I don't have an independent verification of this -- dunno, maybe Captain Crunch is a lurker here?

JKCalhoun

Very cool.

BizarroLand

I've been fascinated with the phreaks ever since I downloaded my first copy of the anarchists guide off my local BBS.

nxobject

You might like Evan Doorbell's YT channel then – he has a lot of old tapes from his misspent youth traveling the world on Ma Bell's dime, and has posted a lot of videos explaining it all for a generation (like mine) without any frame of reference.

https://www.youtube.com/@evandoorbell4278

plapsley

Evan's stuff is excellent and worth watching/listening to.

Shameless plug: if you like his stuff, you might also like my book, "Exploding The Phone", which is a history of phone phreaking. https://explodingthephone.com/

Evan narrated the Audible version. :-)

tocs3

The first buyers of Altair could not find it in any shop. Every transaction occurred via a check sent to MITS, sight unseen, in the hopes of receiving a computer in exchange.

I remember looking at lots of the add in the back of all the magazines and comic books (and paperbacks) being amazed at all the stuff on offer. Just send a check or money order and get you own ...

Then in the 1990's with internet commerce getting started I remember a lot of skepticism with comments like "who would send money to someone they have never met".

No drawing any conclusions here, just looking back and seeing similarities and changes.

kens

I remember the big 1977-1979 scam with DataSync, World Power Systems, and "Colonel David Winthrop" advertising S-100 boards and other computer stuff but not shipping it to purchasers while also ripping off his suppliers. The article mentions Colonel Whitney (not Winthrop) for some reason

Interesting article on it: https://medium.com/@madmedic11671/forgotten-fraud-world-powe...

cfmcdonald

Author here. Thank you for the reference, this is very helpful. The name "Colonel Whitney" came from a 1984 Stan Veit article: https://www.atariarchives.org/deli/computer_magazine_madness...

Obviously he misremembered the name. I wasn't able to find other references to corroborate more details of the scam, but of course now I know that I wasn't searching for the correct name.

WillAdams

The difference here is that orders placed by USPS mail were subject to mail fraud regulations _and enforcement_ --- that was _not_ in place for early internet ordering.

My kids were quite amazed when they found my copy of a book whose approximate title was _Specialty Mail Order Catalogs_, which is apparently so obscure I'm not finding it on Goodreads or Abebooks --- will have to check the ISBN the next time it comes up and add it to the former.

AStonesThrow

My father's stereo system was installed in our living room, a Heathkit with discrete components, probably a tube-transistor hybrid type. I did not witness him in the process of assembling it.

But in those days, there were the trade magazines on the newsstand, the electronics shops and clubs where guys hung out to talk about calculators and radios and jukeboxes and pinball machines.

It looks like MITS was already into calculators and model rocketry. And getting featured on the cover of Popular Electronics gave them a boost. Undoubtedly, plenty of ads in the back for mail-order kits, and then you'd be signed up for ever-more specialized company catalogs.

It was the same when I collected vinyl records and built computers. Find the right trade magazines and the crusty old guys tending storefronts, and you could learn about the next big thing.

Of course there were also comic books sold to gullible children with catalogs and ads in the back pages. Snapping gum, whoopee cushions, spy cameras, and X-ray Specs. You could count on being disappointed by purchasing something on that list, but it was often a matter of clever misrepresentation by marketing blurbs and a sketch.

One night 8-year-old me phoned in an order for a "remote control hovercraft". It came "collect-on-delivery" which Mom didn't like. The hovercraft was not radio-controlled as I had imagined. It had a flashlight-like handle that held 2x "D" cells and a motor that rotated a thin cable. The cable stretched several feet to a "hovercraft" with a light plastic hull and fan blades. So you could walk it around the room like a marionette as the downdraft held it suspended a little bit.

Only a few years later, I began receiving mail from AARP. The hovercraft sellers had sold them my address and pseudonym. We could tell, because the hovercraft-selling lady had misspelled my first name. Good times.

UncleSlacky

> The hovercraft was not radio-controlled as I had imagined. It had a flashlight-like handle that held 2x "D" cells and a motor that rotated a thin cable. The cable stretched several feet to a "hovercraft" with a light plastic hull and fan blades.

I had one of those, though I knew what I was getting (from Edmund Scientific Catalog).

ToucanLoucan

That quote bugs me a little because it presumes that mail order hadn't existed before then, that it was some sort of "act of faith." Sears was selling whole ass houses via the mail in the early 1900's, that's where the term "Craftsman home" came from; it's literally the then-owned-by-Sears brand.

quesera

> that's where the term "Craftsman home" came from

FWIW, this etymology is incorrect. The American Craftsman architecture style was a derivative of the British Arts & Crafts movement, post Victorian era.

Timeline is roughly: Arts & Crafts circa 1880, American Craftsman circa 1900.

The Sears Craftsman brand was created in 1927.

bityard

Yes, but there was still fraud. You didn't send your money away to just any random ad you ran across. Sears was VERY well known. And if you didn't know the company or its reputation, you likely wouldn't send your money away to buy something without at _least_ hearing a positive experience from someone you know and trust.

MITS was not unknown, but they were not a household name. And any microcomputer at that time was quite an expensive toy. Costing an amount that a lot of people could not really afford to just lose.

Teever

Yeah but Sears is a reputable company selling reputable brands that became so ubiquitous as to enter into the lexicon.

That's miles apart from some fly by night catalogue with ads from Jim Bob selling what was only a decades prior the domain of science fiction and corporate offices.

Like look at it another way. If some fly by night website was selling what they claimed was a desktop replicator for $5000 and someone posted it on Hackernews the top comment would be about how the website isn't responsive and the language is in broken english and somewhere towards the bottom would be a flame war started by some curious person saying "I'm gonna go for it. I just bought it."

phendrenad2

People still build their own computers. Just the other day I saw a (relatively recent) design for an Intel 486 motherboard. The only difference is they don't really do anything with these hobby computers.

kragen

The article says, "Discussion of practical software applications appeared infrequently. One intrepid soul went so far as to hypothesize a microcomputer-based accounting program, but he doesn’t seem to have actually written it." So I think building hobby computers you don't really do anything with was already a popular activity at the time.

criddell

I’ve always been really loved the bicycles for the mind metaphor and for a while I was cataloging different ways the metaphor works for me. Not sure what I did with that list, but compiling it was fun and made me think about how I chose to use technology.

It feels like the era of the personal computer ended around the turn of the century though.

WillAdams

As a person who has finally arrived at a programming setup which allows him to finally do what he has dreamed about since first trying to sketch things up on a Koala Pad attached to a Commodore 64, I would like to gainsay that the personal computer revolution has come to an end.

When OpenSCAD was first released, I finally had a 3D modeling environment which made sense to me.

When the Shapeoko was first announced on Kickstarter (which made use of the opensource projects Arduino, Grbl, and Makerslide, and was iself initially opensource) I finally had a robotic shop assistant which allowed me to make pretty much anything I wanted w/o the need to make myriad fixtures and jigs or to limit myself to traditional joinery techniques.

When Python was added to OpenSCAD as: https://pythonscad.org/ I finally had a programming environment which allowed not just 3D modeling but also mutable variables _and_ the ability to write out files so as to make DXFs or G-code.

So, I am working on:

https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview

and have been using it for my personal projects for a while now --- hopefully I will have a suitably intricate project ready to function as a showcase for its capabilities in a month or so.

criddell

That looks really cool and I like that it isn’t a website. There’s a Whitfield Diffie quote I’ve mentioned a few times on HN. It’s from Ellen Ullman’s book Life in Code[1]:

> We were slaves to the mainframe! [Diffie] said. Dumb terminals! That's all we had. We were powerless under the big machine's unyielding central control. Then we escaped to the personal computer, autonomous, powerful. Then networks. The PC was soon rendered to be nothing but a "thin client," just a browser with very little software residing on our personal machines, the code being on network servers, which are under the control of administrators. Now to the web, nothing but a thin, thin browser for us. All the intelligence out there, on the net, our machines having become dumb terminals again.

Applications like yours claw back a little of that power. Very nice.

[1]:https://archive.org/details/life-in-code-a-personal-history-...

WillAdams

Thanks!

Yeah, I've never understood how folks who managed to escape from the schackles of mainframe central computing are willing to ease into the padded cell afforded by cloud computing.

JKCalhoun

Just to pick a turning point of sorts, it ended when you needed to password protect your "account". In short, the internet killed the "personal" computer.

msgodel

I think LLMs will bring it back. This is one part of the future I'm hopeful about.

On the other hand I was thinking something similar with smartphones and look how that ended up.

fernly

The address given for the Byte Shop, "1063 El Camino Real in Mountain View", is ambiguous. It needs to specify either 1063 EAST El Camino Real or 1063 WEST El Camino Real, two quite different locations.

Neither of those matches the store that I remember patronizing circa 1978 or so, to buy a California Computer Systems S-100 box. That would have been on El Camino just north of Grant Road, circa 80 W El Camino.

always-open

It’s West. If you look at google maps for that location, there is a landmark pinned for “The Original Byte Shop”. There you can see a B&W photo from back in the day.

jasoneckert

I'd argue that this hobby computer culture is still alive in well, but in a different form: the large number of vintage computing hobbyist groups that work to restore, understand, and make new hardware for the simplistic systems that formed the early days of computing. They enjoy the same optimism that drove the early hobby culture, but from a different vantage point - one of research and understanding - but the enjoyment and excitement are still there.

kragen

There's enjoyment and excitement, but rather than the optimism of an unbounded future of unimaginable wonders, in my experience they're animated by a profound pessimism about the current state of computing and where it's going.

trinsic2

> …personal computers have already proliferated beyond most government regulation. People already have them, just like (pardon the analogy) people already have hand guns. If you have a computer, use it. It is your equalizer. It is a way to organize and fight back against the impersonal institutions and the catch-22 regulations of modern society.[28]

And now look where we are at, we allowed impersonal institutions to use them against us.

emmelaich

Alongside the "excessive discussion of “super space electronic hangman life-war pong” were hardware hackers hooking up an S100 bus to AppleIIs or running CP/M on some weird machine via a z80 add-on card.

The other classic, risible, software discussion were hackers suggesting writing a recipe database program. Typically to keep their (typically female) partner from condemning their hobby as a waste of time.

ferguess_k

I wonder whether the hobbyist/hacker mindset versus the big metal mindset has anything to do with Cutler's distaste for Unix.

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