By default, Signal doesn't recall
299 comments
·May 21, 2025overgard
throitallaway
I absolutely hate how Windows now basically forces you to sign in with a Microsoft ID in order to facilitate this kind of stuff. I just want a local system; I don't need all this online crap built into my desktop OS.
For the last two decades or so I've been running Linux for everything (personal and work) except for gaming. I'm to the point of being sufficiently annoyed with Windows that I'm going to set up a Linux disk for gaming to see how that goes. I've used Wine etc. for gaming sporadically throughout the years. Recently that landscape has improved quite a bit thanks to Valve.
sedatk
I thought OneDrive asked for your credentials separately. Did you previously sign in to it, but remove it from startup?
coldpie
Just do it, man. There will be some pains in the first year or two, but it's so, so much better on the other side.
ajsnigrutin
Chrome on linux does the same sadly... prompts to be the default browser, never remembers the "no" option, and if you misclick the small 'x', it sets itself as the default again.
People have actually written apparmour configs to prevent that: https://sergei.nz/stop-google-chrome-from-hijacking-mimes/
vel0city
I'm happy to have this setting. It's a great setting and I appreciate Signal adding it.
However, if an attacker has the ability to directly query the Recall database, they almost certainly have access to read all your Signal messages on your device. The locations where Recall files live are even more protected and isolated than your %APPDATA%\Roaming\Signal directory is.
Everything running as you on your computer has full control of all your Signal messages and your identity assigned to the device. This is untrue of your Recall data, which from last I saw required a lot of finagling to get the permissions right for you to access it raw.
advisedwang
At least this gives forward secrecy, so if someone takes control of your computer they can only spy on signal messages AFTER that point, and can't access prior messages that Recall has captured.
vel0city
This is only forward secrecy for messages that were deleted and would have been captured by Recall and are still within the snapshot history which has a maximum number of days.
All the messages you've previously synced to the device exist in that Signal AppData directory and can be trivially searched and read by any application running as your user account. And all attachments are also just sitting there.
For example:
mmooss
I agree with Signal here and love their commitment. Strangely (to me) they do 'recall' things in other ways:
* They have a message retention setting, 'Disappearing messages'; it works on message correspondents' devices too (if Ali sets Disappearing messages' to '1 day' for the chat with Barry, and then texts Barry, 1 day later Signal deletes the message on both Ali's and Barry's devices).
However, 'Disappearing messages' applies only to text messages. For every voice and video call, Signal retains a record of the date and time and the participants, and Signal saves it on the devices of each participant. Beyond a doubt, Signal's developers are well aware of the value of such metadata - as valuable as call content, in different ways - and the need for confidentiality (if you aren't familiar with that particular issue, I promise that every security professional is).
I'm shocked that they do it. What about a human rights dissident who is arrested - or whose phone is stolen - their phone won't show any sign of the text messages but it shows everyone they called and when, implicating all those other people and putting them at risk, and also evidence against the phone's owner. And even if they are disciplined and manually delete each of those records - afaik you can delete each call record one at a time - the other call participants' phones still retain the records. There is nothing someone can do to protect themself.
Better security here doesn't seem hard to implement. Also, I think having different settings for text messages and for voice/video calls makes retention settings more confusing for users. Many will believe they are safe without realizing the risk of this metadata - they trust the experts at Signal to understand these things and keep them safe - and many will assume everything disappears. Just have one setting for all data and metadata in the chat.
* Also, afaik if you delete the entire correpondence with someone - delete their entire chat history and delete them from the Signal address book - Signal retains information on them, such as settings for that chat. It seems that an attacker could identify all the deleted correspondents; again, there's no way to protect yourself.
lblume
> Better security here doesn't seem hard to implement.
You seem to assume it would be very simple to implement this — how do you come to this conclusion? My priors would suggest that the vast amount of effort that went into the Signal protocol renders low-hanging fruit regarding privacy fairly unlikely.
stavros
The GP is actually right here, Signal keeps the call log in the message history (deleting the call entry from the message history deletes it from the call log), but the disappearing messages setting doesn't get applied to the call log.
It's weird to see a bunch of messages, a call, more messages, and a day later the messages around are gone, but the call remains in the history. They could have just applied the disappearing messages settings to the call entries too, as it would be natural to do, and this problem wouldn't exist.
I don't think it's malicious, because what the server knows is independent of what the UI shows, but it's a very odd UI issue that does reduce privacy.
mmooss
> Signal keeps the call log in the message history
Do you mean in the UI or do you mean in the underlying database, or in both?
mmooss
> vast amount of effort that went into the Signal protocol
If it requires protocol development, I'd agree. I expect - knowing no more than Signal's blog posts - that it has two components:
* Local database: These records need a retention period column, somehow - however they implement it with text messages. That seems straightforward.
* 'Distributed retention' - implementing the retention period setting on the remote devices of other call participants. I expect they would do it the same way they do with text messages, and I would guess it's just a field in a packet somewhere; e.g., establish a secure connection and then in the call's initial packet,
time = 2025-05-21T22:13:11Z
call.from = lblume
call.to = mmooss
retention.period = 1440 minutesbcoates
Maybe I'm nuts, but I absolutely love timesnapper (the non-LLM predecessor of Recall, but the same screenshot every few seconds concept).
I originally got it for it's main advertised function--making it easy to record hours for contract billing--but once I had it running I was hooked.
It's just incredibly useful to be able to pull up what you were doing at any given moment, or how you did a particular thing, a few months after the fact.
I haven't used Recall yet but hooking it up to a multimodal LLM seems like an obviously useful thing.
godelski
I wonder if 2025 will be the year of Linux.
Windows has turned itself into spyware. Apple is too expensive and going the same way.
Meanwhile the user experience of Linux has dramatically increased. Put on a good skin and most people wouldn't notice the difference. You don't need to reply that you can, I know you can. You're on HN. But most people just use their computer for the browser and most people can't tell Chrome from Firefox. Most people get their lockin by their tech friend or child. Really, Microsoft's only lockin remains Office.
It won't be a complete shift but the signs of growing userbase is there. Would be a huge win for open source! If you haven't tried Linux in a few years try giving something like PopOS a go or if you want to say you use Arch then try EndeavourOS. Both are very stable, latter slightly less.
Edit: enfuse was right, I should have suggested EndeavourOS instead of Manjaro.
WD-42
The problem is, until laptops sold at Walmart or Best Buy start coming with Linux pre-installed as an option, adoption will never happen. Installing an aftermarket OS is just an incredibly unrealistic expectation from the average user.
Microsoft knows this, and they will do everything they can to prevent OEMs from shipping anything other than Windows. Apple of course, forget it. Their profit comes from leeching off FOSS and selling it, they would never allow distribution of it directly.
godelski
> until laptops sold at Walmart or Best Buy start coming with Linux pre-installed as an option
If you want to see this, make sure your browser agent is broadcasting Linux[0]. Make sure you're using Steam in Linux.
But right now Steam has Linux at <3%[1]. It is more than OSX, but not enough. I do think above 5% and it'll start to be taken seriously, and 10% we'll start seeing moves. Linux doesn't need 90% of the marketshare to dramatically change the world. 10% is more than enough. Even 20% would be momentous and force both Microsoft and Apple to change strategies. Don't feel like there's no hope. Just because it is an unrealistic expectation today doesn't mean it will be tomorrow. And your actions today change the odds of what happens tomorrow. So don't give up.
You don't have to change the world overnight. But you do need to make steps in the right direction, even if small, to make the world move.
[0] You can even do this while using Windows! Hell, you can use Chrome and tell people you're using Firefox on Linux if you believe in those things but just are unwilling to make the switch yourself. The signaling still does something (it is better than nothing).
[1] https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Softw...
Analemma_
> But right now Steam has Linux at <3%[1].
I think the overwhelming majority of this is Steam Deck usage. While that's certainly a feather in the cap for Linux, I don't think really counts toward Linux momentum as we're using the term here. Nobody is going to start investing in polished desktop Linux software because there are a lot of Steam Deck buyers.
31337Logic
Yo. Just came here to say Thanks for the inspiring post. We need more you. ;^)
90s_dev
Most people just don't care that they're being spied on. Most people don't care about anything actually, they're in a constant state of despair and see no point to anything so they just try to make the best of the time they have.
LexiMax
This seems like a worldview borne from an era where the PC was _the_ definitive, ubiquitous computing device of choice for the layperson. These days, that crown is taken by the smartphone.
If you need a PC in 2025, you're probably a fair bit more knowledgeable than someone buying one in 2005. You're also almost certainly buying one online, possibly even directly from the manufacturer or builder, which means the seller can simply give you options and doesn't have to worry about competing for store shelf space.
ChrisMarshallNY
> These days, that crown is taken by the smartphone.
Which, if you use Android, is ...Linux...
iOS is really just repackaged UINX.
ethagnawl
> Microsoft knows this, and they will do everything they can to prevent OEMs from shipping anything other than Windows
You're right and they effectively licensed XP to Asus for free for use on the Eee PC (which originally only shipped with Linux) when it was shaping up to be a hit.
This is a worthwhile watch if you're interested in this corner of computing history: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVno8dlM3E
keyringlight
The way that the netbook 'evolutionary branch' went from lean and mean to underspecified bloated windows small laptops is one where I really wonder if MS suffocated something that would have been to their benefit longer term if only they could have put out their own lean OS and an ecosystem of lean software to run on it.
It was at the time mobiles were picking up momentum, and just before tablets arrived on the scene (the ipad launched 2010, the tablet focused Android 3 came out in 2011), and a lot of people migrated away from windows for their personal computing needs. There's also been MS's ultimately failed efforts for their own mobile platform. Besides the established huge momentum of gaming and professional/office usage it's difficult to see why consumers would move to windows, or what MS offers to prevent the momentum slowing and linux slowly chipping away at it.
caseyy
You can buy a PC with Linux off the shelf in some countries. In practice, it's an open secret that the machines are for people who don't want to pay for a Windows license but will use Windows anyway.
amatecha
Adoption is already happening, as it has been for years, but especially now that MS and Apple are producing worse and worse OS/software that treats the people who use it worse and worse. I'm frequently pleasantly surprised by hearing that someone uses a Linux machine with regularity. It used to be a really rare, techie-only kind of thing. Pulling people away from literal decades of complete personal-computing domination with a completely free, near-zero-marketing alternative is a very slow, gradual process. It's great that those dominant vendors are doing their very best to push everyone to the alternatives :)
jayofdoom
ChromeOS is the desktop linux you can get installed on Wal-Mart PCs. It is linux even if not the linux we want :D
CalRobert
For what it's worth, it can almost be done (but is still a minority) https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell-laptops/scr/laptops/app...
pseudosavant
The year of Linux already happened quite a while ago (check your router, Android phone, TV, or countless other smart devices).
The year of desktop Linux on the other hand? It will never happen. It is a value like ∞ that you can never reach.
singron
Linux marketshare is steadily increasing, especially among English speakers. It's complicated by how you want to count the Steam Deck, but the steam hardware survey has a clear upward trend: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/steam-tracker/
We could get to 30% in just 60 years!
noman-land
Here's one data point. My grandmother and mother now both use Raspberry Pis as their primary computers and are 100% satisfied. My father is looking to switch as well and he's been setting up a GrapheneOS phone I made for him which runs flawlessly.
If year of Linux doesn't arrive by choice, authoritarianism will force the issue one way or another.
DrewADesign
Linux is great for technical people, or at least technically-inclined and patient people, who can overcome the inevitable technical obstacle that most of us don't even think about. It's also great for people whose needs are so basic-- email client and web browser basic-- that once they're set up with a default everything, they have no interest in doing anything that might present a technical obstacle.
Neither of those user groups are the problem. The problem is the majority of computer users that have real practical skill born from computer use at school, work, while gaming, doing art, etc. They want to do enough with their computer to run up against technical obstacles, but
a) don't have the significant amount of prerequisite knowledge we take for granted to generalize what they know to other operating systems
b) don't have the subject matter interest to inspire them to get that knowledge
and those two things mean
c) view any extra steps required to do something on Linux (e.g. use wine to run software they've been using for a decade) as a needless hassle that prevents them from doing what they really want to do, rather than a satisfying problem to solve because configuring the computer is part of the fun.
So if they hadn't already given up on Linux, they might ask one of the bazillion "Hey I'm a bit of a noob here, but..." questions on reddit or whatnot only to receive a barrage of conceited responses by zealots who make it very clear how put-out they are by their question-- which they didn't have to read, let alone answer-- and how rude it was for them to not read entry 427 on the FAQ which leads to a page of resources that might have addressed part of their problem. If nothing else has already discouraged them from continuing, that sure will.
Unless someone with those users' needs at the forefront of their design practice Bluesky's Linux (some like pop os are making a solid effort), it will never ever work as a general-purpose desktop OS.
Noumenon72
The conceited response problem is solved by the infinitely patient ChatGPT.
mikepurvis
My kids have an old Thinkpad T440p that's their Scratch/Roblox/Minecraft machine, and overall it works well enough running Ubuntu (originally 22.04, then 24.04, now 25.04). But it has been far from seamless:
- the built in bluetooth and wifi can't be used at the same time; for a while we mitigated this with a USB wifi module, but that eventually broke and so now bluetooth is just disabled.
- it's hard to figure out what apps and app data are shared between users. AFAICT there's one Steam install my kids are sharing, but each one installs their own copy of a game, which is terrible for disk usage.
- a bunch of games don't work, especially from non-steam sources like Epic and Itch.io. I've heard about the Heroic Launcher, and I will try it at some point, but it's just... one more fiddly thing to have to mess with.
- several Minecraft launchers / mod-managers have been tried, but I can't seem to keep my Microsoft account logged in on there, so I eventually just put my password on a sticky note so they could re-auth it whenever needed (fortunately I don't use it for anything else).
- unattended-upgrades pulled a new kernel and the thing just panicked on startup until I went into the grub menu to get the previous one and reverted.
- until 25.04 the power management story was terrible, the machine would chew through the whole (newly replaced) battery in less than an hour.
As a competent nerd I've been ~fine with all this, but it's honestly right on the edge of acceptable. I expect a normal person would immediately give up in the face of most of these— either give up in terms of ditching the machine/OS or give up as in accepting a limitation like it just doesn't play that game or I just can't use my earbuds.
abdullahkhalids
I used to work on a T440s on Debian from 2013 - 2017. I am surprised that your battery life is so poor on Ubuntu. I was able to frequently push my 9-cell battery laptop to 12 hours with careful usage.
If I forgot my charging cable at home, I could do a full day at the office with music and internet on battery.
vegadw
The minecraft thing is a problem regardless of launcher, to the point that I actively condone people pay for the game then find ways to not require online auth.
Some moron at Microsoft decided that if your password is serving its purpose and people aren't able to get in but that there are a bunch of attempts that you should need to reset your password. Because of this, I have to reset my password. Every. Time. I. Want. To. Play.
But that means multiple 2FA codes to both my non-mirosoft account email and to my phone. All in all, it usually takes about 7 or 8 minutes each time I want to play, which is an ABSURD amount of friction for an account I don't want to be using to play the game anyway, given when I bought it it was a Mojang account without all the associated, creepy TOS changes.
Don't be afraid to look around for ways to play without a legitimate account if you've paid. If that's the better experience, it is what it is.
test1235
This is a perspective I'd like to hear more often. Too often I hear all these supposed ideal solutions without mentioning the pitfalls of having to support a non-technical family.
Pi hole is a good example. Do all websites (and other services) still work perfectly but without ads, or am I going to have to endure sighing and eyerolling everytime someone asks me why their site isn't loading (again)?
LtWorf
I have been using thinkpads since forever and bluetooth and wifi both work (at the same time, yes). It seems more likely to be a broken machine. Which can happen.
I had a faulty keyboard on a thinkpad that was causing a lot of seemingly unrelated problems, like freezes or suspend not working. Replacing the keyboard resolved everything.
Try to switch them to luanti!
31337Logic
+1 for setting up parents with Linux. In my case, a Chromebook I hacked to run Mint. Like fucking hell I'm going to let senior parents navigate the virus known as Windows 11, complete with forced updates and reboots, disappearing customizations, and the constant and unrelenting spyware?! No thanks.
heresie-dabord
Which models have you given them? Linux has been my computing best friend for more than a decade and I have also enjoyed using the Raspberry Pi 400.
But the Raspberry Pi 500 (keyboard model) is even better and (literally and figuratively) a cool design. You get 8GB RAM, boot from NVME, Debian with Wayland (labwc), and the R.Pi community.
TiredOfLife
Give starving person a rotten potato and they will gladly eat it. It doesn't make the rotten potato a good source of nutrition.
presbyterian
> Apple is too expensive
Is it? You can get an M1 MacBook Air at Walmart for $699 now. That's more than many of the bottom-of-the-barrel Windows machines out there, but it's not an unreasonable price at all. It'll keep away the lowest-end users, but most of those users 1) are not going to care about the security issues, because they don't know anything about computers beyond base utility, and 2) have mostly switched to doing everything on their phone/tablet, and aren't as big of the computer demographic these days anyway.
AnthonyMouse
The $699 MacBook Air has 8GB of RAM. That's hardly enough now, much less if you plan to keep it for a few years. Which hardly matters when you can get 64GB of DDR5 to put in it for less than $100. Except that it isn't upgradable.
rpgbr
I've been using 8 GB of RAM MacBook since 2015, and by then this “8 GB isn't enough” chorus was strong. Nowadays I use a M1 Air, 8 GB of RAM, zero complains, really.
For most people that just browse the web, write some stuff and do their email, 8 GB is still enough.
presbyterian
I've been using an M1 MBP with 8GB of RAM since 2020 for video editing, Blender, music production, and web development, and it's fine. It's not perfect, but it's totally serviceable and I rarely think about it, which tells me that 8GB is enough for the average computer user who's doing much less intense work.
lurking_swe
many people in this thread are saying average users are just using their web browser, so they are “served fine with linux”. But apparently 8GB is unacceptable to run a web browser on mac os.
So which is it? lol.
And FYI 8GB is more than enough for a casual desktop/laptop user, at least on the M series macs. I used my wife’s M1 macbook air with 8GB of ram for a week while my new laptop was shipping in the mail. Even if I pushed it with 1 or 2 heavy apps, such as IntelliJ IDE (java development), it performs pretty well, albeit with some paging to disk on large projects. Barely noticeable and the system remained very responsive. For casual usage (zoom, google docs, gmail, instagram) it didn’t fill up the ram.
throitallaway
Yeah, Apple's bottom barrel pricing isn't terrible, but as soon as you start upping specs the price goes out of control (disproportionally from the underlying costs.) Looking at pricing for the current Macbook Air, it's $400 to upgrade from 16GB to 32GB. A 16GB SODIMM costs ~$40 retail.
jonfw
8GB of RAM w/ swap on SSD is just fine for most use cases
bobajeff
No, $699 is too much. That being said price isn't the only thing that keeps me away from Apple. They are beautiful systems but very annoying to use IMO. Speaking as a long time Linux user who occasionally helps people with their computer problems (Mac and Windows).
Almondsetat
$699 for a computer that will stop getting updates in just a few years
copperx
That's about 6 years. Plenty enough for a laptop that's not upgradeable.
kevin_thibedeau
For some perspective: Computer Shopper 1993 GW2K 386SX at $1300. Today that is $2800. That $699 Mac is getting you a machine that would have been a TOP500 supercomputer in the 90s.
dogleash
Hard agree. My parents and siblings are all on my hand-me-down laptops running ubuntu. It was painless because how much they'd rather do on their phones and they know what the Chrome button looks like. The kind of stuff they can't figure out is the same stuff they called me for on windows too. My brother is from the older set of millennials that grew up with DOS, so he's apt-upgrading on his own.
acaloiar
I love linux. It's been my primary OS nearly my whole life. It's not the year of linux.
Retr0id
I'd like this to be true, but Windows has been getting incrementally more user-hostile for a long time now. I'm not sure this change is going to mark any particular tipping point.
godelski
I think it can be true, but we have to make it happen. One of the biggest problems I see is that we complain about things like Linux in these comparative settings, as if we don't have to make a choice. It's like saying you don't want to eat a cookie because the chef sneezed in it and instead giving you a cookie the chef took a shit in. Sure, I'd rather have neither, but if I have to eat a cookie I know which one I'd choose.
Retr0id
Who is "we"?
matthewdgreen
I just want to vent here about the recent experience I had buying and installing MS Office 365 for my wife’s small business. I had assumed since the competition is effortless and free, MS would at least make Office for Desktop relatively easy to pay for. Instead I got suckered into paying for “Basic”, which doesn’t support desktop apps. The “supports desktop apps” version costs more, but the big problem is it’s not explained within the apps what you need to upgrade to (there are many plans.) Then once you finally figure out how to upgrade, the subscription and payment sites repeatedly error out. Once you force through an immediate upgrade, it turns out that it’s not immediate and takes an hour to go through.
This is mostly just venting, but if the “please take my money” pathways of MS’s most popular product work this badly, I don’t even want to think about ever going back to Windows.
AnthonyMouse
What many have yet to notice is that Microsoft now makes more money from Cloud than they do from Windows, so the purpose of Windows is now as the funnel for Microsoft's cloud services. It's like using an operating system made by GoDaddy.
neogodless
Average computer users could probably switch... but it would require one of two things:
Some way to make it ridiculously low friction for existing hardware owners to get into Linux. Like, less friction than downloading an ISO, mounting it, and installing it on your computer.
Or make computers come with it when people buy them. (This is still vanishingly rare.)
**
As a power user... I still have a few issues, some that might be common, and some that might be quite rare/unique to me. For example, post-concussion I really can't stand low refresh rates, and screen brightness is important to me. During my last 2-month Linux experiment, I had issues with controlling those things which was a mix of hardware, drivers, Linux kernel, GPU modes, etc. These sort of issues seem to be less and less common in Linux, and I'm optimistic, but I also am hesitant to sacrifice my own health to make a switch away from Windows. (Mental health aside.)
And some games still don't work right, at least not on launch. Which can make me sad as someone who plays games socially.
As a photographer, I bought and use DxO PhotoLab. I've compared alternatives, and I like it much better. It doesn't mean I couldn't use darktable but I definitely don't like it anywhere near as much. (And no, DxO does not support Linux.)
caseyy
People say more Linux availability would make it mainstream. However, Chromebooks are one of the most available laptops. The software is 100% compatible with hardware, and in many cases, the Play Store is included to address the lack of software. That is more than enough for casual computing and office work—two massive segments of the PC user market. And people still don't like them. ChromeOS's market share is similar to that of all the other Linux distributions.
I think the Windows and MacOS brands have become lifestyle choices. Windows is the "gamer" and "corporate" choice. MacOS is the "student" and "luxury" choice. Linux is the "hacker" choice (they use Arch, by the way). Like iOS vs Android, Xbox vs PlayStation, Toyota vs BMW, and all other brand tribalisms, it seems like most people are emotionally drawn to one or another.
twosdai
System 76 makes a great product in this space honestly. I always recommend them to people who are interested in trying linux. They ship with linux pre-installed, its exactly like buying a dell with windows.
I am not affliated with them, I am a customer and I like their products.
astrolx
This. I bought a System76 laptop in 2011 which is still working very well with lubuntu for office and browser and such, it's now the laptop of my neighbourhood association. I could without problem upgrade RAM and drive to SSD, I could even swap the keyboard after I broke it.
I bought a new one from them this year, still incredible hardware.
My only issue with them, which is a big one, is that they ship only from USA. So as EU customer I have to pay VAT on top!
nicholasjarnold
I concur. I own a System 76 laptop, and it runs PopOS. It's been stable for years (taking the regular updates). They make a variety of hardware products ranging from portable/lightweight laptop to beefy engineering workstation.
(also not affiliated with them, just want to support good products/company)
godelski
I agree making ISOs is too cumbersome now. But I think the install is 90% there. Realistically hiding options under an advanced menu would make it no different than when you first get a windows or Mac.
Fwiw, you can get it preinstalled on System 76, makers of Pop. I'm a bit surprised Framework doesn't do it. But this seems easy to expand
**
I'm not much of a gamer but will play some AAA and a handful of indie games. Occasional issues like Steam not loading the GUI (right click menu bar and directly open library fixes), and occasionally sync issues because VPN, or minor like needing to launch a game twice. But FWIW, past 3 years I've never needed to touch proton. I'm really hoping SteamOS gets a broader release soon. I'm not sure if I can help much here but I do know graphics cards which might help?
I'll definitely agree UI/UX in many apps needs major improvements. I've seen a trend in the right direction though. Alongside the same improvements in OS. We need people to realize that your backend doesn't matter if people can't use it. Design is hard. The magic is the interaction between awesome backend and awesome design. I think this philosophy is growing. Hopefully. Momentum appears to be building
neogodless
Appreciate it but this was like 18 months ago, on a Lenovo Legion 5 which I've since sold to my niece. Main issue was brightness - basically having to reboot Linux twice to get it to work. Once to switch GPU mode and once to select a kernel because it would often fail to boot for some reason until I went through that. I don't remember the details too well - I documented some here: https://retorch.com/blog/linux-mint.htm
Linux Mint w/ KDE for most of the two month period.
Nowadays like 95% of my gaming is Digital Board Games on Steam which I'm mostly quite sure would run fine on Linux. Anno 1800 was one of the rare instances of LAN multiplayer which is rare in games these days and poorly supported.
When I'm really active sometimes as a group we'll start a new Survival game together, and it's nice when you can be involved. Games like Valheim run awesome on Linux, and I had no issues with Conan, ARK, etc. Occasionally a game isn't supported and that's when it's a bummer.
Peacefulz
One of the driving forces of my full windows exodus was Recall. I knew they wouldn't seriously scrap the project. Glad to see measures are being taken to avoid the spies. Shame it comes to DRM though.
neilv
Yours is the real solution. What Signal did is a temporary kludge around the underlying problems, which include that Microsoft is hostile towards customers and users whenever it thinks it can get away with it.
Also, as you get into mechanisms like DRM, which treat the owner and user of the device as adversaries, you make it harder to detect when the device or something on it is misbehaving against the interests of the owner/user (such as for secret surveillance).
mistrial9
> Microsoft is hostile towards customers and users
MSFT is implementing hierarchical control and monitoring on their desktop computers. Executive branch, legal and finance are the drivers. Users are serfs.
godelski
I mean what else can signal do? You can't win against whoever controls the OS or hardware. They have effective absolute power. They do have to treat the "owner" as an adversary because companies like Microsoft make claim that they are the owner, not the user.
bilbo0s
From a security perspective, you shouldn't be using anything you don't control from the bottom up. That includes Windows and Signal. Full stop.
But in a pragmatic world, we can't have that level of security. You're reduced to deciding where you are willing to tolerate the security weaknesses. Obviously, no software or hardware will be 100% secure. But absent having an existential state level need to roll your own, you just have to pick from what's out there and accept that none of it is fully secure.
fsflover
> I mean what else can signal do?
How about allowing us to run it on hardware that we can control: GNU/Linux desktop and phones, without requiring a connection from Android?
contact9879
it is absolutely insane that we're forced to DRM our own applications to protect ourselves from our own computers
baby_souffle
Agreed. Reading this makes my head explode a little.
15 years ago, DRM was all about the DVD restricting where and when it could be played. Now it seems like we're using DRM to reassert our own rights?
This timeline is cursed.
gruez
It's not even real DRM in any meaningful sense. It's just asking the OS really nicely to not allow the window to be screenshotted.
contextfree
I think there was always a similarity or homology between DRM and many privacy scenarios that people care about:
Party A sends information to party B intended for use in a specific context, but wants to limit the risk of it being stored or forwarded for use by other parties or in other contexts.
DRM typically connotes that party A is a media company and the information is a movie or something, but - as in the case the article is about - party A could also just be a regular person and the information could be private personal info.
mmcnl
No, you can just turn Recall off. You don't need DRM for that.
lenkite
Go back 10 years and tell people that MS periodically takes screenshots of your apps and sends them to MS and there would be heavy lawsuits.
AI has made people idiots in more ways than expected.
xp84
They're "Sending them to MS"? Huh?
kristofferR
Well, it's not so much our own computers we need to worry about, it's more computers we think of as ours, but we actually borrow from our school/work.
Windows Recall would be a pretty good feature if it somehow only worked for real personal computers.
TiredOfLife
It is absolutely insane that FUD and misinformation is the default now.
enfuse
[dead]
plingbang
Fighting with the OS is futile. The OS is always in control and apps can only ask it nicely to do things.
Microsoft can simply change Recall to capture DRM-marked content too. And to avoid copyright issues, it will store some kind of visual summary (or whaterer the neural network can use) instead of plain screenshots like it is doing now.
fdlaks
Can't wait for the day when I can have my gaming PC be on a Linux based OS, thats really the only reason I have it at all
WD-42
It’s really come to this? As if accepting the 4 different data sharing Eulas required to install windows wasn’t enough, now apps need to DRM themselves…
k__
I'd presume, this is a logical conclusion of trusting trust.
The moment you don't build your own device, TEE with provable encrypted executions or FHE is the only way to run reasonably secure apps.
habitue
Continue to be happy to have deleted windows from all my computers, including for gaming. There are issues with closed source OSs in general, but microsoft has continually shown that they make bad decisions and just aren't trustworthy.
vladms
Gaming on Linux using steam works great for me. There are more games than I have time to play and I don't even need to worry how they work (emulation vs native) as I had to do many years ago.
kiririn
It's nice to see them add an option to disable this behaviour, now if only we could get an option to include Signal messages in iOS backups...
hedora
Yeah; the lack of backup support is getting really old. I was hoping the article meant that you could optionally set it to recall your chat history across backup/restore.
iOS <-> Android account migration would also be good.
I last used Windows in the Windows 8 days. That was when they added the telemetry "feature" that lets MS engineers copy files off your box without your permission (and without notifying you).
At the time, they claimed it's only for debugging software failures, and even then, only with managerial approval. My reading of the US CLOUD Act says they're obligated to let the US gov't copy arbitrary data off your machine, regardless of what country it's in.
I'm not sure if they still do it. The documentation of this stuff is well-buried.
Microsoft really seems out of control. Yesterday I noticed that OneDrive was turned on automatically (I've always been very clear about not turning it on). Which was incredibly shocking to me, that they'd just turn on uploading my data to the cloud on the sly. And of course, it's nearly impossible to turn off Edge loading things. I'm really on the verge of switching to Linux, it's getting too awful